The Kansas City Chiefs Select...

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by princefielder28

As prospects they're actually quite similar. It's reported that Andy Reid and Doug Pederson really like Foles skill set and what his potential may bring. Nick Foles brings less of a price tag in term of draft pick, salary number and the decision makers in Kansas City know upfront what Foles can do.

I'm talking about their actual play. There's no way you scout both these guys and rate Smith and Foles as similar prospects. Geno Smith did absolutely everything at the collegiate level better than Foles.

Bottom line, if the Chiefs rate Geno Smith as their #1 QB prospect and they somehow don't get him, I think Reid has at most 3 years in KC before he either has to have the Chiefs challenging for the playoffs or he's going to be fired.

When your team lacks a QB and your GM/HC fills the position with JAG signal callers instead of drafting the top prospect at the position, if the FA gamble doesn't pan out IMO you're asking to be fired.

[princefielder28]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I'm talking about their actual play. There's no way you scout both these guys and rate Smith and Foles as similar prospects. Geno Smith did absolutely everything at the collegiate level better than Foles.

That's an ignorant comment of Smith's actual play. Both players operate well in the quick, short passing game and have their moments in the intermediate level as well. In terms of arm strength, each have an above average arm but nothing you'd characterize as special. Each has a tendency to get flat-footed and have issues with pressure in their face. Neither player was a model of consistency and each had some impressive moments while other moments leaving you scratching your head. Smith is more athletic, but clearly is no threat to be one of the running QBs in the league.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by princefielder28

That's an ignorant comment of Smith's actual play. Both players operate well in the quick, short passing game and have their moments in the intermediate level as well. In terms of arm strength, each have an above average arm but nothing you'd characterize as special. Each has a tendency to get flat-footed and have issues with pressure in their face. Neither player was a model of consistency and each had some impressive moments while other moments leaving you scratching your head. Smith is more athletic, but clearly is no threat to be one of the running QBs in the league.

You're a Pac 12 fan. You saw Foles at Arizona. The man had stretches in almost every game in college when his brain shut off.

Again I'm talking about their actual game film in college.
Geno's low points were never as low as Foles' were, and Smith's high points were several degrees greater than anything Foles ever did at Arizona.

It's just lazy revisionist thinking to call Foles and Geno Smith similar NFL prospects.

I just don't think Reid can really afford to make a deal for Foles and pass on Geno Smith.
This is the same HC who took Donovan McNabb 2nd overall and both players IMO are top 10 prospects, in which case you have to take Geno Smith.

[princefielder28]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

You're a Pac 12 fan. You saw Foles at Arizona. The man had stretches in almost every game in college when his brain shut off.

Again I'm talking about their actual game film in college.
Geno's low points were never as low as Foles' were, and Smith's high points were several degrees greater than anything Foles ever did at Arizona.

It's just lazy revisionist thinking to call Foles and Geno Smith similar NFL prospects.

I just don't think Reid can really afford to make a deal for Foles and pass on Geno Smith.
This is the same HC who took Donovan McNabb 2nd overall and both players IMO are top 10 prospects, in which case you have to take Geno Smith.

Just for clarification, I'm a Big Ten fan (usually what happens when you're from Green Bay). I will admit that Smith's high points were slightly higher than Foles, but the argument can be made that Smith's low points were even lower than Nick's, especially when you consider the level of talent surrounding each player. It's not revisionist history when comparing these two, and it's an insult to McNabb to compare the two's abilities.

[Brothgar]

Is it just me or is Geno Smith getting hated on much like Cam Newton did?

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by princefielder28

Just for clarification, I'm a Big Ten fan (usually what happens when you're from Green Bay). I will admit that Smith's high points were slightly higher than Foles, but the argument can be made that Smith's low points were even lower than Nick's, especially when you consider the level of talent surrounding each player. It's not revisionist history when comparing these two, and it's an insult to McNabb to compare the two's abilities.

Wait wait wait, I have agreed with much of what you said so far. I do think they are similar, but Smith is clearly better coming out. But comparing Foles to Smith's low points is utterly ridiculous. You probably need to think about that statement for a minute. Smith threw 42 TDs and 6 INTs FOR THE YEAR. No, his lows weren't lower than Foles who had inexplicable stretches when he forgot how to play QB.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Brothgar

Is it just me or is Geno Smith getting hated on much like Cam Newton did?

No, it's not just you. These same clowns in the media who refuse to endorse Smith loved scrubs like Locker, Sanchez, Clauson, etc.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by vidae

That's what I want from our starting QB: a "functional starter"...

You make less and less sense with every post you make.

a functional starter is better than a bust.

for those comparing Geno and Nick, keep in mind the last time we saw Geno he was getting spanked by Syracuse. Nick has film against NFL teams and looked decent. Geno has never faced a team like the 7 or 8 that Nick faced last year. so they aren't comparable. We can't go back into a time machine and just evaluate Nick at UA.

FYI now eagles saying it's gonna be a "big time deal" to get Foles. I think that's posturing and it will probably take the 34 pick. Chip has no use for Foles in his offense.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...eep-nick-foles

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Brothgar

Is it just me or is Geno Smith getting hated on much like Cam Newton did?

Cam has natural gifts that are rare. There's nothing physically rare about Geno Smith. He's a normal looking dude who's gonna run a 4.9. Cam was a RB in a TE's body playing QB.

[princefielder28]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Wait wait wait, I have agreed with much of what you said so far. I do think they are similar, but Smith is clearly better coming out. But comparing Foles to Smith's low points is utterly ridiculous. You probably need to think about that statement for a minute. Smith threw 42 TDs and 6 INTs FOR THE YEAR. No, his lows weren't lower than Foles who had inexplicable stretches when he forgot how to play QB.

Did you watch the Kansas State, Texas Tech and Syracuse games this year? Geno looked terrible. I know the Syracuse game had weather involved, but teams that play outdoors always face the potential to play in bad weather.

[vidae]

There is no way the Chiefs should give up 34 for Foles. That is flat out lunacy.

[Cudders]

It’s going to come down to pre-draft interviews. It’s not the boldest or sexiest answer, but it’s the truth. Geno’s performance in those situations will set his stock’s ceiling.

Drafts can’t be dissected in vacuums. Each class is unique and each team drafting number one overall operates under different circumstances. Taking Geno with the first overall pick isn’t a direct comparison to Andrew Luck or Matthew Stafford because prospects of that caliber aren’t going to be found in this draft. The Chiefs finished 2-14 because of horrific quarterbacking and failure to reverse a rotten start. It’s the biggest upgrade that can be made to their football team. There are impact offensive and defensive pieces that dot the rest of that roster. At this point, there isn’t a single starting quarterback, so Geno warrants legitimate consideration. Teams would be foolish to neglect a possible long-term solution at the most important position in the game.

That’s where interviews factor into the equation. Geno’s game has blemishes. He’s not a proficient frontside-to-backside passer. His transitional footwork needs to be corrected. He needs to reprogram parts of his pressure game. Yet, despite those deficiencies, he’s still got positive qualities. He’s athletic. That can be a crutch in terms of reprogramming his pressure game. Even if he struggles with proactive pocket presence, he’s got an elevated reactive level. He’s got some impressive arm talent. That’s an NFL benchmark. According to reports, he’s a student of the game with a diligent work ethic. Those are two tremendous traits. And, if we’re evaluating his decision-making process and progressions, he’s shown encouraging potential in that department at West Virginia. A lot of their scheme is based on supplemental route combinations on one side of the field. (Not uncommon in college.) Within the framework of his offense, which is what we have to evaluate, Geno proved to be capable and smart. That would suggest he might not be incapable of progressing to peripheral reads and developing into a fluid frontside-to-backside passer. He just might not have been drilled or trained to do that considering the coaching constraints of the college game. Plus, his work ethic is a big-time bonus. Coaches want quarterbacks that push themselves as hard as the staff does. Since so much of the position is mental, it’s almost required. Not to mention, correcting mechanical errors isn’t simple. It’s an exercise that demands diligence.


Given the information we’ve heard, the potential exists for Geno to impress in interviews. If he demonstrates a strong command of concepts he’s familiar with, and an aptitude for learning components of unfamiliar ones in a short window, then he’s a serious contender for the Chiefs’ choice. A good quarterback is worth more than a dominant left tackle, defensive lineman, or cornerback. Reid is an experienced quarterback coach and knows how to maximize production at that position while minimizing flaws. It would be a great landing spot for Geno.

That said, if there isn’t a connection or spark between Reid and Geno, I don’t think the former is afraid of passing on him. Geno’s game isn’t overwhelming. The intangible package is the mitigating factor. If Reid isn’t confident that his intangibles offset his weaknesses and doubts his functional upside, then the Chiefs will steer their team in a different direction. Whether it’s bringing in Alex Smith or Nick Foles, quarterback needs upgraded.

At that point, I believe Star becomes the favorite. Right now, Luke Joeckel isn’t an option to me. Joeckel could be an economic alternative to Brandon Albert, but that’s assuming Albert demands a contract that’s disproportionate to his actual value and gets it from another team. The Chiefs have a good pair of bookend tackles in place. You don’t want to make lateral moves at the top of the draft. Dee Milliner is a nonexistent option. I don’t even see top ten value in Milliner. And, if I’m going to “reach”, I’ll reach for the quarterback over the cornerback ten times out of ten. So it’s Star and Geno. I think it’s fair to assume that Star intrigues Reid in a shaded, one-gap role. Reid loves to draft along the trenches and pairing Star with Poe gives the Chiefs surprising suddenness to match their size. That’s an attractive, one-gap duo to build around if the Chiefs want to attack out of their odd-front. But, if I’m part of that Chief contingent, homework needs to be done on Geno first. It comes down to confidence I’ve got in Geno. Though strengthening two areas at once appeals to me, too.

(And, if I’m the Jaguars, I hope the Chiefs take Geno. Star is a scheme-diverse talent and a perfect swing fit in the 4-3 Over/Under mix. Getting more value and a more versatile lineman out of that selection than one of the edge rushers.)

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by princefielder28

Did you watch the Kansas State, Texas Tech and Syracuse games this year? Geno looked terrible. I know the Syracuse game had weather involved, but teams that play outdoors always face the potential to play in bad weather.

yeah it's not like it snows in Kansas City around playoff time or anything

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by vidae

That's what I want from our starting QB: a "functional starter"...

You make less and less sense with every post you make.

literally every time someone makes an actual valid point against him and backs it up, he ignores it and changes the subject. it's quite comical, really.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by bitonti

Cam has natural gifts that are rare. There's nothing physically rare about Geno Smith. He's a normal looking dude who's gonna run a 4.9. Cam was a RB in a TE's body playing QB.

I never got the impression Geno didn't run at WVU because he was slow.
4.9 suggests he really not that mobile outside the pocket. I think Smith runs a couple of tenths faster than that.

Besides the fact remains there were huge detractors against Cam before the 2011 draft. In that sense they are similar prospects.

EDIT: You can easily compare Foles and Smith as PRO PROSPECTS. It doesn't take going into a time machine to remember what kind of QB Foles was at Arizona.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Besides the fact remains there were huge detractors against Cam before the 2011 draft. In that sense they are similar prospects.

the cam detractors were so because he stole a laptop or his dad took money or whatever. No one disputed how rare he was as a player. Geno isn't that rare. in another year he's a late 1, 3rd QB off the board. It's just a weak year at the top end and that's pushing him up too high. at 20 or 30 I have no problem with a team picking Geno. At 1 it's a criminal reach.

[bitonti]

double post

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by bitonti

the cam detractors were so because he stole a laptop or his dad took money or whatever. No one disputed how rare he was as a player. Geno isn't that rare. in another year he's a late 1, 3rd QB off the board. It's just a weak year at the top end and that's pushing him up too high. at 20 or 30 I have no problem with a team picking Geno. At 1 it's a criminal reach.

There were more question thatn just the off the field stuff with Cam which were answered. Also, what' the difference between taking Smith #1 and #15? Either way, he is going to be expected to start. You act like he isn't better than Christian Ponder and Jake Locker.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

literally every time someone makes an actual valid point against him and backs it up, he ignores it and changes the subject. it's quite comical, really.

people make valid points. I got those. KC needs a QB. Geno is the best QB of this class. Fair enough. Not sure how that adds up to taking a guy most people have ranked in the 10s or 20s at 1 overall. My problem isn't with Geno the prospect, my problem is he's being overdrafted that high. he's not a star or joekel level prospect. the fact that he's a QB can push him up from 30 to 20 or 20 to 15... but it shouldn't push him up to 1.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

There were more question thatn just the off the field stuff with Cam which were answered. Also, what' the difference between taking Smith #1 and #15? Either way, he is going to be expected to start. You act like he isn't better than Christian Ponder and Jake Locker.

those guys went to the Senior Bowl and made people believe in them. They also had statement wins in college. The last time we saw Geno he was making snow angels for safeties. His best game was against Baylor.

if Geno goes to Indy and throws awesome, he can PROVE he's worth a really high pick. That would be a true test because it won't be his WR and it won't be highly scripted. I am encouraged by his decision to throw.

Right now, I don't think he's proven it.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by bitonti

those guys went to the Senior Bowl and made people believe in them. They also had statement wins in college. The last time we saw Geno he was making snow angels for safeties. His best game was against Baylor.

if Geno goes to Indy and throws awesome, he can PROVE he's worth a really high pick. That would be a true test because it won't be his WR and it won't be highly scripted. I am encouraged by his decision to throw.

Right now, I don't think he's proven it.

Four years of college tape on the guy and the most impressive thing Geno SMith can do for you is THROW at the combine??

If you must see Geno throw at Indy to evaluate his pro potential, he shouldn't be a draft consideration for your franchise at all.

And Smith was more impressive in the 4th quarter against Oklahoma than he was for most of his game against Baylor.
The best game of his career was against Clemson in the Orange Bowl last year.

[Nastradamus]

Geno ranks behind the elite QBs of late, including Cam as well as Luck and Griffin. I'd put him ahead of Tannehill,Locker,Ponder,Gabbert(he was a tough one to grade though IMO),Weeden and Dalton. At worst slightly behind Tannehill and Locker. I think if you are KC, you have to take a Locker or Tannehill at #1, even if its a bit of a reach and you rank those guys maybe, 10th or 12th overall.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Four years of college tape on the guy and the most impressive thing Geno SMith can do for you is THROW at the combine??

If you must see Geno throw at Indy to evaluate his pro potential, he shouldn't be a draft consideration for your franchise at all.

And Smith was more impressive in the 4th quarter against Oklahoma than he was for most of his game against Baylor.
The best game of his career was against Clemson in the Orange Bowl last year.

yeah and he looked like hot garbage in a half dozen other games. If Geno played every game like he played against Clemson, he's a clear 1 choice and it's not an issue.

[Scotty D]

I think it'll be interesting to watch Reid's level of infatuation for Foles. He could push hard for KC to bring him in or just move on if the price is too high.

[vidae]

The Eagles said it would take a "major" deal to move Foles, and he isn't worth a major deal, so I doubt anything happens. Giving up anything more than a 4th or 5th for him would piss me off.