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Old 02-21-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
Macarthur
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Originally Posted by DrewyVuitton View Post
On Spencer, he didnt necessarily rush any better this year than in past years, he just got lucky. If you look at his "pressures" recorded by PFF he actually tallied less this year than in previous years but had more sacks. Just kind of a fluke.

I agree though, franchise him or let him walk. Wouldn't commit to him long term. Haven't seen enough impact.

I actually hope we franchise him. He's in his prime. Make him play his ass off for a contract again. Franchise would be 10.8 mil but cutting Free/Sensabaugh and restructuring Romo/Carr & maybe Ratliff get the team in position to pay that and still add some basic FA depth while reserving the rest for the draft.
I think I agree with this. His production did appear better on paper, but as the PFF points out, I still do not think he is a difference maker and worthy of the type of money it will take to resign him.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:05 AM    (permalink
Macarthur
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I saw one scout-type on twitter say that NFL folks are thinking that Cooper's best position may be Center. I would love to fix that center position for the next 10 years.

I truly believe that a very good player at the Center position would make this OL infinitely better.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I saw one scout-type on twitter say that NFL folks are thinking that Cooper's best position may be Center. I would love to fix that center position for the next 10 years.

I truly believe that a very good player at the Center position would make this OL infinitely better.
A premiere G/C prospect is exactly what we need, love those guys. Now me personally, I want him at Guard. You can't get the max out of his athleticism at Center because he's not downfield blocking as much, isn't pulling. Plus, there are 4-5 Centers who should go first 3 rounds at least. It's a great year to load up in the trenches we should take advantage.

We could go Cooper and Frederickson in the 2nd, Eric Reid in the 3rd(if we are lucky) = success!
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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A premiere G/C prospect is exactly what we need, love those guys. Now me personally, I want him at Guard. You can't get the max out of his athleticism at Center because he's not downfield blocking as much, isn't pulling. Plus, there are 4-5 Centers who should go first 3 rounds at least. It's a great year to load up in the trenches we should take advantage.

We could go Cooper and Frederickson in the 2nd, Eric Reid in the 3rd(if we are lucky) = success!
Who says you can't take advantage of his athleticism at center?

What if Cooper is the better Center?
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Who says you can't take advantage of his athleticism at center?

What if Cooper is the better Center?
I don't think you can take advantage of his athleticism as much at center then you could at Guard. Guards move around way more then a Center, that's not to say all a Center does is come off, block and repeat all game, but Guards pull to both sides, move to the next level a lot more frequently, and work in space a lot more.


I also don't think Cooper is the better Center, but that could be proved wrong. But you wouldn't hear a gripe out of me if we selected him. Same with Fluker, could care less where we put them just bring them in.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I don't think you can take advantage of his athleticism as much at center then you could at Guard. Guards move around way more then a Center, that's not to say all a Center does is come off, block and repeat all game, but Guards pull to both sides, move to the next level a lot more frequently, and work in space a lot more.


I also don't think Cooper is the better Center, but that could be proved wrong. But you wouldn't hear a gripe out of me if we selected him. Same with Fluker, could care less where we put them just bring them in.
Fair enough. I agree.

I just feel so strongly that Center is so important, I want that position fixed big time! And along those lines, I'm not a big B Jones fan. His versatility is great, but I think he is going to get overpowered early in his career. I do not think he would be an upgrade over Costa early in his career.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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I actually think TJ Johnson is an underrated C prospect.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. I agree.

I just feel so strongly that Center is so important, I want that position fixed big time! And along those lines, I'm not a big B Jones fan. His versatility is great, but I think he is going to get overpowered early in his career. I do not think he would be an upgrade over Costa early in his career.
x100. I just feel there are 2 Guard prospects I rate a lot higher then the Center prospects. If you ask me I would have started going Guard then Center, but I'm realistic and don't expect Jerry to do that. I just know it's a great draft to get a Center, hopefully we take advantage.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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MoveTheSticks has called Werner out for awhile now. Said that he spoke to some teams and many feel he's a mid 1st guy not a top 10 pick. I can definitely see that.

Ansah will go in the top 10 and Werner will fall. That's what I'm expecting.
I don't see it. Werner will go top 5 or 6 IMO, he really stand out when I watched him with a non stop motor and his ceiling is off the chart since he has only played football for a few years. His future is all ahead of him.

Personall;y, I also doubt Ansuh goes top 10, he was totally dominated at the Senior Bowl practices and while he dominated during the game, the rules of the Senior Bowl really suits an athletic athlete but he won't find it that easy in the NFL where technique plays a huge part in production and athletic ability can be negated quite easily if you have no technique.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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x100. I just feel there are 2 Guard prospects I rate a lot higher then the Center prospects. If you ask me I would have started going Guard then Center, but I'm realistic and don't expect Jerry to do that. I just know it's a great draft to get a Center, hopefully we take advantage.
There should be a solid OC prospect available in round 3, maybe even in round 4, as there are 4 pretty good prospects in this draft.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Haven't done a mock draft in a while but with the combine coming up I got the itch, so here goes:

Round 1: D.J. Fluker | OT | Alabama




I know many of you are liking the idea of Fluker at Guard but I still view him as a very good RT prospect who will help reignite our running game Day 1. While he's not someone you'd leave on an island against a DE all game, there's still value in a power Tackle who can physically dominate at the point of attack... something we haven't had in a long time. Plus, having the luxury of Tyron Smith to man the left side with Parnell as your swing we won't be calling upon Fluker to protect Tony's blind side. Sometimes you get big guys, sometimes you get nasty guys... but Fluker is the rare case of both who looks forward to taking your manhood. This team can use some of that.


Round 2: Barrett Jones | C | Alabama




Not the physical specimen of his Bama counterparts, Jones still shares that passion of beating down a defense play in and play out. His best asset is his versatility, and being able to play multiple positions along a unit like the offensive line brings great value to a team and versatility is something Jerry loves in prospects. Extremely intelligent and consistent, Jones projects as a long term starter at the next level and would be a much welcomed addition to the interior. Reuniting him with Fluker can hopefully upstart a culture change to our line, bringing some of that Alabama swag with them.


Round 3: Bennie Logan | DT | LSU




Logan received hype last year flashing some impressive physical tools for a young player. He had somewhat of a disappointing Junior campaign in that he didn't put up the stat-line that many were predicting but he still has an intriguing raw skill set and I'd bet money on him turning into a beast under the tutelage of Marinelli. He played mostly as the 1-Tech for LSU this past season but belongs over a Guard playing up the field where his combination of quickness and power can create havoc.




Round 4: Jelani Jenkins | LB | Florida




His ability says he should go higher but his injury history will be what drops him... sound familiar? One of the more explosive linebackers in this draft with premier sideline to sideline speed, I view him as a bargain at this point and he should challenge for a starting job early on. Also plays with a killer instinct and is a fearless competitor.




Round 5: Nickell Robey | CB | USC




He's been a steady pick for me late in the draft because despite his lack of size the kid can flat out ball. Bringing in his former Coordinator only furthers my belief that he's someone we'll keep an eye on in the middle rounds. He has a great understanding of how to play underneath zones and bait QBs into throws, would make for a great addition in our Nickel or Dime sets. Also loves to stick his nose in there and lay the wood, plays with a chip on his shoulder.




Round 6: Mike James | RB | Miami




There might be more talented runners still left on the board, but James is a jack of all trades type of back who is one of the better pass catchers and blockers in his class. A patient north-south back who runs with determination and has been a leader in Miami's lockerroom during a rough stretch for the program. Right kind of guy, seems like someone Garrett would take a flier on in the late rounds and is someone I can see becoming a better pro than expected.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Haven't done a mock draft in a while but with the combine coming up I got the itch, so here goes:

Round 1: D.J. Fluker | OT | Alabama




I know many of you are liking the idea of Fluker at Guard but I still view him as a very good RT prospect who will help reignite our running game Day 1. While he's not someone you'd leave on an island against a DE all game, there's still value in a power Tackle who can physically dominate at the point of attack... something we haven't had in a long time. Plus, having the luxury of Tyron Smith to man the left side with Parnell as your swing we won't be calling upon Fluker to protect Tony's blind side. Sometimes you get big guys, sometimes you get nasty guys... but Fluker is the rare case of both who looks forward to taking your manhood. This team can use some of that.


Round 2: Barrett Jones | C | Alabama




Not the physical specimen of his Bama counterparts, Jones still shares that passion of beating down a defense play in and play out. His best asset is his versatility, and being able to play multiple positions along a unit like the offensive line brings great value to a team and versatility is something Jerry loves in prospects. Extremely intelligent and consistent, Jones projects as a long term starter at the next level and would be a much welcomed addition to the interior. Reuniting him with Fluker can hopefully upstart a culture change to our line, bringing some of that Alabama swag with them.


Round 3: Bennie Logan | DT | LSU




Logan received hype last year flashing some impressive physical tools for a young player. He had somewhat of a disappointing Junior campaign in that he didn't put up the stat-line that many were predicting but he still has an intriguing raw skill set and I'd bet money on him turning into a beast under the tutelage of Marinelli. He played mostly as the 1-Tech for LSU this past season but belongs over a Guard playing up the field where his combination of quickness and power can create havoc.




Round 4: Jelani Jenkins | LB | Florida




His ability says he should go higher but his injury history will be what drops him... sound familiar? One of the more explosive linebackers in this draft with premier sideline to sideline speed, I view him as a bargain at this point and he should challenge for a starting job early on. Also plays with a killer instinct and is a fearless competitor.




Round 5: Nickell Robey | CB | USC




He's been a steady pick for me late in the draft because despite his lack of size the kid can flat out ball. Bringing in his former Coordinator only furthers my belief that he's someone we'll keep an eye on in the middle rounds. He has a great understanding of how to play underneath zones and bait QBs into throws, would make for a great addition in our Nickel or Dime sets. Also loves to stick his nose in there and lay the wood, plays with a chip on his shoulder.




Round 6: Mike James | RB | Miami




There might be more talented runners still left on the board, but James is a jack of all trades type of back who is one of the better pass catchers and blockers in his class. A patient north-south back who runs with determination and has been a leader in Miami's lockerroom during a rough stretch for the program. Right kind of guy, seems like someone Garrett would take a flier on in the late rounds and is someone I can see becoming a better pro than expected.

So....You wanna make out? Lol. If we could get beefed up on the O-line, but still get value picks like Jelani Jenkins and Mike James I'd be ecstatic. Awesome mock. Though if it turned out this way would want to see about a Safety in FA, even a guy like George Wilson from Buffalo, not sure what to expect out of Church and he should be just good depth vs a starter.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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So....You wanna make out? Lol. If we could get beefed up on the O-line, but still get value picks like Jelani Jenkins and Mike James I'd be ecstatic. Awesome mock. Though if it turned out this way would want to see about a Safety in FA, even a guy like George Wilson from Buffalo, not sure what to expect out of Church and he should be just good depth vs a starter.
Hahaha... Yea I wanted to fit a safety in there but it was tough. Thought about it Round 3 with maybe a Shawn Williams or Swearinger but Logan's upside at a more pressing position won out. After that it becomes more BPA and those players were just more attractive than the safeties I think will be available. Also I don't know if a later round safety would be an upgrade over what we have, but that's me factoring in Church being healthy. Still have to see about Matt Johnson too.
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Jarvis as just a pass rusher ala Bruce Irvin? He would be asked to play WDE in a base set (same as Ware) and wouldn't be an option to have both on the field together outside of 3rd down unless you want him at SLB in the base defense.

I wouldn't hate it, but I think a Sheldon Richardson, if available, is much more valuable. Would have been fun to see Richardson with Rob Ryan -- if you watch his game vs. South Carolina they allow him to stand up and just act as a pass rushing rover at times from a linebacker position. I doubt he'd do anything exotic in this new defense, but still, would love to have him. Athleticism and potential is as high as anyone in the class.

I saw on NFL network the other day it's been nearly 30 years since an OG has been taken earlier than 17, which is where Iupati and Hutchinson went. I really think these guys are being over valued at this point. There will be so many in the 2nd & 3rd round that are future pro bowl guys that I just don't see the justification in spending a 1st rounder on a guard.

With as deep as the DL pool is with guys like Ansah/Jordan/Werner/Jones/Moore/Mingo at DE and Star/Floyd at DT, the certainty that at least 2 OT's (Joeckel/Fisher) will be off the board, a WR (Patterson), Millner at CB, maybe a Safety, a QB or 2, and Warmack -- it's entirely possible that Richardson falls to 18 or at least within striking distance for a trade up.
All I know is Jarvis Jones is an ANIMAL. I'm sure Monte could figure out where to play him. Bruce Irvin is a good mention. Perhaps how Von Miller is used. I doubt he's our pick. ...and I doubt Warmack and Fluker are gone before him. As I would take either ahead of Jones. Taking Jones over Cooper is tough, but I think I would lean on Jones.
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Hahaha... Yea I wanted to fit a safety in there but it was tough. Thought about it Round 3 with maybe a Shawn Williams or Swearinger but Logan's upside at a more pressing position won out. After that it becomes more BPA and those players were just more attractive than the safeties I think will be available. Also I don't know if a later round safety would be an upgrade over what we have, but that's me factoring in Church being healthy. Still have to see about Matt Johnson too.
Good mock Finisher. Give me Fluker and Jones and I don't care what the rest of the draft looks like. I like that you went conservative and didn't give us any players that probably weren't gonna be available at those rounds.
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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There should be a solid OC prospect available in round 3, maybe even in round 4, as there are 4 pretty good prospects in this draft.
How do you rank them and what rounds?
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Not new to this message board, however, I have not posted much. I will tell you this, DJ Fluker is a Erik Williams clone. 6'6" 350 (once he gets into an NFL conditioning program, weight will not be an issue). The film does not lie, have a look for yourself fellas. He is the IDEAL RT. It befuddles me that we are not talking OLINE. We addressed defense last year by selecting MO Clai' and signing BCarr, and, we have addressed DL every draft. Give Tony solid protection and, we will indeed flourish. Demarco ALWAYS has to juke or spin out of tacklers before he can even get to the first level of the defense. Look how San Francisco has addressed their OLINE. 3 First round players that are all pro bowlers, and their RT Anthony Davis is 24 years old, and will be in a pro bowl near you. Marcus Spears has done NOTHING as a 1st round pick, Hatcher is good, we should've resigned Canty a few years ago, Ratliff has a bit left. Don't need to mention D-Ware. Let Spencer walk, how do you play with DWare for 5 years and only average 5.5 in those 5 years? Then, in a contract year, he pulls together an 11 sack season? Fishy, if you ask me. Let him go elsewhere. He's undersized as a 4-3 DE and, he is 29 years old. If we do not draft Fluker, we will reap.
Welcome to our forum! How long have you been following?

Excellent point about SF and how they've invested in their OL. Their success is not surprising. That's what we need to do and I'm just not listening to any other suggestions. LOL! DT can wait. DE can wait. LB can wait. S can wait. We need to fix our OL period. I don't buy the talk that they showed improvement. I don't buy the talk that Callahan likes his guys. I don't buy the talk that we have bigger needs.

Everyone wants to talk up the need for defense... well that's what Kiffin was brought in for.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Welcome to our forum! How long have you been following?

Excellent point about SF and how they've invested in their OL. Their success is not surprising. That's what we need to do and I'm just not listening to any other suggestions. LOL! DT can wait. DE can wait. LB can wait. S can wait. We need to fix our OL period. I don't buy the talk that they showed improvement. I don't buy the talk that Callahan likes his guys. I don't buy the talk that we have bigger needs.

Everyone wants to talk up the need for defense... well that's what Kiffin was brought in for.
You know your going to be disappoited, right? Lol
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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You know your going to be disappoited, right? Lol
Yeah, we'll likely end up with Marcus Spears 2.0
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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You know your going to be disappoited, right? Lol
I know I am. Without a doubt I will be. I'm also expecting an early pick, probably our 3rd rounder to be a WTF pick. Anyone who has been around for some years and post on the board during the draft knows what I mean. We are all sitting around going wow Player A and Player B are both gonna be there I can't believe it! Then it gets to our pick and we draft somebody from Chattanooga State that we never heard of.



But I honestly expect some skill position players, I highly, highly doubt Jerry goes OL twice in the first 3 rounds. As much as I want it, and feel it's the best route, it's very unlikely. But don't steal my dreams!
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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If we address the OL in the 1st round would anyone be against spending a pick on Tank Carradine in the second if he is available ? I think he has the frames to add 10 lbs of good weight to his frame and become a nice option as a base end. Of course his injury status will affect whether he will be an option or even available but the team hasn't been afraid to pick up an injured star that slides due to injury.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Good mock Finisher. Give me Fluker and Jones and I don't care what the rest of the draft looks like. I like that you went conservative and didn't give us any players that probably weren't gonna be available at those rounds.
Fluker dropped 16 lbs from the Senior Bowl to weigh in day at the Combine. Sometimes guys like this worry me that they won't keep their weight and be a bit lazy.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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Once I've started to breakdown the prospects more, Johathan Jenkins and Hankins are two prospects that started to slide. Yes they are space eaters and can be assets against the run, but in today's NFL if you're taking a defensive linemen in round one, he better have the ability to get after the passer.

I make the comment after Witten has them 19th and 23rd on his big board.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Once I've started to breakdown the prospects more, Johathan Jenkins and Hankins are two prospects that started to slide. Yes they are space eaters and can be assets against the run, but in today's NFL if you're taking a defensive linemen in round one, he better have the ability to get after the passer.

I make the comment after Witten has them 19th and 23rd on his big board.
I agree with that, I am one of the few people who thinks John Jenkins has pass rush potential as a 1 or 0 tech. I am anxious to see what his 10 yard split is going to be but for a player of his size he has the ability to drive off the snap with some explosion. At the seniorbowl he had moments that he dominated in 1v1's and he is going to dictate a double on most plays. In a 4 man line he is the type of player who makes the pass rush better by freeing up the three tech and ends up to do damage.
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