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Old 02-09-2013, 12:25 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
No one else is concerned that Dion Jordan is going to show up underweight at the combine, 240# or less?

I hope he's putting on weight now because at Oregon I read he frequently played at under 230#.
I'm not concerned about Derrick Harvey, II.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
No one else is concerned that Dion Jordan is going to show up underweight at the combine, 240# or less?

I hope he's putting on weight now because at Oregon I read he frequently played at under 230#.
Im not concerned about his weight because I think he can play multiple positions/schemes. It's not like he is stuck as a 3-4 OLB only and therefore ridiculously undersized if he comes in at 235. He will certainly need to gain weight and get stronger at the next level, but his frame can hold it. Personally I think he could be an awesome OLB in a 4-3 scheme that uses a lot of blitzes and different looks. He is very good in coverage, and could actually shut down tight ends like Graham and Gronkowski, but also has the freakish athleticism to become a beast rushing the passer. He really could be an innovative DC's wet dream.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:53 AM    (permalink
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I really think Kevin Minter goes higher than what people think. And Sheldon Richardson will go top 10.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Mike Glennon anyone...? Not a bad time for him to be compared to Flacco..
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I'd say Fisher has already moved up into contention as a top 5 pick from the middle of round 1 and Richardson is the other most likely to make a move. He is a great athlete and a solid pass rusher and could go ahead of Lotulelie who takes a lot of plays off.
I don't see anyone else making that kind of a move except perehaps a couple of QB's who get pushed up by need but don't really deserve to get drafted that high.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Im thinking Xavier Rhodes, he just looks the part so much....ive been waiting for him to come out for years now, not quite the college player i was expecting but still good and an excellent prospect

Vaccaro too, but this safety class is stranged...i think the safeties can be ranked many different ways, i could even see amerson being the top FS but theres a lot to like about vaccaro, reid, elam, mcdonald
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I think this is a strong safety class personally.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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Mel Kiper suggested this morning that Jonathan Cooper could be a Top 4-6 pick...He's a phenomenal player and would be the talk of the guards if not for Chance Warmack, but I can't see a guard going so high
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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We'll get a clear picture after the combine.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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Ansah seems like a cop out answer. Who in their right mind doesn't think he'll be a top ten pick?
he very well could be... but the devils advocate position is he won't run as quick as some others (i'd bet money Mingo runs faster. Jordan too probably).

Ansah might project best as a hand in the dirt 4-3 DE or 3-4 DE if/when he bulks up, he might be more of a Quinton Coples pick than a Von Miller pick.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
No one else is concerned that Dion Jordan is going to show up underweight at the combine, 240# or less?

I hope he's putting on weight now because at Oregon I read he frequently played at under 230#.
That is my concern with Mingo, actually.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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I'm not concerned about Derrick Harvey, II.

HAHA, that is gold! I agree completely. He looks like he could be bent backwards in half by Deion Branch. His whole body looked like Merton Hank's neck when he went all chicken-like.

I made that same comparison last week and a buddy at work goes, 'wasn't he on NPR or something?'


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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
That is my concern with Mingo, actually.
Mingo is much more aggressive and explosive. Jordan plays a path of least resistance kind of game. Mingo is not that way at all. Jordan looks like a guy who's trying to figure out where the flag is attached.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Mel Kiper suggested this morning that Jonathan Cooper could be a Top 4-6 pick...He's a phenomenal player and would be the talk of the guards if not for Chance Warmack, but I can't see a guard going so high
I'm pretty sure that's just a "hey, listen to me!" ploy.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Mingo is much more aggressive and explosive. Jordan plays a path of least resistance kind of game. Mingo is not that way at all. Jordan looks like a guy who's trying to figure out where the flag is attached.
I was referring to the weight issue, not playing style.

I think Jordan does play tentative sometimes, but it might be based more on all the things going on in his head. He won't be asked to do all things in the NFL that he did at Oregon.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Mel Kiper suggested this morning that Jonathan Cooper could be a Top 4-6 pick...He's a phenomenal player and would be the talk of the guards if not for Chance Warmack, but I can't see a guard going so high
Kiper's a hack. He no longer is working to be credible, he's working to stay relevant.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Kiper's pretty solid. You just have to get clicks with the early mocks and rankings. Its his job. He usually has some good stuff through the process and is pretty good by the end. He was up on a few guys last year, like Wolfe for exampe.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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I'm not concerned about Derrick Harvey, II.

What am I missing here? Wasn't Harvey 270ish at the combine? I do not get the comparison to undersized DEs.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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he very well could be... but the devils advocate position is he won't run as quick as some others (i'd bet money Mingo runs faster. Jordan too probably).

Ansah might project best as a hand in the dirt 4-3 DE or 3-4 DE if/when he bulks up, he might be more of a Quinton Coples pick than a Von Miller pick.
LOL, you mean two guys who weight at least 30 pounds less than him? Oh yeah, that knocks him out of the top ten.

What's this talk of Ansah "bulking up?" Ansah would be a complete waste as a 3-4 DE! And he was never a Von Miller pick. Von Miller is not 6'5" and 270 pounds. He is a 4-3 DE, a JPP type.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Kiper's pretty solid. You just have to get clicks with the early mocks and rankings. Its his job. He usually has some good stuff through the process and is pretty good by the end. He was up on a few guys last year, like Wolfe for exampe.
Yeah, he helped to severely over rate Wolf if that's what you mean. Kiper is no longer credible. Jimmy Clausen anyone?

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Old 02-15-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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What am I missing here? Wasn't Harvey 270ish at the combine? I do not get the comparison to undersized DEs.
I wasn't comparing them in terms of size so much as the fact that I think Jordan is incredibly overrated, ei the next Harvey. The one physical comparison I would make is they are both long lanky types that didn't put up much fight in the trenches.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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I see Mingo as more of an Aaron Maybin clone, Jordan needs to answer weight and injury questions before top 10 but thh epotantial is there. Ansah is a given but much more raw than JPP was

Ogletree - Will test off the roof at the combine, a 3-down MLB can play strong and weak as well. Bills or the Jets could give long looks, not sure he gets past Tampa Bay

Sharif Floyd - I do see what scouts love about him, rmeinds me of Fletcher Cox but more versatile. Think he can go as high as 3 to Oakland but see him more in the 10-15 unless there is a trade up, teams like Titans/Panthers/Cowboys could trade up or sit tight for him.

Patterson/Hopkins - Again, these 2 will have sick numbers across the board. Can see Browns/Bills/Jets/Chargers/Dolphins all trying to get these 2, both should go top 15 with 1 in the top 10.

OL - There could be 6 OL in the top 15 if teams bypass Defense. plenty of teams needing both OT's and OG's. FA should help minimize the field. Chiefs/Eagles/Lions/Browns/Cards/Jets/Titans/Chargers/Miami are all top 15 teams that could go lineman.

Michael Buchanan - Not top 15, not 1st round but I think some 34 team will love him in the top 50, should blow up the combine

Greene/Brown - both WLB should test great and both in round 2

Vaccaro - Most complete safety with tape and measurements, deep class will hurt him but top rated safties go high. Last few years has been bad....Love this class, 4 rounds deep IMO but Vaccaro depending on combine could go as high as #4 to Philly; Lions/Browns/Bills/Jets/Titans will look at im as well, not sure he gets past 16 to Rams, imo I think he goes top 10.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RWills View Post
I see Mingo as more of an Aaron Maybin clone, Jordan needs to answer weight and injury questions before top 10 but thh epotantial is there. Ansah is a given but much more raw than JPP was

Ogletree - Will test off the roof at the combine, a 3-down MLB can play strong and weak as well. Bills or the Jets could give long looks, not sure he gets past Tampa Bay

Sharif Floyd - I do see what scouts love about him, rmeinds me of Fletcher Cox but more versatile. Think he can go as high as 3 to Oakland but see him more in the 10-15 unless there is a trade up, teams like Titans/Panthers/Cowboys could trade up or sit tight for him.

Patterson/Hopkins - Again, these 2 will have sick numbers across the board. Can see Browns/Bills/Jets/Chargers/Dolphins all trying to get these 2, both should go top 15 with 1 in the top 10.

OL - There could be 6 OL in the top 15 if teams bypass Defense. plenty of teams needing both OT's and OG's. FA should help minimize the field. Chiefs/Eagles/Lions/Browns/Cards/Jets/Titans/Chargers/Miami are all top 15 teams that could go lineman.

Michael Buchanan - Not top 15, not 1st round but I think some 34 team will love him in the top 50, should blow up the combine

Greene/Brown - both WLB should test great and both in round 2

Vaccaro - Most complete safety with tape and measurements, deep class will hurt him but top rated safties go high. Last few years has been bad....Love this class, 4 rounds deep IMO but Vaccaro depending on combine could go as high as #4 to Philly; Lions/Browns/Bills/Jets/Titans will look at im as well, not sure he gets past 16 to Rams, imo I think he goes top 10.
Floyd is NOT going to Oakland! No one said anything of the sort until that uninformed newbie at ESPN mocked him to us.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
killxswitch
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I don't see the Floyd/Cox comparison at all. Cox was the superior player and prospect.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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I mean I dont mean to be negative towards the original thread maker because I'm not even really directing it towards him but I highly doubt outside of maybe QB that players "rise" into the top 10. I think this is a huge myth that bloggers and people who do mock drafts believe. I believe that scouts and personnel men have probably had a Stephon Gilmore as a top 15 prospect the whole time and only do slight adjustments based on the combine and senior bowl. I think that is a disconnect between the people who really do it and the bloggers. As more information leaks, and more information gets to the bloggers they all of a sudden "rise" up the boards and people start going well what did this guy do to get that high up. The truth is he was always that high up but it takes the internet people to catch up because they are behind on the info.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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I mean I dont mean to be negative towards the original thread maker because I'm not even really directing it towards him but I highly doubt outside of maybe QB that players "rise" into the top 10. I think this is a huge myth that bloggers and people who do mock drafts believe. I believe that scouts and personnel men have probably had a Stephon Gilmore as a top 15 prospect the whole time and only do slight adjustments based on the combine and senior bowl. I think that is a disconnect between the people who really do it and the bloggers. As more information leaks, and more information gets to the bloggers they all of a sudden "rise" up the boards and people start going well what did this guy do to get that high up. The truth is he was always that high up but it takes the internet people to catch up because they are behind on the info.
I disagree. I think often a guy who has a good combine, workout of finish to his final college season starts go garner more attention, causing scouts to go back to the tape. Guys like Andrew Luck or Matt Kalil have been heavily scouted for years, where as Gilmore was a bit late making a big name for himself. "Internet people", at least the bigger names, usually have a lot of connections in NFL front offices. That doesn't mean GMs are sharing their exact board with them or telling them the truth 100%, but you can usually gauge about where a guy is graded at the least.
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