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Old 02-18-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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There's too much depth in the trenches for him to go high 2nd. Plus I can see a run at WRs in the 2nd round.

Brown is a hell of a LB, but he lacks the elite physical tools that would make him a late 1st/early 2nd round player.

We saw Lavonte David and Mychal Kendricks fall last year and both are more physically impressive and just as productive as Brown. Undersized 4-3 LBs fall in the draft. He'll be there.
I think there is definately a chance.

Also there will be quite a few DBs in the late 1st/early-mid 2nd mix as well.

LBs usually slip on draft day and this year's crop of LBs is particularly deep.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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I think there is definately a chance.

Also there will be quite a few DBs in the late 1st/early-mid 2nd mix as well.

LBs usually slip on draft day and this year's crop of LBs is particularly deep.
He'll definitely fall. There's 4 LBs rated ahead of him. Oggletree, Te'o, Minter, and Greene. All 4 will probably go ahead of him. So if he's not available to us, that means 5 ILB/4-3 OLB prospects go before our 2nd round pick. I highly doubt that happens. Those players don't have that kind of value that 5 of them go that early. Especially in a draft that's loaded with talent in the trenches.

Gil Brandt has him rated as the 50th something rated player in the draft. That's right around our 2nd round pick. I expect him to be there, and I'd be happy with the selection if we made it.

Now having that said, theres whispers that Oggletree can fall in the 2nd. Now if that's the case, Ansah in the 1st and Oggletree in the 2nd would make my day, but I do understand that's pretty unrealistic.

Other guys I'd love in the 2nd, and I have a list of them:

Tank
Warford
Logan Ryan
Cornelius Washington
Greene
Kyle Long
Hodges

And I'm not done looking at players so I'm sure the list will grow. Keep an eye on Reddick. He is starting to catch my eye.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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He'll definitely fall. There's 4 LBs rated ahead of him. Oggletree, Te'o, Minter, and Greene. All 4 will probably go ahead of him. So if he's not available to us, that means 5 ILB/4-3 OLB prospects go before our 2nd round pick. I highly doubt that happens. Those players don't have that kind of value that 5 of them go that early. Especially in a draft that's loaded with talent in the trenches.

Gil Brandt has him rated as the 50th something rated player in the draft. That's right around our 2nd round pick. I expect him to be there, and I'd be happy with the selection if we made it.

Now having that said, theres whispers that Oggletree can fall in the 2nd. Now if that's the case, Ansah in the 1st and Oggletree in the 2nd would make my day, but I do understand that's pretty unrealistic.

Other guys I'd love in the 2nd, and I have a list of them:

Tank
Warford
Logan Ryan
Cornelius Washington
Greene
Kyle Long
Hodges

And I'm not done looking at players so I'm sure the list will grow. Keep an eye on Reddick. He is starting to catch my eye.
I have Brown third right now after Te'o and Minter. I think Ogletree really killed himself with the DWI. He had some character concerns before it too. Really killed himself with it.

I'd be down with any of those guys you listed though. Warford is really growing on me too. His weight scares me but I think he could be a stud.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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I have Brown third right now after Te'o and Minter. I think Ogletree really killed himself with the DWI. He had some character concerns before it too. Really killed himself with it.

I'd be down with any of those guys you listed though. Warford is really growing on me too. His weight scares me but I think he could be a stud.
Oggletree was a guy who caught my eye bc of his physical gifts, but I didn't feel entirely comfortable with him in the 1st bc he lacks instincts, doesn't slip blocks well, and doesn't tackle well. But in the 2nd, the value is there that I take the chance, if his character checks out.

I still have to study him some. It's weird, I saw 1 youtube clip of him and I saw someone who was very fast, not very instinctual, and screamed 4-3 OLB to me. But many are saying he can play ILB or OLB and he's rated as an ILB by most media pundits so I'm not sure what to make of him yet.

Gotta see more of him. I'm a sucker for physical gifts, I admit. I have to start looking at some 2nd round DTs as well. Haven't really scouted any of them other than Short whom I don't like, and the other 1st round guys.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Kyle Long is a guy who I can definitely see as a great value pick for us. He's basically the 2nd round version of Fluker. I like Fluker a lot bc he can be a great OG or a very good RT in my eyes. He'd be an excellent 1st round pick.

Kyle Long projects the same way to me, but obviously he's less talented. I think he can make a good Guard, and he can also play RT potentially. It would be a great value pick in my eyes in the 2nd round.

Warford is strictly a Guard, and he doesn't pull well, which could potentially knock him off our board even though I like him. In our offense, we want athletic Guards who can pull. So Long might be rated higher than Warford on our team board, even though I think Warford is the better pure Guard. I have a preference for power Linemen, but I understand that's not the style our team prefers.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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We love guys that can pull so that's something to keep an eye on.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Cooper can be high on our board bc of that. He's the best pulling Guard in the draft.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Although I really hated Ogletree in the first, I have no qualms about him in the 2nd. I feel like that's good value for him and a lot less risk involved. His DUI might be the best thing for the Giants if he's around in the 2nd because of it. Unlikely, but not impossible.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Well Houston fell all the way to the 3rd so you never know.

I've debated the idea of trading our 1st for 2 2nd rounders. There's great value in the 2nd. But we also have the opportunity to select a very good player at 19 as well.

There's gonna be a stud on the board when we select at 19. We have so many options, we can just stay home, sit pretty, and take BPA and not sweat it at all. Which is a really good position to be in.

It's gonna be an interesting draft for sure.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Lane Johnson
Chance Warmack
Jonathan Cooper
DJ Fluker
Sheldon Richardson
Ziggy Ansah
Alec Oggletree
Kenny Vaccaro
Matt Elam

I wouldn't mind any of those guys with our 1st. And I'm almost positive that a good 3 or 4 of those names will be there at 19 when we pick. So talk about options. We are gonna be kids in a candy store at 19.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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In round 1 my board would probably look like

1. Ezekiel Ansah
2. Sheldon Richardson
3. Chance Warmack
4. Kenny Vaccaro
5. Lane Johnson
6. DJ Fluker
7. Jonathan Cooper
8. Matt Elam
9. Alec Ogletree
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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I think the 2 safeties depend on what we do with our safeties. If we have long term plans for both Kenny and Rolle then I think both of them go off our board.

But if Kenny leaves in FA, or if Rolle only has maybe a couple of years left on the team (which is possible), then I think they are legit possibilities.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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I thought Warford was supposed to be a pretty good pulling guard? I haven't seen much of him myself but Shane say for a guy his size he's extremely athletic.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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I thought Warford was supposed to be a pretty good pulling guard? I haven't seen much of him myself but Shane say for a guy his size he's extremely athletic.
He is supposed to be quite mobile for a big guy, could be a good second round option
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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The thing that scares me about Warford is his mass. He has a lot of dead weight on that body.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I think the 2 safeties depend on what we do with our safeties. If we have long term plans for both Kenny and Rolle then I think both of them go off our board.

But if Kenny leaves in FA, or if Rolle only has maybe a couple of years left on the team (which is possible), then I think they are legit possibilities.
I was thinking about it the other day. If we have a wild card in round one, I think it could be Kenny Vaccaro. He fits what we like to do and is fair value at #19

I know safety seems loaded, but there is a very real chance Kenny Phillips leaves, plus Rolle is over 30 and off contract after next season. Brown will get a 1 year RFA tender, Sash will be a RFA after this season and Terrell Thomas may or may not make it back (likely at safety if he does).
Even if Phillips returns, he does have a history with injuries and Rolle, Brown, Sash and Thomas all come off contract after this next season.

Our safety class is an enigma, it really could be our deepest position or our biggest need.

Considering we draft with a view to a couple seasons down the track, I think Vaccaro is a very real option for us

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Old 02-19-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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The thing that scares me about Warford is his mass. He has a lot of dead weight on that body.
That's true and we don't tend to go for nassive guards
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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I was thinking about it the other day. If we have a wild card in round one, I think it could be Kenny Vaccaro. He fits what we like to do and is fair value at #19

I know safety seems loaded, but there is a very real chance Kenny Phillips leaves, plus Rolle is over 30 and off contract after next season. Brown will get a 1 year RFA tender, Sash will be a RFA after this season and Terrell Thomas may or may not make it back (likely at safety if he does).
Even if Phillips returns, he does have a history with injuries and Rolle, Brown, Sash and Thomas all come off contract after this next season.

Our safety class is an enigma, it really could be our deepest position or our biggest need.
Yup. It could wind up looking just like the Prince pick. Superficially a luxury pick, but when you remove the layers you see that it was a need pick that pays big dividends a year later.

Now that I think of it, Safety is a legitimate selection in the first 3 rounds.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Yup. It could wind up looking just like the Prince pick. Superficially a luxury pick, but when you remove the layers you see that it was a need pick that pays big dividends a year later.

Now that I think of it, Safety is a legitimate selection in the first 3 rounds.
I agree and I believe it is a higher priority with the front office than linebacker
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I agree and I believe it is a higher priority with the front office than linebacker
But I want a linebacker too :(
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:05 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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But I want a linebacker too :(
I do to, it just may be that we are looking a little later than we would like.

There is no way I see us taking a LB in the 1st if Vaccaro is on the board.

There is a chance a top talent is there in the second.


Plus there will be good options in the 2nd/3rd as well
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:29 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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There are so many positions I want to draft and not enough picks to do so. DE, DT, LB, CB, S, OG, OT.

If we come out of this draft with a DE, LB, and OG I'm good. Then I can sell myself into believing that Austin will turn the corner this year and solve DT, Brewer/Locklear will cover our OT problem, Hosely and a rejuvenated CWeb can help our CB problem and re-signing KP and/or Stevie Brown not sucking will help solve the S problem.

Of course all those ifs will probably not come true, but at least I can sell it to myself.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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there's also free agency which we've been sneaky good in recently
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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We won't have money to make any moves though, other than re-signing our own guys to long term extensions.

I can see Tuck, Snee, Rolle, Kiwi, Webster coming off the books next year. Along with potentially Baas.

We could be players in FA in 2014
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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i mean like cheap, stop-gap guys. i know we're sick of stop gaps, but they're a necessary evil in todays league
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