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Old 02-28-2013, 06:41 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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Sooo...

1: Desmond Trufant
2: Cornelius Washington
3: Khaseem Greene
4: Jordan Hill

Dream draft?
my current thinking is:

1. CB Desmond Trufant
2. OL Barrett Jones
3. LB Sio Moore
4. LB Gerald Moore
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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BBD, just by what you said about Hill, I am now in love with him. I remember a couple of years ago, you said the exact same things about another DT prospect. He now plays for the Bengals, and was the best DT in the league last year.

If your radar is correct on pass-rushing DTs again, I want Hill to be a Giant. Badly.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, If we just got Trufant, I wouldn't even care as much what happens the rest of the draft. He is my favorite prospect. I think he's going to become one of the best CBs in the league in two years time.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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BBD, just by what you said about Hill, I am now in love with him. I remember a couple of years ago, you said the exact same things about another DT prospect. He now plays for the Bengals, and was the best DT in the league last year.

If your radar is correct on pass-rushing DTs again, I want Hill to be a Giant. Badly.
Check him out. Tell me what you think. You'll see some of him on youtube.

And to be fair, I had no idea Geno was gonna be this good. Like I liked him a lot and thought he'd be a good contributor to us, but I'd be lying to you if I said I knew he'd be this good. That's what makes it hurt so much more </3
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Check him out. Tell me what you think. You'll see some of him on youtube.

And to be fair, I had no idea Geno was gonna be this good. Like I liked him a lot and thought he'd be a good contributor to us, but I'd be lying to you if I said I knew he'd be this good. That's what makes it hurt so much more </3
Watched the Wisconsin tape on Youtube now. Man, I totally see what you mean!

His lateral agility and ability to disengage before moving laterally was beastly. And he also got good penetration and sacks on several occasions. Particularly the Wisconsin LG got ragdolled by him multiple times.

But the thing I probably liked the most were that he really stood out on the last drive in the 4th quarter! He was constantly making plays on the running back and putting pressure on the QB.

It's a small sample size for me of course, but if he's available at any point after the second, I say we pounce.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Watched the Wisconsin tape on Youtube now. Man, I totally see what you mean!

His lateral agility and ability to disengage before moving laterally was beastly. And he also got good penetration and sacks on several occasions. Particularly the Wisconsin LG got ragdolled by him multiple times.

But the thing I probably liked the most were that he really stood out on the last drive in the 4th quarter! He was constantly making plays on the running back and putting pressure on the QB.

It's a small sample size for me of course, but if he's available at any point after the second, I say we pounce.
Yeah I was very impressed. He looked very good at the Senior Bowl too. Then I went and looked at him vs Ohio State and Nebraska. Did great every time.

So I'm sold on him. But it seems like he's not generating any buzz. It seems like his grade is 3rd or 4th round right now.

And if he's there we gotta go for it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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I still think we just look at cheap FA to plug in at DT.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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I'd love if we spent a 3rd on a DT if Hill is there though. It's not a big investment and we'd get a productive player.

I hate 1st round DTs in general (although I do like some of this group) but I do like DT value after that. Especially the Jordan Hills of the world. Right now his type of DT is excellent value in the draft. They fall.

Guys who are purely 4-3 UTs who penetrate and are considered "too small" to be every down players are looked at as 3rd and 4th rounders, when their actual value is much greater to a team bc your nickel defense is your base defense anyway now.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Here is some analysis on Ezekiel Ansah from http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...sah?id=2539931

Quote:
Strengths

Combination of size, length, and foot speed is nearly unparalleled. Delivers solid first contact that jolts opponent back. Continues to press and locate ball carriers in the backfield. Consistently sheds at the line of scrimmage, envelopes his target with a strong grasp and outstanding closing burst. Flashes the complete package, specifically when rushing from the edge on passing downs. When lining up inside a natural anchor shows up, helped by low pad level off the snap. Burst off of extension is counter move, gains significant ground on target. Obvious coaching on technique is absorbed and implemented.


Weaknesses

Has admitted to a lack of stamina. Fatigue is noticeable after a few plays of rushing the passer. In those circumstances, does not chase the play down from the backside, instead staying at the line of scrimmage to knock down the pass. Technique is not always there, specifically on the edge against the run. Frequently gives up the wrong arm or shoulder to blockers, takes himself out of the play. Hand fights at the line against the run rather than driving or penetrating to disrupt. A hit or miss player on the field but consistency is growing.

NFL Comparison Justin Tuck


Bottom Line

It is amazing how far Ansah’s technique has come in such a short amount of time, not to mention how much he has transformed his body to fit the role coaches want him to play. That sizable frame coupled with outstanding closing speed and natural power will captivate many, making a top-20 selection possible. Ansah is rough around the edges, but the number of height/weight/speed athletes with positional versatility selected in that area in recent years point to a rise up draft boards.
I found the comments on his stamina interesting, obviously he needs to work on it. This guy is going to take time to develop, NFL lineman are going to dominate him until he gets his techniques sorted.

I really think there is a good chance that he could be there at #19

A lot of teams are looking for instant results in the draft, there is a definate trend/expectation for highly drafted guys to be able to be plugged in and impact early; that isn't going to happen with Ansah, he is very raw by college standards let alone what he will face in the NFL.

The Giants are one of the few teams that take the longer term view and are patient enough to allow these premium draft picks the time to develop.

I also like his comparison to Tuck a better fit than JPP
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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If he's there I'll do backflips. But he's not gonna be there.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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Here is some analysis on Ezekiel Ansah from http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...sah?id=2539931



I found the comments on his stamina interesting, obviously he needs to work on it. This guy is going to take time to develop, NFL lineman are going to dominate him until he gets his techniques sorted.

I really think there is a good chance that he could be there at #19

A lot of teams are looking for instant results in the draft, there is a definate trend/expectation for highly drafted guys to be able to be plugged in and impact early; that isn't going to happen with Ansah, he is very raw by college standards let alone what he will face in the NFL.

The Giants are one of the few teams that take the longer term view and are patient enough to allow these premium draft picks the time to develop.

I also like his comparison to Tuck a better fit than JPP
Stamina being one of the biggest knocks on him is great. Stamina issues are easily correctable. Get him with an NFL S&C coach, nutritionist, etc and it will be solved. He doesn't have poor work ethic so it's not for that reason at all.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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If he's there I'll do backflips. But he's not gonna be there.
I think there is a chance, I am not sure it is likely.

I would be quite happy if we traded up to get him, our 1st and 3rd gives us around #15 value, whereas our 1st and 2nd gives us around #10 value.

There are a lot of teams that will want to trade down this year, I could see teams like Buffalo and Tennesse being quite willing to trade down.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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I think there is a chance, I am not sure it is likely.

I would be quite happy if we traded up to get him, our 1st and 3rd gives us around #15 value, whereas our 1st and 2nd gives us around #10 value.

There are a lot of teams that will want to trade down this year, I could see teams like Buffalo and Tennesse being quite willing to trade down.
I'll be ok with moving up, but I'd prefer not to. I think we are in position to get a tremendous value pick at 19, plus we have a lot of needs with our roster being made over. We need our picks.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Pete, you check out Hill yet?

Check out Hill and Hodges from Penn State.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Stamina being one of the biggest knocks on him is great. Stamina issues are easily correctable. Get him with an NFL S&C coach, nutritionist, etc and it will be solved. He doesn't have poor work ethic so it's not for that reason at all.
I totally agree, this guy is going to need time to work on his strength, stamina and technique. He is much more raw than JPP when he came out.

His first year is going to be basically a redshirt year with him mainly contributing on special teams and as a situational pass rusher.

Having a veteran mentor like Tuck would be a big benefit as well.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Pete, you check out Hill yet?

Check out Hill and Hodges from Penn State.
I haven't seen alot of Hill yet, but from what I have found out about, I do really like him quite a bit. I have been reserving my judgement while waiting to find more info.

I think Hill is likely to be a disruptive 4-3 UT imho, he seems a bit like a Corey Simon type of guy.

I do like Hodges for sure, I think he could be a steal if he is there in the 4th.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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I'll be ok with moving up, but I'd prefer not to. I think we are in position to get a tremendous value pick at 19, plus we have a lot of needs with our roster being made over. We need our picks.
I am actually not that enthused with our second round pick at the moment. I think we are likely to miss out on that second tier of guys at our need positions and can likely find similar talent at our needs in the third (unless someone slips)

Whereas I see Ansah as a geniune game changer, the kind of guy that is well worth a second round pick.

I also think NYG is the ideal spot for him to land, it is a near perfect match of talent and need. With us keeping Tuck he has time to develop and learn his craft, plus we have had proven success moulding JPP in recent years. Most other teams would throw him on the field well before he is ready.

You also have to look at the future, in a couple of years JPP will be on his big deal, Tuck and Kiwi likely gone (or careers winding down) and a guy like Ansah on his rookie deal seems ideal cap wise.

I completely understand the need to get the most value for our picks, but every draft has some unique talents that are exceptions, I truly believe Ansah (in the right situation) is that kind of player

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Old 02-28-2013, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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I'd love if we spent a 3rd on a DT if Hill is there though. It's not a big investment and we'd get a productive player.

I hate 1st round DTs in general (although I do like some of this group) but I do like DT value after that. Especially the Jordan Hills of the world. Right now his type of DT is excellent value in the draft. They fall.

Guys who are purely 4-3 UTs who penetrate and are considered "too small" to be every down players are looked at as 3rd and 4th rounders, when their actual value is much greater to a team bc your nickel defense is your base defense anyway now.
For me a first round DT has to be truly unique talent. None of the DTs this year really grab me as that type of dominant guy.

"Undersized" players can do quite well, just look at players like Geno Atkins, Corey Simon, Warren Sapp, La'Roi Golver etc who were shorter than ideal

I actually think disruptive 1 gap DTs are a good fit in our NASCAR packages.


Other under rated DTs that I like and are on my radar are Brandon Williams (Missouri Southern) and Bennie Logan (LSU)
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Trust me, Id love Ansah. But we can't fall in love with 1 guy. I think there's some great pass rushers in this draft. I like Dion Jordan a lot. I like Mingo a lot. Mingo reminds me of Von Miller. A smart DC (aka not Perry Fewell) can use him in a similar fashion as Von. And for the record, we do NOT use Kiwi the same way Denver uses Von Miller. Not even close.

I also like Washington obviously. Tank intrigues me. Gotta look into Jamie Collins.

We have options. I like Sheldon Richardson, Jordan Hill. Gotta look at the other DTs I haven't gotten to all of them yet.

I like Arthur Brown, Gerald Hodges at LB. Gotta study Oggletree, Moore, and some of the other guys.

We have options. CBs are good this year as well. So are the safeties.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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I used to be very big on getting value in the draft and generally that is the case, but I have also come to realise that some players are worth trading up, particularly if they are a good fit for you.

Take the Eli Manning trade. At the time I didn't like it, I thought we gave up too much. But I do think Manning was the ideal fit for us (by a wide margin)and has been one of the keys to our sucess under Coughlin.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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I used to be very big on getting value in the draft and generally that is the case, but I have also come to realise that some players are worth trading up, particularly if they are a good fit for you.

Take the Eli Manning trade. At the time I didn't like it, I thought we gave up too much. But I do think Manning was the ideal fit for us (by a wide margin)and has been one of the keys to our sucess under Coughlin.
Eli is a qb though. I'm all for moving up to get your qb. But you can't constantly move up for prospects, it cripples your depth.

Look at the Jets. They're in the mess they're in now bc they always gave up draft picks to get certain guys and never built up any depth as a result. You gotta have depth.

I'm in favor of moving up for quarterbacks. I'm in favor of moving up for a guy when you already have good depth and can afford to. But for us right now, with our roster makeover coming up, I just don't think we can afford to give up picks. These picks are gonna reshape our roster. We need to not only keep all of them, but we need to hit on a lot of them too.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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Trust me, Id love Ansah. But we can't fall in love with 1 guy. I think there's some great pass rushers in this draft. I like Dion Jordan a lot. I like Mingo a lot. Mingo reminds me of Von Miller. A smart DC (aka not Perry Fewell) can use him in a similar fashion as Von. And for the record, we do NOT use Kiwi the same way Denver uses Von Miller. Not even close.

I also like Washington obviously. Tank intrigues me. Gotta look into Jamie Collins.

We have options. I like Sheldon Richardson, Jordan Hill. Gotta look at the other DTs I haven't gotten to all of them yet.

I like Arthur Brown, Gerald Hodges at LB. Gotta study Oggletree, Moore, and some of the other guys. I want to find out about Jamie Collins and Jelani Jenkins. I am curious about Trevardo Williams as a SLB option. Seems like there is a lot of very good LBs likely available in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

We have options. CBs are good this year as well. So are the safeties.
I totally agree, but in this case I think he is worth trading up for; if it doesn't happen thats fine.


LBs I like are Moore and Hodges; I like Brown but want to find out about his shoulder. Greene could be excellent value as well.

DTs I like are Hill and Brandon Williams.

I like Tank in the second round; I do like Margus Hunt as a third round developmental DE; he needs development; but we has the tools and work ethic. Along with Jordan (who will be off the board when we pick), they are the main DEs I like, the others don't really interest me too much.


I am not sure on Washington, something about this guy scares me, He would be good value in mid rounds, but I doubt he is there. I don't want Mingo, I see much the same concerns that Washignton has; there is no reason on that defense that Mingo shouldn't have produced.

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Old 02-28-2013, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Eli is a qb though. I'm all for moving up to get your qb. But you can't constantly move up for prospects, it cripples your depth.

Look at the Jets. They're in the mess they're in now bc they always gave up draft picks to get certain guys and never built up any depth as a result. You gotta have depth.

I'm in favor of moving up for quarterbacks. I'm in favor of moving up for a guy when you already have good depth and can afford to. But for us right now, with our roster makeover coming up, I just don't think we can afford to give up picks. These picks are gonna reshape our roster. We need to not only keep all of them, but we need to hit on a lot of them too.
We aren't the Jets, their problems aren't from the draft. They come back to the FA contracts they signed, that more than anything else is what crippled them (Harris, Bradford, Holmes, Revis, Pace, Mangold, Ferguson etc); I looked at it recently abnd they had around $81m of their 2013 cap in seven players; plus the way they structured them there is very little wiggle room. That leaves $40m for 44 players, including dead money, rookie contracts etc.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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I'm really interested in Jonathon Cooper, the OG from UNC. He SCREAMS Giants pick to me. Amazing athletic ability for a guy his size and is great at pulling. Incredibly smart too.

I would not be upset if we chose him at 19 if he's there. He's almost as good as Warmack in my opinion.

I'm planning on watching some more film on him though.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:46 AM    (permalink
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I'm really interested in Jonathon Cooper, the OG from UNC. He SCREAMS Giants pick to me. Amazing athletic ability for a guy his size and is great at pulling. Incredibly smart too.

I would not be upset if we chose him at 19 if he's there. He's almost as good as Warmack in my opinion.

I'm planning on watching some more film on him though.
Cooper is becoming one of my preferred options as well

I still like Fluker as well.
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