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Old 02-26-2013, 10:15 AM    (permalink
SunTzu_22
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
Barry Sanders. Not better than Darren McFadden but apparently he is better than Jim Brown.
Did you know, that Jim Brown hasn´t scored a touchdown since 1965? Thats one long scoring drought. I dont want anyone on my team, that havent scored a touchdown for almost 50 years.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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I mean.

MAYBE this thread KIND of had a point at one place. I disagreed with what was being said, but at least I could kind of, vaguely, understand why he thought what he did (even if it was incredibly wrong).

And then he said Warrick Dunn was better than Barry Sanders.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JordanTaber View Post
Ricky Williams
Hard to get first downs and keep the clock moving when you are off in India puffin on the devil's lettuce.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JordanTaber View Post
William Andrews
Gerald Riggs
Jamal Anderson
George Rogers
Dalton Hilliard
Ricky Williams
Wendell Tyler
Roger Craig
Ricky Watters
Garrison Hearst
Frank Gore
Eric Dickerson
Greg Bell
Jerome Bettis
Curt Warner
Edgerrin James
Ahman Green
Gerry Ellis
Chuck Foreman
Robert Smith
Walter Payton
Billy Sims
Warrick Dunn
James Wilder
DeAngelo Williams
Jonathan Stewart
Stephen Davis
Tony Dorsett
Emmitt Smith
John Riggins
Wilbert Montgomery
Herschel Walker
Charlie Garner
Joe Morris
Tiki Barber
Marcus Allen
Darren McFadden
Joe Delaney
Christian Okoye
LaDainian Tomlinson
Earl Campbell
Corey Dillon
Ickey Woods
James Brooks
Fred Taylor
Maurice Jones-Drew
Barry Foster
Ray Rice
Freeman McNeil
Curtis Martin
Thurman Thomas
Joe Cribbs
O.J. Simpson
You forgot LaRod Stephens Howling, Shonn Greene and LeGarrette Blount.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JordanTaber View Post
William Andrews
Gerald Riggs
Jamal Anderson
George Rogers
Dalton Hilliard
Ricky Williams
Wendell Tyler
Roger Craig
Ricky Watters
Garrison Hearst
Frank Gore
Eric Dickerson
Greg Bell
Jerome Bettis
Curt Warner
Edgerrin James
Ahman Green
Gerry Ellis
Chuck Foreman
Robert Smith
Walter Payton
Billy Sims
Warrick Dunn
James Wilder
DeAngelo Williams
Jonathan Stewart
Stephen Davis
Tony Dorsett
Emmitt Smith
John Riggins
Wilbert Montgomery
Herschel Walker
Charlie Garner
Joe Morris
Tiki Barber
Marcus Allen
Darren McFadden
Joe Delaney
Christian Okoye
LaDainian Tomlinson
Earl Campbell
Corey Dillon
Ickey Woods
James Brooks
Fred Taylor
Maurice Jones-Drew
Barry Foster
Ray Rice
Freeman McNeil
Curtis Martin
Thurman Thomas
Joe Cribbs
O.J. Simpson
Someone should take out Warrick Dunn's 86 runs of 20+ and use the new yardage to tell JordanTaber how Warrick Dunn danced too much instead of taking TEH THREE YARDZ GAINZ.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JordanTaber View Post
William Andrews
Gerald Riggs
Jamal Anderson
George Rogers
Dalton Hilliard
Ricky Williams
Wendell Tyler
Roger Craig
Ricky Watters
Garrison Hearst
Frank Gore
Eric Dickerson
Greg Bell
Jerome Bettis
Curt Warner
Edgerrin James
Ahman Green
Gerry Ellis
Chuck Foreman
Robert Smith
Walter Payton
Billy Sims
Warrick Dunn
James Wilder
DeAngelo Williams
Jonathan Stewart
Stephen Davis
Tony Dorsett
Emmitt Smith
John Riggins
Wilbert Montgomery
Herschel Walker
Charlie Garner
Joe Morris
Tiki Barber
Marcus Allen
Darren McFadden
Joe Delaney
Christian Okoye
LaDainian Tomlinson
Earl Campbell
Corey Dillon
Ickey Woods
James Brooks
Fred Taylor
Maurice Jones-Drew
Barry Foster
Ray Rice
Freeman McNeil
Curtis Martin
Thurman Thomas
Joe Cribbs
O.J. Simpson

Freeman McNeil???
Joe Delaney??

Most of these guys are solid RBs, pro bowlers and a sprinkling of HOFers.
But Barry Sanders is just a better pure runner than all but a handful of them who you could argue were uniquely effective in their prime.

Some of these guys are just cheap imitations of Barry Sanders.
I can't knock a guy who may be the most instinctive runner to ever play the game, which isn't the same as having the greatest vision for a RB.

See the problem I have with this entire argument against Sanders is you focus soooo much on his negatives as a runner, you miss entirely ALL those brilliant things he did off-script that made him one of the greatest RBs to ever play the game.

There has never been another RB as good as Barry at making plays running the football when there was no play to be made.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard a defensive contemporary of Sanders who said, paraphrasing, 'We had him, we had 3-4 guys all converged on him, and suddenly Barry was GONE.'

The list you compiled isn't just ludicrous. It's insulting.

The Lions won only one playoff game in Sanders' entire career. That wasn't his fault.

It's telling how flawed the Lions were when EVERY team that played the Lions in the playoffs sold out to stop Sanders because they didn't believe the other 21 starters could beat them.

WHen you only give the best RB of his generation less than 18 carries in 5 of 6 playoff games, that's on the OC and HC. Not Sanders.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Just for the sake of having something I can discuss on this topic, I went to the Youtube Link given in the first post and did the closest I will ever come to a breakdown of all of Barry's plays in that clip. Enjoy, and remember I hate you all.

Thirty-Nine out of Forty Carries documented. I don't even wanna count the yards.
Barry had 194 yds in that game. The Lions won in OT.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Barry Sanders. Not better than Darren McFadden but apparently he is better than Jim Brown.
.. Adrian Peterson and Gale Sayers as well.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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See the problem I have with this entire argument against Sanders is you focus soooo much on his negatives as a runner, you miss entirely ALL those brilliant things he did off-script that made him one of the greatest RBs to ever play the game.

There has never been another RB as good as Barry at making plays running the football when there was no play to be made.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard a defensive contemporary of Sanders who said, paraphrasing, 'We had him, we had 3-4 guys all converged on him, and suddenly Barry was GONE.'
One of my favourite Barry games. There'll never be another like him.

Anyone want to count the yds after contact/missed tackles?

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Old 02-26-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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to validate your initial statement, you would have to pass on sanders for players like mewelde moore and kregg lumpkin, not walter payton. if the average top 90 runningback (roughly 30 teams in the league, and 3 halfback roster slots) for each season is in the nfl for ~4 years and we take a pool of players from the past 20 years (back to 1993), that means you have to provide a list of 450 runningbacks you want more than sanders of active players since 1993, being conservative.

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Old 02-26-2013, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson isn't on your list so you like Barry more but wouldn't ever want him on your team. So you wouldn't want Adrian Peterson on your team...
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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One of my favourite Barry games. There'll never be another like him.

Anyone want to count the yds after contact/missed tackles?


Damn. Even I forget sometimes how great Barry Sanders was. That entire game was essentially a highlight reel.

I still don't understand in hindsight what JT's point in starting this thread was even about.

There's maybe 5 RBs in the history of the NFL you might take over Sanders, and you still couldn't say any of them were better than he was with the football in his hands.
He did so many little things well as a runner that 95% of most pro backs could never do.

I don't think you're a dumb guy, Jordan. But the underlying argument behind this thread, that Sanders somehow is overrated, is just trolling.

AD is his own man as a RB and takes a backseat to no one at his position, but even he can't do the things Sanders could do on a football field.

Oh yeah, your questioning Sanders effectiveness as a WR, just insanity.
That was all about playcalling, not his ability.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Barry Sanders. Not better than Darren McFadden but apparently he is better than Jim Brown.
I didn't say that. I've never seen Jim Brown, so I didn't list him.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Freeman McNeil???
Joe Delaney??
I got the sense in limited exposure to Joe Delaney on DVDs I'd ordered that he was going to be pretty special. Unfortunately, he died and never got the chance to.

Freeman McNeil was awesome. Couldn't stay healthy, but I'm not looking for a 10 year back. I'm looking for 4-5 years, and then I'll bring in the next one. That's how the position generally works. I want the back to give it everything he has until he wears out, then I'll move onto the next one. If he lasts like Walter Payton or Emmitt Smith, that's a bonus.


Quote:
Most of these guys are solid RBs, pro bowlers and a sprinkling of HOFers.
But Barry Sanders is just a better pure runner than all but a handful of them who you could argue were uniquely effective in their prime.

Some of these guys are just cheap imitations of Barry Sanders.
I can't knock a guy who may be the most instinctive runner to ever play the game, which isn't the same as having the greatest vision for a RB.

See the problem I have with this entire argument against Sanders is you focus soooo much on his negatives as a runner, you miss entirely ALL those brilliant things he did off-script that made him one of the greatest RBs to ever play the game.
I didn't miss them. I just don't think the positives outweigh the negatives by enough. I feel like consistency is important for a running back. Barry was consistently inconsistent.

There are so many backs who can do the things you want from a running back that Barry didn't do enough of, that I don't think the tradeoff for more big plays is worth it.

Quote:
There has never been another RB as good as Barry at making plays running the football when there was no play to be made.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard a defensive contemporary of Sanders who said, paraphrasing, 'We had him, we had 3-4 guys all converged on him, and suddenly Barry was GONE.'

The list you compiled isn't just ludicrous. It's insulting.

The Lions won only one playoff game in Sanders' entire career. That wasn't his fault.
I would never blame one player for a team failure.

Still...13 carries, -1 yards in a 16-12 loss to the Packers in a 94 NFC wildcard playoff game. How could he not be part of the failure in a game like that?

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It's telling how flawed the Lions were when EVERY team that played the Lions in the playoffs sold out to stop Sanders because they didn't believe the other 21 starters could beat them.

WHen you only give the best RB of his generation less than 18 carries in 5 of 6 playoff games, that's on the OC and HC. Not Sanders.
Or they just abandoned a guy who totaled -1 yards on 13 carries. At what point do you just say, "Enough. We need to start throwing the football?"

The Lions offense had a guy named "Herman Moore." He was pretty ******* good. Really ******* good, in fact. I don't think people realize how good he was. Top 5 of the mid-90s. They also got production out of Perriman and Morton with their scheme. Kevin Glover was a beast. Lomas Brown was solid. Jeff Hartings was rock solid.

The Lions had a pretty good collection of talent on offense in the 90s. But their biggest star had flaws that were downplayed by the media and fans.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Someone should take out Warrick Dunn's 86 runs of 20+ and use the new yardage to tell JordanTaber how Warrick Dunn danced too much instead of taking TEH THREE YARDZ GAINZ.
Warrick Dunn wasn't a dancer, he was a north-south guy.

If someone wants to do calculations, be my guest.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Warrick Dunn wasn't a dancer, he was a north-south guy.

If someone wants to do calculations, be my guest.
while we're on the subject of dancers:

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Old 02-26-2013, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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I got the sense in limited exposure to Joe Delaney on DVDs I'd ordered that he was going to be pretty special. Unfortunately, he died and never got the chance to.
This just in: Barry Sanders isn't even as good as a dead guy.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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to validate your initial statement, you would have to pass on sanders for players like mewelde moore and kregg lumpkin, not walter payton. if the average top 90 runningback (roughly 30 teams in the league, and 3 halfback roster slots) for each season is in the nfl for ~4 years and we take a pool of players from the past 20 years (back to 1993), that means you have to provide a list of 450 runningbacks you want more than sanders of active players since 1993, being conservative.
No, I wouldn't want Mewelde Moore or Kregg Lumpkin on my team, either. Not as starters, anyway.

The thread is titled, "Why I Would Never Want Barry Sanders On My Team," not, "Why I Would Take Every Running Back Who Ever Played the Game Over Barry Sanders."
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I just tallied how many negative rushing plays Stevan Ridley had last year as a frame of reference to Sanders. Ridley is pretty much the kind of back that JT describes as being a good complement to a passing offense. With that in mind Ridley had 28 negative plays on 290 carries for an average of a negative play every ~9.7% of the time, whereas Sanders had a career average of a negative play every 11% of the time.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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The thread is titled, "Why I Would Never Want Barry Sanders On My Team," not, "Why I Would Take Every Running Back Who Ever Played the Game Over Barry Sanders."
Probably a good thing, because the other thread title would be totally dumb!
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Saying you would never take a guy who is considered to be one of the best ever and is a HoFer just shows that you are overly rigid. With Sanders, the good vastly outweighs his negatives. I respect that you try to support your opinion, but to say that you would never want him on your team is just silly.


Did I miss some one throwing in Wes Welker for his consistency and production? The purpose of a good slot WR is to consistently gain yards, get 1st downs, and be keep the offense rolling.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Saying you would never take a guy who is considered to be one of the best ever and is a HoFer just shows that you are overly rigid. With Sanders, the good vastly outweighs his negatives. I respect that you try to support your opinion, but to say that you would never want him on your team is just silly.


Did I miss some one throwing in Wes Welker for his consistency and production? The purpose of a good slot WR is to consistently gain yards, get 1st downs, and be keep the offense rolling.
I'd take Welker on my team as a #3 receiver. I wouldn't throw him 120 passes per year, and he's not one of the Top 30 WRs in the NFL currently.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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No, I wouldn't want Mewelde Moore or Kregg Lumpkin on my team, either. Not as starters, anyway.

The thread is titled, "Why I Would Never Want Barry Sanders On My Team," not, "Why I Would Take Every Running Back Who Ever Played the Game Over Barry Sanders."
you have to fill your depth chart at runningback somehow, and chances are you aren't going to get more than one of those guys you listed, if you are even able to get one of them on your team. it's not like the 1993 lions could just summon walter payton. maybe if your argument was "why barry sanders is not one of the greatest ever to play his position" then your statements would at least be open for discussion, but you are trying to say that you wouldn't want sanders on your roster and listing just 50 players from a 50 year time period. your list should include at least 1000 other names unless in your world the league consists of only 4 teams with players whose careers last twice as long.

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Old 02-27-2013, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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you have to fill your depth chart at runningback somehow, and chances are you aren't going to get more than one of those guys you listed, if you are even able to get one of them on your team. it's not like the 1993 lions could just summon walter payton. maybe if your argument was "why barry sanders is not one of the greatest ever to play his position" then your statements would at least be open for discussion, but you are trying to say that you wouldn't want sanders on your roster and listing just 50 players from a 50 year time period. your list should include at least 1000 other names unless in your world the league consists of only 4 teams with players whose careers last twice as long.
I didn't list everyone I would take over him...I was just running through top backs from each team over the years off the top of my head.

There's also the simple fact that you can't always get what you want. If I couldn't get the back I wanted, I'd have to settle for the best I could do until I could.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:02 AM    (permalink
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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