Cordarrelle Patterson, WR, Tennessee

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by bhaarat316

Same guy who has a babysitter, ask permission ti go out on his birthday, and has a curfew?

Yep. The guy who self imposed those own sanctions and just posted All Pro numbers the last season, that guy. People can make jokes about the curefews and alcohol all they want, but I guess you would rather have Kenny Britt huh, with no sanctions and getting arrested everytime you look? Even before those sanctions he's never had any alcohol or drug related problems and there are a ton of guys in the NFL you can't say the same about, but those are ok right?

Originally Posted by AcheTen

The only WRs worthy of first round picks are the Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson types who have not only the elite physical tools and size BUT ALSO the elite college production in terms of catches AND yards (which demonstrates ability to consistently catch passes).

So basically the only WR's who ever deserve to go in the first round are once in a decade type of prospects who are arguably the best players in the draft? That's great logic there. Do you realize how rare a prospect like Fitz, AJ, and Calvin are? That makes absolutely no sense.

[WCH]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

So basically the only WR's who ever deserve to go in the first round are once in a decade type of prospects who are arguably the best players in the draft? That's great logic there. Do you realize how rare a prospect like Fitz, AJ, and Calvin are? That makes absolutely no sense.

Longhorns, I like you, and I'ma let you finish, but "once in a decade" is my least favorite phrase of all time. Fitz, AJ, and Megatron have all come out in the past decade. No more than one of them can be a once in a decade talent.

Also, the "generational talent" and "once in a generation" memes need to go.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by WCH

Longhorns, I like you, and I'ma let you finish, but "once in a decade" is my least favorite phrase of all time. Fitz, AJ, and Megatron have all come out in the past decade. No more than one of them can be a once in a decade talent. AJ wasn't even the first WR picked in his draft class.

Also, the "generational talent" and "once in a generation" memes need to go.

Maybe once in a decade is too strong a word, but we know that you don't get those types of talents every couple of years. There have been a ton of good WR prospects that have came out and were well worth a 1st rounder.

[AcheTen]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

So basically the only WR's who ever deserve to go in the first round are once in a decade type of prospects who are arguably the best players in the draft? That's great logic there. Do you realize how rare a prospect like Fitz, AJ, and Calvin are? That makes absolutely no sense.

These guys come out every year or two. Every draft, or at least every other draft, has guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, etc. Those guys are worthy of top picks because they are athletic guys who produce big-time in college. If you are targeting any WR but this type of guy in the first round, you're basically just wasting your pick on a big gamble on a position that is not even as important as some others (QB, OT, DT, DE, DB, etc). You'd be better off just picking a defensive or offensive linemen with that pick in that situation, and then gambling on an athletic WR in the 2nd or 3rd round.


In the past 12 years alone, here are some WR prospects that fit my criteria of highly productive in college with plus athleticism in addition to production:

2012: (too early to tell how they do but anyway)
Justin Blackmon
Michael Floyd
Kendall Wright
2011:
AJ Green
Julio Jones
2010:
Dez Bryant
2009:
Michael Crabtree
Jeremy Maclin
Percy Harvin
Hakeem Nicks
2008:
none
2007:
Calvin Johnson
Dwayne Bowe
2006:
Santonio Holmes
2005:
Braylon Edwards
2004:
Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
2003:
Andre Johnson
2002:
none
2001:
Santana Moss
Reggie Wayne
2000:
Plaxico Burress



As you can see, there are, on average, about 1-2 quality ( high production, high athleticism, low bust potential) WR prospects at the top of the draft in every year. I would only spend a first round pick on these guys, because I know the risk is small. Of course, there are other WRs that go on to have success in the NFL, but alot of these guys get picked later (2nd and 3rd rounds) and succeed either without athleticism or without elite production. That's fine, but I don't want to waste a first round pick looking for one of these guys when I can just find them in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, and save my first round picks for more premium positions or less risky WRs.

If the particular draft class I'm picking in doesn't have one of these guys, or these guys both go AHEAD of my pick (as in 2011 after Julio Jones and AJ Green) then what do I do? Simply avoid reaching for "need" (which is what bad GMs of bad teams do) and pick another position! Get a highly rated OG or DT or OLB or FS. So what if your WR corps is still average. Plenty of teams have won a ton of games with an average WR corps. And then take a gamble on a 2nd or 3rd round prospect with high athleticism or a small guy with high level ofproduction, and maybe you get a Steve Smith or a Wes Welker or a Terrell Owens.

The bottom line is: don't reach for WR prospects in the first round unless they have both athleticism and production. You'll save yourself alot of headaches by doing so, and make your team alot better by instead drafting talent.

[Caulibflower]

AcheTen, I'm going to redact just a little bit of my earlier vitriol but just ask you if you can give me a good answer to this - why is Cordarrelle Patterson not on a level similar to Maclin and Percy Harvin? He came into D-1A and immediately dominated. You like stats. So.

First game in Division 1, vs. NC State, he has 6 catches for 93 yards and a TD, as well as two rushes for 72 yards, one of which was a 67-yard TD.

70+ receiving yards each of the next two weeks.

Then his receiving numbers dip against Georgia, (2 catches for 31 yards), but he has 55 rushing yards and a TD.

Mississippi State is similar; 2 catches, 25 yards, but again has 3 carries and gets 57 yards out of them, and also has a kick return touchdown.

Then he had a down game against Alabamam, (1 catch, 25 yards, 2 carries for -6)

Against South Carolina, has 6 offensive touches for 47 yards.

Gets back on track against Troy with his biggest output of the season, 9 catches for 219 yards and a touchdown, and over the final three games averages 89 yards from scrimmage and adds another rushing touchdown, another receiving touchdown, and a punt return touchdown - scores a different way in three consecutive games.

So if you can get over the best team in the country shutting him out, he was a consistently explosive player in the nation's best football conference. What else do you need to call him productive? He may not be polished yet, but unpolished gems still have a lot more value than a stone which will never be a jewel, and I don't think Cordarrelle's going to need as much work as some are indicating to have NFL success. I think he can come in and, much like Tennessee, immediately contribute as a return man and multi-threat player, and over the next three years he'll become increasingly skilled. Tennessee didn't have any reason to force the ball to him in passing situations because they have another first/second-round caliber player in Justin Hunter as well as a good tight end; this allowed them to use Cordarrelle however they wanted. It's not that he was incapable of being their number one receiver, it's that they already had one and Cordarrelle can do lots of things besides play on the outside. Yes, I wish I could have seen him play his freshman and sophomore years against superior competition, but the fact is that he has had a lot of success at every level he's played at. He's a unique player, and the Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald/etc. comparisons miss the point that none of those players are as electrifying with the ball in their hands as Cordarrelle.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by AcheTen

The bottom line is: don't reach for WR prospects in the first round unless they have both athleticism and production. You'll save yourself alot of headaches by doing so, and make your team alot better by instead drafting talent.

I didn't skip your whole post, just wanted to comment on the last part. So Patterson is not a talent? Also, I keep wondering why when people bring up production they only talk about his receiving production. He's a play-maker, he might be drafted as a WR and has to develop but that doesn't mean his production in a number of ways should be overlooked. Again, he probably wasn't even expecting to contribute heavily this year by transferring to a team with Justin Hunter and Da'Rick Rogers.


Considering the learning curve there had to be, and the conference he played in, I'd say he more then met expectations. Where was Josh Gordon on that list? Demryius Thomas? It's not some exact science here.

I'm not making the argument that he's a safe pick, or that he doesn't come with concerns, or a learning curve, but at some point you have to evaluate what you see on tape, and the athleticism he has for the position, the things he needs to learn are all coachable.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by AcheTen

These guys come out every year or two. Every draft, or at least every other draft, has guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, etc. Those guys are worthy of top picks because they are athletic guys who produce big-time in college. If you are targeting any WR but this type of guy in the first round, you're basically just wasting your pick on a big gamble on a position that is not even as important as some others (QB, OT, DT, DE, DB, etc). You'd be better off just picking a defensive or offensive linemen with that pick in that situation, and then gambling on an athletic WR in the 2nd or 3rd round.


In the past 12 years alone, here are some WR prospects that fit my criteria of highly productive in college with plus athleticism in addition to production:

2012: (too early to tell how they do but anyway)
Justin Blackmon
Michael Floyd
Kendall Wright
2011:
AJ Green
Julio Jones
2010:
Dez Bryant
2009:
Michael Crabtree
Jeremy Maclin
Percy Harvin
Hakeem Nicks
2008:
none
2007:
Calvin Johnson
Dwayne Bowe
2006:
Santonio Holmes
2005:
Braylon Edwards
2004:
Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
2003:
Andre Johnson
2002:
none
2001:
Santana Moss
Reggie Wayne
2000:
Plaxico Burress



As you can see, there are, on average, about 1-2 quality ( high production, high athleticism, low bust potential) WR prospects at the top of the draft in every year. I would only spend a first round pick on these guys, because I know the risk is small. Of course, there are other WRs that go on to have success in the NFL, but alot of these guys get picked later (2nd and 3rd rounds) and succeed either without athleticism or without elite production. That's fine, but I don't want to waste a first round pick looking for one of these guys when I can just find them in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, and save my first round picks for more premium positions or less risky WRs.

If the particular draft class I'm picking in doesn't have one of these guys, or these guys both go AHEAD of my pick (as in 2011 after Julio Jones and AJ Green) then what do I do? Simply avoid reaching for "need" (which is what bad GMs of bad teams do) and pick another position! Get a highly rated OG or DT or OLB or FS. So what if your WR corps is still average. Plenty of teams have won a ton of games with an average WR corps. And then take a gamble on a 2nd or 3rd round prospect with high athleticism or a small guy with high level ofproduction, and maybe you get a Steve Smith or a Wes Welker or a Terrell Owens.

The bottom line is: don't reach for WR prospects in the first round unless they have both athleticism and production. You'll save yourself alot of headaches by doing so, and make your team alot better by instead drafting talent.

Patterson definitely has both, so I don't know what you are talking about. You can argue that you don't trust one year of major DI production and that's fine, but he has both.

[J-Mike88]

Over the years, I have seen tons of fantastic athletic specimens, but "raw" receivers, be drafted too high in NFL Drafts, who then never reached the high expectations people had for them.

I personally prefer guys who already learned most of their craft in college, 2, 3, 4 years, produced.... like not only the marquee guys mentions, but by guys like James Jones, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Wes Welker, Hakeem Nicks.... even from smaller schools like Western Michigan, San Jose St, Alcorn St, whatever.... I like WR's who have flatout produced, learned how to run routes.

[AcheTen]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I didn't skip your whole post, just wanted to comment on the last part. So Patterson is not a talent? Also, I keep wondering why when people bring up production they only talk about his receiving production. He's a play-maker, he might be drafted as a WR and has to develop but that doesn't mean his production in a number of ways should be overlooked. Again, he probably wasn't even expecting to contribute heavily this year by transferring to a team with Justin Hunter and Da'Rick Rogers.


Considering the learning curve there had to be, and the conference he played in, I'd say he more then met expectations. Where was Josh Gordon on that list? Demryius Thomas? It's not some exact science here.

I'm not making the argument that he's a safe pick, or that he doesn't come with concerns, or a learning curve, but at some point you have to evaluate what you see on tape, and the athleticism he has for the position, the things he needs to learn are all coachable.

I would be perfectly happy to take Patterson in the 3rd round. He'd be a tremendous "upside", high-risk, high-reward pick there in the mold of a Terrel Owens or something.] And then I could spend my 1st round pick on less risky and even more important positions.

But with a first round pick, a GM's primary responsiblity is to acquire talent that can contribute for many years, and be pretty sure of that contribution. Patterson's college profile simply does not represent enough certainty of future contribution. Not only that, but his position profile (WR) does not offer enough value to a team EVEN IF HE HITS.

There are high risk positions and then there are lower risk positions in the draft. WR is definitely one of the highest risk positions. If you look at the history of the draft, you see that a higher percentage of WR picks fail to contribute than any other position in the draft. If you want to mitigate your risk in the most important round of the draft (the first), you'd do well to steer clear of WRs unless they were absolute "Lock" prospects like Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, and the like - guys with elite athleticism AND elite production AND elite size AND solid character. If that guy isn't there, then just move on and pick a different position! You don't need elite WRs to win a ton of games in the NFL anyway. That brings me to my next point:

It is also one of the least valuable positions in the NFL when it comes to winning games. How often do you see Super Bowl teams without top-tier WRs on their roster? Very often. Often Super Bowl teams feature great QBs who take 2nd and 3rd round talent and make them look better than they are - i.e. Aaron Rodgers throwing to many different guys, Tom Brady throwing to many different guys, Eli Manning throwing to many different guys, Joe Flacco throwing to many different guys, etc.

If I'm a GM picking in the first round this year, why should I gamble on a WR prospect when I can take an OG like Chance Warmack who is almost guaranteed (with much higher certainty) to be a Pro Bowl offensive lineman for many years... or a DT like Shariff Floyd or Star Lotulelei who are almost guaranteed to be at the very least solid run-stuffing defensive linemen who make others better around them?

Even if Patterson "hits", you could end up like the Lions, or Cowboys, with a top-5 WR but without the DL and OL to win enough games to even get into the playoffs. Who cares if your #1 WR is putting up 2000 yards if you can't pass block or stop opposing QBs and you lose 7+ games?

On the other hand, you have guys like Joe Flacco throwing to late-round WRs and free agents, because his team invested resources in the DL and OL in the first round and built a strong team around him instead of wasting top picks on skill position players.

[mpt117]

after reading through this thread, i see everyone talking about patterson as a receiver and a little bit as a returner. i know his listed position is wide receiver, but i look at him as a weapon.

i dont think anyone has mentioned his versatility on offense as a ball carrier, which none of the other receivers and pros mentioned earlier in this thread have really done. and, this isnt on reverses or anything. they are designed runs where he lines up in the backfield. he had 25 carries for 308 yards and 3 touchdowns, in addition to those 46 receptions for 778 yards and 5 touchdowns. plus, he had 2 special teams touchdowns. this is a 6'3" 205 pound weapon with 4.4 speed. hes like a bigger percy harvin, which i often see him compared to. yes, hes raw, but i think you can put him on the field right away and he can contribute. whether it be at receiver, running back or special teams. i think he will cause a lot of problems for opposing teams, as you can use him in so many ways to hurt them. and, just imagine he reaches his potential and becomes a polished receiver. what a nightmare he'll be.

[gpngc]

Originally Posted by mpt117

after reading through this thread, i see everyone talking about patterson as a receiver and a little bit as a returner. i know his listed position is wide receiver, but i look at him as a weapon.

i dont think anyone has mentioned his versatility on offense as a ball carrier, which none of the other receivers and pros mentioned earlier in this thread have really done. and, this isnt on reverses or anything. they are designed runs where he lines up in the backfield. he had 25 carries for 308 yards and 3 touchdowns, in addition to those 46 receptions for 778 yards and 5 touchdowns. plus, he had 2 special teams touchdowns. this is a 6'3" 205 pound weapon with 4.4 speed. hes like a bigger percy harvin, which i often see him compared to. yes, hes raw, but i think you can put him on the field right away and he can contribute. whether it be at receiver, running back or special teams. i think he will cause a lot of problems for opposing teams, as you can use him in so many ways to hurt them. and, just imagine he reaches his potential and becomes a polished receiver. what a nightmare he'll be.

I have never seen them do this but I've only watched about three youtube cutups and various live game action of the team.

But if that's true that's great insight. I'd like to see those plays...

[mpt117]

Originally Posted by gpngc

I have never seen them do this but I've only watched about three youtube cutups and various live game action of the team.

But if that's true that's great insight. I'd like to see those plays...

id like to say this, not all 25 of his runs were designed and some were reverses and that td run vs georgia was from a broken play.

check the very first post on this thread, i posted a video from youtube that highlights his first half of the season. the second clip, that long td run vs nc state, he is lined up in the backfield. although hes standing, he is in the backfield and that was a designed run for him.

there was another clip i saw of him in the backfield, too. gonna try and find it.

[Cigaro]

It's probably nothing, but the Panthers official twitter today tweeted that Cordarrelle Patterson stated he grew up wanting to play for us. Whether or not he wants to play here is largely irrelevant, but the fact it came from our official twitter was weird. Given Gettleman's desire to have the offense go more vertical and this tweet, I think we might just be legitimately interested in him.

[brat316]

and you know, you need another legit WR outside of Steve Smith.

[WCH]

Originally Posted by Cigaro

It's probably nothing, but the Panthers official twitter today tweeted that Cordarrelle Patterson stated he grew up wanting to play for us. Whether or not he wants to play here is largely irrelevant, but the fact it came from our official twitter was weird. Given Gettleman's desire to have the offense go more vertical and this tweet, I think we might just be legitimately interested in him.

Or they have no interest and they're hoping that somebody else will bite on the smokescreen and trade ahead of the Panthers, thereby allowing another player to fall one spot further.

Or, and this is my guess, the people running the twitter feed are in the marketing department and the football people had nothing to do with this.

[Cigaro]

Originally Posted by WCH

Or they have no interest and they're hoping that somebody else will bite on the smokescreen and trade ahead of the Panthers, thereby allowing another player to fall one spot further.

Or, and this is my guess, the people running the twitter feed are in the marketing department and the football people had nothing to do with this.

That's why I said it's probably nothing, although Gettleman's comments seem pretty genuine. That being said, its not the Twitter page, but the Panthers website itself is often indicative of things going on in the front office (for instance the fact that they've got an article on Beason transitioning to the outside likely implies we intend to keep him and simply restructure his contract). But we don't need to make any interest in Patterson known, we'll have a hard enough time having a chance to draft him already.

[Dacitykats]

why wouldnt a local kid(from Rock Hill SC, 20 minutes from Charlotte, NC) want to play for the local team? i hope the feeling is mutal. if he is on the board at 14 he will be in a panther uni.

[LonghornsLegend]

That's probably one of his best fits for me. Going to Miami alongside a Greg Jennings signing, or going to Carolina with Steve Smith, both places have franchise signal callers, and he won't be asked to step in and be the #1 WR from the get go. He is a guy I'd expect to be used like a weapon his first year or 2 and have a true breakout year 3, I think he will make big plays and be able to put the ball in the end zone in a variety of ways before he has refined his game as a WR.


If he goes somewhere like the Jets, I'll worry about his development. Sometimes how a WR is transitioned into his role makes a difference on his longterm outlook.

[Caulibflower]

I think the best place for him is Seattle, but they're definitely going to have to trade up if they want him. We should sign Dwight Freeney as a free agent and then move up for him. The Browns might be amenable to a trade. ;-)

Seattle could quickly go from "good" to "frightening" with those two additions.

[mpt117]

height and weight is in...

before weigh ins: 6'3" 205 lbs

combine weigh in: 6'1" 7/8 (basically 6'2") 216 lbs

bigger and smaller at the same time. think this helps or hurts his stock or no real change? surprised to see him 11 pounds up from listed weight. anyone know what he played at? hopefully doesnt lose any speed or quickness.

[Don Vito]

I don't think it really changes anything for him.

[Cigaro]

He's simply a little more compact than expected(which isn't necessarily a bad thing given the style of receiver he is). The only measurement that may hurt him is his hand size.

[CashmoneyDrew]

Originally Posted by mpt117

height and weight is in...

before weigh ins: 6'3" 205 lbs

combine weigh in: 6'1" 7/8 (basically 6'2") 216 lbs

bigger and smaller at the same time. think this helps or hurts his stock or no real change? surprised to see him 11 pounds up from listed weight. anyone know what he played at? hopefully doesnt lose any speed or quickness.

He was listed at 205 at UT, but he always looked more like 210-215 to me. So he probably hasn't put on much weight at all really.

[Monomach]

9" hands. :(

[AcheTen]

Originally Posted by Monomach

9" hands. :(

So he is fast and strong, but he can't catch.

His ceiling is basically "New York Jets Braylon Edwards"