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Old 02-24-2013, 02:21 PM    (permalink
Cigaro
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Yeah, I mean, I understand there are certain situations where an Alex Smith might be a good option to have as QB. If you have a great team and were a QB away he might be a much better option if you need to win now.

Clearly the Chiefs aren't in that situation though. They need to be all QB, all the time. If they can bring in Foles without giving anything significant up, fine. Same goes with Alex Smith. If they take either of them and then that makes it so they decide not to take Geno it was a stupid decision.
Bringing in Alex Smith is a bit different than bringing in Foles, IMO. Reid didn't draft Alex Smith and has no prior history with him, and he's also a lot older. Bringing in Alex Smith doesn't necessarily indicate that he's intended to be the long term starter, IMO. Bring him in for security, continue to evaluate the quarterbacks in the draft to see if you want to take Geno first overall or someone in the second to sit a little while behind Smith. If ultimately you don't want Geno and either don't like or miss out on a guy in the second, you still have a quarterback that would be a decent starter.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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1. It would cost the chiefs over $12 million to bring in Alex Smith and cut Cassel.
2. I dont think Alex Smith will renegotiate his contract for a team that wont make him the unquestioned starter
3. If Alex Smith was content with being a backup, than you would think he would stick around in SF with an $8.5 million salary.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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So now that Joeckel has probably been leap frogged by both Johnson and Fisher and Star turned out to be much smaller than advertised and was sent home with a heart condition...and Geno Smith tore up the combine...

Gotta be Geno.

The only other option (if they really hate Geno) seems to be Milliner.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm pulling for Fisher, just because I'm from Michigan and went to a MAC school. Represent!
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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People need to be careful trying to put Lane Johnson so high so quickly. This is the same way Jason Smith ascended to #2 overall that year over guys who had better film then he did. Then in hindsight everyone wondered why he went that high to begin with, but it still happens every year.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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And I don't think Geno is the total package. I don't like his mental game, the way he carries himself, and I really question his ability to lead an NFL team.

The way he talks and acts seems really forced. He really likes talking about being a leader, but he doesn't seem like a natural leader. Talking about it a lot makes it seem like he's trying to hide a deficiency.

By not liking his mental game, I'm not saying he's stupid. He just never says the right things. He either thinks too much or doesn't think enough.

I think a lockerroom will catch on to his game really quick and he might have trouble gaining the respect of his teammates.

He's a lot like Donovan McNabb as far as his personality and character are concerned. He often doesn't say the right things and he seems like the kind of guy that will rub teammates the wrong way.

I still think he should be the pick - he's obviously put himself up there with having a great workout, Joeckel having a bad combine, and Star having a medical condition, but I wanted to air out some concerns I have with him as I've been nothing but positive on the guy lately.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
People need to be careful trying to put Lane Johnson so high so quickly. This is the same way Jason Smith ascended to #2 overall that year over guys who had better film then he did. Then in hindsight everyone wondered why he went that high to begin with, but it still happens every year.
I never had him going that high. I had Oher, Monroe, and Williams ranked ahead of him. I think Lane Johnson is different. I wouldn't put him above Fisher, but I'd really consider what kind of offense I ran before I decided between Johnson and Joeckel.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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He's a lot like Donovan McNabb as far as his personality and character are concerned. He often doesn't say the right things and he seems like the kind of guy that will rub teammates the wrong way.
You could do alot worse than drafting the next Donovan McNabb. If I'm not mistaken, McNabb won a ton of games for the Eagles and passed for a ton of yards in his career.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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You could do alot worse than drafting the next Donovan McNabb. If I'm not mistaken, McNabb won a ton of games for the Eagles and passed for a ton of yards in his career.
Yeah, I'm definitely in favor of drafting Geno. I can list a lot more meaningful things I like about him than that bit that I don't like. If there's a Donovan McNabb in the draft, you take him #1 - no questions asked.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...7921--nfl.html

Well this might change things...
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Ok I'd almost rather spank my meat with sandpaper at this point.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:02 AM    (permalink
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So now that Joeckel has probably been leap frogged by both Johnson and Fisher and Star turned out to be much smaller than advertised and was sent home with a heart condition...and Geno Smith tore up the combine...

Gotta be Geno.

The only other option (if they really hate Geno) seems to be Milliner.
So Johnson and Fisher being really good prospects makes a LT less likely at #1. That makes sense.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:57 AM    (permalink
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You're...alive ?!

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Old 02-25-2013, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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I feel bad for all you chief fans now. In hope you don't over pay for Smith.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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Prior to this weekend, I didn't think Geno would go #1 (and probably still don't). But I have to give him credit, he did improve his stock at Indy and it's feasible that it happens. His time of 4.59 was considerably faster than I gave him credit for... now if Brandon Albert walks and Alex Smith shows up obviously it won't happen for KC but Geno is in the mix. Geno to AZ at 7 might be something that happens.

as for Joeckel people saying he had a bad combine should note he had a very good 3 cone time, which is extremely important for left tackles. LT aren't usually asked to run 40 yards in a straight line but they are asked to change direction quickly in a small space. He's still the #1 OT on my board (and others like Fisher, Johnson are also very good prospects).
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...or-alex-smith/

Report: Niners donít have a deal in place for Alex Smith
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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You could do alot worse than drafting the next Donovan McNabb. If I'm not mistaken, McNabb won a ton of games for the Eagles and passed for a ton of yards in his career.
He did do that. He was a 6x pro bowler who broke almost every passing record in the Eagles history.

He also dry heaved in the Super Bowl when he needed to be running 2 minute drill (also did it in a 2002 game), was injury prone, streaky production and by the end he put the chunky in cambells chunky soup. There were several years in the middle 2005-2007 where Andy was thinking about replacing him.

Im not sure how any of this relates to geno smith but in this league where the fans want Super Bowl wins or bust, mcNabb never really delivered the ultimate prize. He was real good but he wasn't great.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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as for Joeckel people saying he had a bad combine should note he had a very good 3 cone time, which is extremely important for left tackles. LT aren't usually asked to run 40 yards in a straight line but they are asked to change direction quickly in a small space. He's still the #1 OT on my board (and others like Fisher, Johnson are also very good prospects).
Joeckel apologist right here. Is that you Matt Miller?

What position in the NFL is asked to run 40 yards in a straight line? You give Geno credit for running a faster than thought 40, but when Joeckel runs a slower than anticipated 40, it isn't a big deal.

Pick a side.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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He did do that. He was a 6x pro bowler who broke almost every passing record in the Eagles history.

He also dry heaved in the Super Bowl when he needed to be running 2 minute drill (also did it in a 2002 game), was injury prone, streaky production and by the end he put the chunky in cambells chunky soup. There were several years in the middle 2005-2007 where Andy was thinking about replacing him.

Im not sure how any of this relates to geno smith but in this league where the fans want Super Bowl wins or bust, mcNabb never really delivered the ultimate prize. He was real good but he wasn't great.
Winning a Super Bowl is alot about the bounce of the ball in the right situation, and luck in the playoffs.

If things had gone differently, McNabb might have won a Super Bowl or two.

The important thing for a QB is being a consistent performer and winning 10+ games in the regular season, and then getting into the playoffs, where anything can happen.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Joeckel apologist right here. Is that you Matt Miller?

What position in the NFL is asked to run 40 yards in a straight line? You give Geno credit for running a faster than thought 40, but when Joeckel runs a slower than anticipated 40, it isn't a big deal.

Pick a side.
please read my message again Im kind of agreeing with you, Vidae. Geno had a good workout, Luke had an ok workout. That stuff matters. also note I think Geno had a better weekend than some, Rob Rang basically said he sucked in drills. (I thought he was good not great)

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/b...passing-drills

as for the details. Joeckel's 5.1 wasn't slower than expected. It just wasnt amazing. No one expected him to run a 4.8. the 3 cone is a nice number he's top 5 in all linemen in that drill. not a total disaster for Joeckel.

obviously QB and LT have different skillsets.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Winning a Super Bowl is alot about the bounce of the ball in the right situation, and luck in the playoffs.

If things had gone differently, McNabb might have won a Super Bowl or two.

The important thing for a QB is being a consistent performer and winning 10+ games in the regular season, and then getting into the playoffs, where anything can happen.

Luck didn't cause him to get sick with the game on the line. Something was wierd with Donovan when he got into certain situations he didn't deliver.

as for the "being a consistant performer" that's just relativity speaking. If you rooted a Matt ryan who lost in the playoffs every year you'd have a different song. Heck Mark Sanchez won 9 and 11 wins getting to AFC CG and fans basically want him run out of town on a rail.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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Luck didn't cause him to get sick with the game on the line. Something was wierd with Donovan when he got into certain situations he didn't deliver.

as for the "being a consistant performer" that's just relativity speaking. If you rooted a Matt ryan who lost in the playoffs every year you'd have a different song. Heck Mark Sanchez won 9 and 11 wins getting to AFC CG and fans basically want him run out of town on a rail.
Matt Ryan could easily win the Super Bowl in the next 5 years. Or he might never win the Super Bowl. In both circumstances he'd be the same consistent performer year in and year out.

What if he completes that pass in the end zone at the end of the NFCCG this past year instead of it being an incompletion due to holding by Navarro Bowman? And then he goes on to win the Super Bowl?

What if Rahim Moore bats down the Hail Mary from Joe Flacco and then Flacco still doesn't have a Super Bowl ring?

All of these events are 50/50 events that mean the difference between "winning a Super Bowl" and "not winning a Super Bowl". The outcome of 50/50 events like this doesn't change the fact that Ryan and Flacco are good solid consistent QBs.

Similarly, McNabb was exactly like Ryan and Flacco in this regard, but he just wasn't a beneficiary of these 50/50 events enough times to win the Super Bowl. That doesn't change the fact that he was a good QB that just as easily could have won the Super Bowl under different circumstances.

IF you get the next Donovan McNabb in Geno Smith, and he is a solid performer year in and year out, there's no reason he can't win a Super Bowl at some point.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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Similarly, McNabb was exactly like Ryan and Flacco in this regard, but he just wasn't a beneficiary of these 50/50 events enough times to win the Super Bowl. That doesn't change the fact that he was a good QB that just as easily could have won the Super Bowl under different circumstances.

IF you get the next Donovan McNabb in Geno Smith, and he is a solid performer year in and year out, there's no reason he can't win a Super Bowl at some point.
I agree mostly but McNabb getting sick in the super Bowl isn't a 50/50 event. it wasn't just bad luck. He had well known anxiety issues dating back to Syracuse.

not saying Geno has the same issues, just saying sometimes the flaws in college do haunt the players through their career. Will Geno throw better when players are wide open in the NFL? Will Geno play better in the snow in the NFL?

It's not a 50/50 situation tho if the Kc chiefs draft Geno and he goes on to lose playoff games in the snow, there will have been evidence of that from college. In other words there's only so much we can chalk up to luck and by and large, people don't change.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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I hope all of these Geno haters are right. I hope Geno falls all the way to #20.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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I hope all of these Geno haters are right. I hope Geno falls all the way to #20.
huh? Don't the Bears already have a Pro Bowl QB for years to come?
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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I'm a Geno hater.... but that's equivalent to 1/100th the amount of hate as I have for Alex Smith.

Take Geno #1 overall before trading for Smith!!!
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