New Orleans Saints Draft thread - Page 64

zachsaints52 · 02-10-2013, 10:27 AM

T.J. McDonald is my dude. I want him in the 3rd.

diabsoule · 02-12-2013, 07:03 PM

The more I think about the Saints switch to the 3-4, the more I think we need to take a nose tackle in the first round if Dion Jordan isn't there.

I listened to an interview today with Sean Payton describe what he wanted out of his defense it sounded like they were switching to a 1 gap 3-4. If that's the case then build your defense from the inside out by drafting possibly the best NT in the draft in John Jenkins.

He had a pretty damn good Senior Bowl, is a force in the middle, and has experience playing in a 3-4 at UGA. Plus, if Rob Ryan wanted to have multiple looks he could stay on the field a la Norman Hand/Grady Jackson (horrible examples I know).

That's my line of thought at least. I'd rather Dion Jordan if he fell but the rest of the OLB prospects have too many question marks and I'd rather not risk hoping that one of the other NT's prospects falls to us in the later rounds.

wicket · 02-12-2013, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule

The more I think about the Saints switch to the 3-4, the more I think we need to take a nose tackle in the first round if Dion Jordan isn't there.

I listened to an interview today with Sean Payton describe what he wanted out of his defense it sounded like they were switching to a 1 gap 3-4. If that's the case then build your defense from the inside out by drafting possibly the best NT in the draft in John Jenkins.

He had a pretty damn good Senior Bowl, is a force in the middle, and has experience playing in a 3-4 at UGA. Plus, if Rob Ryan wanted to have multiple looks he could stay on the field a la Norman Hand/Grady Jackson (horrible examples I know).

That's my line of thought at least. I'd rather Dion Jordan if he fell but the rest of the OLB prospects have too many question marks and I'd rather not risk hoping that one of the other NT's prospects falls to us in the later rounds.

well i dont agree with jenkins being the #1 nose tackle so that makes that discussion a bit harder. Drafting Jenkins specifically would be a huge reach to me. I do however get where your coming from and a NT is my second option if the board at OLB is bad

Naga114 · 02-13-2013, 06:20 AM

What about Hankins of Ohio State ? Can he play NT ?

Saints-Tigers · 02-13-2013, 04:49 PM

Taking Te'O would be a very Ingram-esque move. We'd have better players at his position, it isn't a position of need, and isn't even a luxury pick because he wouldn't be the best player available, nor can we afford luxuries.

I would bet most of the people on the draft Te'O wagon also wanted Ingram.

zachsaints52 · 02-14-2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

Taking Te'O would be a very Ingram-esque move. We'd have better players at his position, it isn't a position of need, and isn't even a luxury pick because he wouldn't be the best player available, nor can we afford luxuries.

I would bet most of the people on the draft Te'O wagon also wanted Ingram.

Actually, I think I am the only one on the Te'o bandwagon, and I know I didn't want Ingram. If you think Hawthorne is better than Te'o at the 3-4, its your opinion. But I believe in building up the middle, and Te'o to me makes our middle a lot better.

CJSchneider · 02-14-2013, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

Taking Te'O would be a very Ingram-esque move. We'd have better players at his position, it isn't a position of need, and isn't even a luxury pick because he wouldn't be the best player available, nor can we afford luxuries.

I would bet most of the people on the draft Te'O wagon also wanted Ingram.

I wasn't pissed initially at the Ingram pick, but I feel a Te'O pick at the expensive of an OLB wouldn't e the best move for us.

wicket · 02-14-2013, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

Taking Te'O would be a very Ingram-esque move. We'd have better players at his position, it isn't a position of need, and isn't even a luxury pick because he wouldn't be the best player available, nor can we afford luxuries.

I would bet most of the people on the draft Te'O wagon also wanted Ingram.

I see the comparison but there are big differences between the two picks

1 Ingram was perceived a need by many because of a ridiculous rush of injuries at the same position the season before
2 Ingram was a terrible fit as his skillset does not fit our offense nor will it ever fit our offense
3 Bluntly put, Ingram was offense, Teo is defense
4 In Ryan system MLB is an important position, RB is the least important starting position of the 22 starters alltogether in our system as they are highly interchangable
5 In Ingrams year we did have money to spend in free agency so a luxury pick was less of an issue i guess

Not saying that these reasons make a Teo pick better than the Ingram pick or vice versa but i was flat out disgusted, as many remember, by the ingram pick and ill stand by my statement then, no matter how he turns out, when you look at the basic decision (talent level, fit, value, need) the ingram draftchoice is the worst draftchoice in the last 8 years. There are those who turned out worse but in many of those situations its bad luck or a player not playing up to their ability, not a conceptually flawed decision.

Teo on the other hand would be a pick i wouldnt like but i could like with it. He does fit our defense perfectly. He brings a ton of emotion (sometimes misplaced towards fake internet persona) to the team. Can lead this team and quite frankly, can play all downs.

That being said we are looking at a ton of position on D where we need new starters and MLB is not one of em so if a guy like Jones or Mingo is there you have to pick them imo but i do believe that Teo is a top 10 pick. Keep in mind that i do think the bama game has driven people off his bandwagon more than should be considered fair given the circumstances.

zachsaints52 · 02-14-2013, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket

I see the comparison but there are big differences between the two picks

1 Ingram was perceived a need by many because of a ridiculous rush of injuries at the same position the season before
2 Ingram was a terrible fit as his skillset does not fit our offense nor will it ever fit our offense
3 Bluntly put, Ingram was offense, Teo is defense
4 In Ryan system MLB is an important position, RB is the least important starting position of the 22 starters alltogether in our system as they are highly interchangable
5 In Ingrams year we did have money to spend in free agency so a luxury pick was less of an issue i guess

Not saying that these reasons make a Teo pick better than the Ingram pick or vice versa but i was flat out disgusted, as many remember, by the ingram pick and ill stand by my statement then, no matter how he turns out, when you look at the basic decision (talent level, fit, value, need) the ingram draftchoice is the worst draftchoice in the last 8 years. There are those who turned out worse but in many of those situations its bad luck or a player not playing up to their ability, not a conceptually flawed decision.

Teo on the other hand would be a pick i wouldnt like but i could like with it. He does fit our defense perfectly. He brings a ton of emotion (sometimes misplaced towards fake internet persona) to the team. Can lead this team and quite frankly, can play all downs.

That being said we are looking at a ton of position on D where we need new starters and MLB is not one of em so if a guy like Jones or Mingo is there you have to pick them imo but i do believe that Teo is a top 10 pick. Keep in mind that i do think the bama game has driven people off his bandwagon more than should be considered fair given the circumstances.

I believe this is the main thing that happened. Plus, I am not sold on Hawthorne personally.

Plus, if we have Lofton and Hawthorne in the MLB position, thats two 6' guys up the middle. Don't we need some size as well? Hawthorne was known his first few years as one of the better special team guys, let him do damage again there or try for outside. I think he has speed?

aregand · 02-14-2013, 04:15 PM

I don't think ILB is greatest need however I think our Defense is more than a one year turnaround project. New coach, 3-4 scheme and personnel issues after one of the worst defenses of ALL TIME. I would love a Ray Lewis/ Patrick Willis / Urlacher type leading our D the next 15 years. If Teo can be that guy potentially even after trading down I would be happy with that. He might come in with a huge chip on his shoulder after the way his season ended.

All the 1st round DE prospects scare me for various reasons esp. the ones that haven't played OLB in 3-4. I like LBs Jarvis Jones or Ogletree better than most of them. I don't want to get locked into taking a one dimensional DE prospect in the first round. Free Agency not an option this year. Trade Ingram / Ivory and get some more picks Mickey!

diabsoule · 02-14-2013, 11:50 PM

So after reading up on this guy and watching some highlights (a breakdown isn't up), one guy I want is Shamarko Thomas, S, from Syracuse. The dude is like a more durable, and bigger version of Bob Sanders. He just flies over the field and lays the wood. Go read up on him. Right now he's a projected 6-7 rounder and I'd love to get him in our secondary.

Also, another guy I want is UGA DE Cornelius Washington. He didn't put up great production but he has all the tools to be a very good 3-4 OLB. He has the size, speed, length, athleticism and is a leader. If he can be coached up with his pass rush moves he could really be something special.

And because of those two guys I have updated my mock draft for us:

Round 1: Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma
Round 3: Gavin Escobar, TE, San Diego State
Round 4: Montori Hughes, NT, UT-Martin
Round 5: Cornelius Washington, DE, Georgia
Round 6: Shamarko Thomas, S, Syracuse

CJSchneider · 02-15-2013, 05:30 AM

And your plan to upgrade at OLB is what exactly?

zachsaints52 · 02-15-2013, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aregand

I don't think ILB is greatest need however I think our Defense is more than a one year turnaround project. New coach, 3-4 scheme and personnel issues after one of the worst defenses of ALL TIME. I would love a Ray Lewis/ Patrick Willis / Urlacher type leading our D the next 15 years. If Teo can be that guy potentially even after trading down I would be happy with that. He might come in with a huge chip on his shoulder after the way his season ended.

All the 1st round DE prospects scare me for various reasons esp. the ones that haven't played OLB in 3-4. I like LBs Jarvis Jones or Ogletree better than most of them. I don't want to get locked into taking a one dimensional DE prospect in the first round. Free Agency not an option this year. Trade Ingram / Ivory and get some more picks Mickey!

I agree, if we could get Jarvis Jones by all means get him. But isn't Ogletree a MLB too?

Ivory is a Free Agent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule

So after reading up on this guy and watching some highlights (a breakdown isn't up), one guy I want is Shamarko Thomas, S, from Syracuse. The dude is like a more durable, and bigger version of Bob Sanders. He just flies over the field and lays the wood. Go read up on him. Right now he's a projected 6-7 rounder and I'd love to get him in our secondary.

Also, another guy I want is UGA DE Cornelius Washington. He didn't put up great production but he has all the tools to be a very good 3-4 OLB. He has the size, speed, length, athleticism and is a leader. If he can be coached up with his pass rush moves he could really be something special.

And because of those two guys I have updated my mock draft for us:

Round 1: Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma
Round 3: Gavin Escobar, TE, San Diego State
Round 4: Montori Hughes, NT, UT-Martin
Round 5: Cornelius Washington, DE, Georgia
Round 6: Shamarko Thomas, S, Syracuse

Thats the one thing we need, and we have to teach him it?

diabsoule · 02-15-2013, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJSchneider

And your plan to upgrade at OLB is what exactly?

Cornelius Washington, who is a 3-4 OLB

diabsoule · 02-15-2013, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachsaints52

I agree, if we could get Jarvis Jones by all means get him. But isn't Ogletree a MLB too?

Ivory is a Free Agent.

Thats the one thing we need, and we have to teach him it?

He can get to the QB, he just needs more moves than the 2 that he has (but does very well).

Saints-Tigers · 02-16-2013, 04:26 PM

I think Washington is going to move up a lot after workouts and such.

If Te'O is a Willis/Lewis/Urlacher, by all means, take him with any pick we have. Sadly he doesn't have the athleticism or explosive power to be like any of those guys.

diabsoule · 02-16-2013, 07:42 PM

I'm starting to see more mock drafts that have Lane Johnson available when the Saints pick in round 1. Guys, if that happens I WANT the Saints to draft him. He would easily start at LT for the next ten years and protect Bree's blindside of his next few years and also that of his successor. Basically, plug, play, and forget about LT for the next decade.

He's one of the best LT prospects in this year's draft and I would rather take him in round one considering how heavy the DE/OLB position is this year. Just draft someone like Cornelius Washington, David Bass, Corey Lemonier, Michael Buchanan, or Ty Powell in the mid to late rounds.

wicket · 02-17-2013, 05:01 AM

i hoped eric fisher would fall into our laps but im starting to think its not gonna happen

diabsoule · 02-17-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket

i hoped eric fisher would fall into our laps but im starting to think its not gonna happen

I would jizz in my pants if either Eric Fisher or Lane Johnson fall to the Saints.

aregand · 02-18-2013, 07:54 AM

I had been thinking about OT and warming up to the idea esp. if none of the top 10 defensive guys fall to us -Jarvis Jones come on down. There are quite a few teams behind us that need OL help more than us- Dallas, Chicago. St. Louis and Indy. If he drops to here and those teams have him rated there #1 OT a trade down for their 1st and a 2nd rounder may be another good scenario. We would have to resign Bushrod and will give Brown another year to see if he can contribute.

CJSchneider · 02-18-2013, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aregand

I had been thinking about OT and warming up to the idea esp. if none of the top 10 defensive guys fall to us -Jarvis Jones come on down. There are quite a few teams behind us that need OL help more than us- Dallas, Chicago. St. Louis and Indy. If he drops to here and those teams have him rated there #1 OT a trade down for their 1st and a 2nd rounder may be another good scenario. We would have to resign Bushrod and will give Brown another year to see if he can contribute.

Given the salary cap situation and seeing how much Bushrod is likely to ask for, I don't see us re-signing him.

wicket · 02-18-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule

I would jizz in my pants if either Eric Fisher or Lane Johnson fall to the Saints.

not really impressed by lane johnson. Let me rephrase, really not impressed by lane johnson, pugh out of cuse is a better OT prospect iyam

zachsaints52 · 02-18-2013, 07:07 PM

I want to move down no matter what.

diabsoule · 02-18-2013, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket

not really impressed by lane johnson. Let me rephrase, really not impressed by lane johnson, pugh out of cuse is a better OT prospect iyam

You're the first person I've heard of that's not impressed by Lane Johnson. I like Pugh as a prospect but I question his ability to be a LT at the next level.

Saints Dome Patrol · 02-18-2013, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachsaints52

I want to move down no matter what.

I'm with you on this one. I think if no one huge name falls to us, we should attempt to move down, stockpile some picks (maybe an early second rounder and a third, perhaps?) and get some quality players later in the draft.

Mickey Loomis has proven in several years that we can select players in the later rounds that are successful, like Jahri Evans (fourth round), Jermon Bushrod (fourth round) and of course, Marques Colston (seventh round).

But that's only if there's not a top-tier player that fills a team need. We have, in my opinion, need at nose tackle (now that we're switching to a 3-4), linebacker, and offensive tackle (especially if Bushrod walks in free agency). Safety and wide receiver could also be positions of concern as well.