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Old 02-27-2013, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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ON my birfday I get dis :(
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm kinda torn between it. I'm not so sure Smith is an upgrade over cassel, but you almost gotta trust Reid and Dorsey right? THey've been around good QB's for awhile(Rodgers, McNabb, Favre). So it makes you think that if they didn't think Geno, or Barkley have that franchise QB talent then why would you even take a risk? It's like the guy who bets snake eyes at craps all the time...He's taking a big risk, but he knows the payout won't pay out hardly at all.


That being said, I'm tired of being the franchise where QB's go to die. Even in the good years, with a stud Tight End, Smith put up very "bleh" numbers and doesn't look like much of an upgrade. It's like upgrading from a Volkswagon beetle to a yugo....still ain't gonna get laid in that ****.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
TheMatriculator
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From my perspective, you trust people until they give you reason not to trust them. Reid and Dorsey did just that with a trade that smells of panic.

They paid a premium price for a QB that the other team didn't want and was trying to unload. Doesn't this remind you of four years ago and the Matt Cassel trade. Oh wait, back then we got more (they threw in Vrabel) and gave up less (there was no conditional draft choice involved). OMG, I'm starting to miss Pioli.

Andy and John better pray that Geno really is a bust and Alex Smith (a guy who has only had one good year in his career) has another career year.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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If Geno goes #3 to the Raiders and becomes a star, they just signed their own pink slips. It really is that simple. It won't be long before banners are flying over Arrowhead again and the seats are empty.

They chose the cowards way out. Settle for mediocrity instead of striving for greatness. They clearly bought into the whole "they're only a QB away" mantra instead of evaluating the roster for themselves. No team is one player away, and the Chiefs sure as hell weren't one Alex Smith away from contending for a title.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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If I could ask Clark Hunt I'd like to ask him one question: Why won't this team EVER even TRY to draft and develop their own QB? 1983. The last time the Chiefs really even tried. 1987. That's the last time that a drafted QB won a game for the Chiefs. It's almost as if the Hunt Family has made a Chiefs' law for any GM they hire that "You Shall Not Draft and Develop A QB". I know that sounds ridiculous. And maybe it is. But, on the surface, it certainly appears this franchise just will not even make the attempt again. 1983.

I guess the question that remains is where do we go from here? Scott Pioli trading for Matt Cassel wasn't a terrible move...initially. What made the move terrible and what ultimately got him fired was making that move and then acting like they were done at the QB position. And ultimately Matt Cassel proving to not be the guy. Will Dorsey and Reid make the same mistake?

With them giving up the #34 overall pick, that leads one to believe they aren't going QB at 1/1 (they probably weren't anyway): Hello Luke Joeckel. Because they'll find a reason not to re-sign Branden Albert.

I think the Chiefs/Reid/Dorsey have pretty much gone all-in with Alex Smith. And this is a move eerily similar, at least at first blush, to what Pioli did with Cassel. But I think Dorsey/Reid would be absolute fools to stop with Alex Smith. Alex Smith's best year was a 3100 yard 17 TD 5 INT season with a team with, arguably, more talent on it than the Chiefs. Oh...btw...in 8 seasons Alex Smith has only played 16 games TWICE. That fact alone should make them want to find another QB.

I really hope that the Chiefs are still targeting another guy in this draft to hopefully develop. They probably won't do it, but if it were me and Tyler Bray or EJ Manuel or someone were still on the board at the top of the 3rd round, I'd pull the trigger. Because Alex Smith has proven that at his best he's mediocre. 3100 yards 17 TD and 5 INTs screams mediocrity. We consider Matt Cassel mediocre at best and his best year was better than that. And he's only a couple weeks from getting ran out of KC.

I know the Chiefs have a good amount of holes they need to fill in the draft. And I know that it may seem like a bad move to still target another QB in the 3rd round. But I really feel the Chiefs would be doing themselves a favor by going QB in round 3 if someone like Bray or Manuel are still on the board. It's a QBs league. And the only two under contract for next year are Smith and Stanzi. And, as mentioned, Alex Smith is no stranger to missing games. So I really hope the Chiefs aren't done there. I really don't like this trade. But I can at least stomach it if they can get a guy in the draft that has potential to develop into a starter. They won't do it, of course. But it'd make me feel better as a long-time die-hard fan if they did.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
If Geno goes #3 to the Raiders and becomes a star, they just signed their own pink slips. It really is that simple. It won't be long before banners are flying over Arrowhead again and the seats are empty.

They chose the cowards way out. Settle for mediocrity instead of striving for greatness. They clearly bought into the whole "they're only a QB away" mantra instead of evaluating the roster for themselves. No team is one player away, and the Chiefs sure as hell weren't one Alex Smith away from contending for a title.
I agree 100% with everything you said there. Dorsey and Andy Reid better hope that no QB goes in the top 10 and goes on to success.

It's the same thing this organization has done for decades. Try and get a QB from another team that that team no longer wants and hope he can be our franchise guy. It's the same episode with different actors. Let's just hope the results are better.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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At the end of the day my biggest problem with this trade is this:

QB is still the #1 need for this team.

You can argue it all you want, but if Smith isn't a long term solution (he isn't) then QB is EASILY the #1 need for the team. You need to get a guy in camp who you believe can be that guy. If Barkley or Tyler Wilson are there in the third, they need to be the pick. Nothing else is as important as finding that franchise guy, and Alex Smith isn't it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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This might be my last post because I think my head is going to explode if I hear one more person say:

"Well, I'll have to defer to Andy on that."
or
"Andy knows best."
or
"True fans don't give up."

The last one might get put in jail for trying to strangle someone.

Well, there's always the Royals. OMG
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:29 AM    (permalink
Hermstheman83
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From my perspective, you trust people until they give you reason not to trust them. Reid and Dorsey did just that with a trade that smells of panic.

They paid a premium price for a QB that the other team didn't want and was trying to unload. Doesn't this remind you of four years ago and the Matt Cassel trade. Oh wait, back then we got more (they threw in Vrabel) and gave up less (there was no conditional draft choice involved). OMG, I'm starting to miss Pioli.

Andy and John better pray that Geno really is a bust and Alex Smith (a guy who has only had one good year in his career) has another career year.
It does remind me of the Matt Cassel trade. I'm not going to argue that. But with Reid's success with quarterbacks(He did make Vick look like a legit QB in the league) and Dorsey(I believe he had a significant hand in drafting Rodgers) you have to give a little leeway right? I know it's been a long time since we drafted a QB, but what happens in say three-four years Geno or Barkley end up flaming out in the league? On the other hand, IF(A big IF, I know) we ended up taking Geno Smith and he turned out to be worse than Brodie Croyle, would you still be angry that this trade didn't go down?

It sucks man, but maybe they didn't think the top guys were worth the number one pick.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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It does remind me of the Matt Cassel trade. I'm not going to argue that. But with Reid's success with quarterbacks(He did make Vick look like a legit QB in the league) and Dorsey(I believe he had a significant hand in drafting Rodgers) you have to give a little leeway right? I know it's been a long time since we drafted a QB, but what happens in say three-four years IF Geno or Barkley end up flaming out in the league? On the other hand, IF(A big IF, I know) we ended up taking Geno Smith and IF he turned out to be worse than Brodie Croyle, would you still be angry that this trade didn't go down?

It sucks man, but maybe they didn't think the top guys were worth the number one pick.
There were a lot of IFs in your post, Herm (I added a few that were implied).

It really isn't about drafting a QB although I'll admit that I probably now agree with vidae that drafting a QB is necessary for creating a champion and not a one-and-done squeak into the playoffs team. A lot of my anger is about Alex Smith. He simply isn't that good and never will be. That's why the Niners were so eager to unload him so soon after Kaepernick took over.

Sure, Reid is good with quarterbacks, but so is Jim Harbaugh. Harbaugh was QB coach with the Raiders when they (and Rich Gannon) went to the Super Bowl. He was Andrew Luck's coach at Stanford. He has gotten Alex Smith to be an effective game manager QB. Look at Smith before Harbaugh...not as good as Cassel...not nearly as good. Do the Chiefs think that Reid can get more out of Alex than Harbaugh did? And I thought Pioli was arrogant.

I've heard the talking heads on ESPN refer to Alex Smith as an "ascending quarterback." Ascending my wrinkled old ass! Niner management understands the wisdom of selling high and getting out before the market crashes.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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It does remind me of the Matt Cassel trade. I'm not going to argue that. But with Reid's success with quarterbacks(He did make Vick look like a legit QB in the league) and Dorsey(I believe he had a significant hand in drafting Rodgers) you have to give a little leeway right? I know it's been a long time since we drafted a QB, but what happens in say three-four years Geno or Barkley end up flaming out in the league? On the other hand, IF(A big IF, I know) we ended up taking Geno Smith and he turned out to be worse than Brodie Croyle, would you still be angry that this trade didn't go down?

It sucks man, but maybe they didn't think the top guys were worth the number one pick.
You wrote a very good post there. Let me interject something. When situations like this arise we always ask, "what if we draft so and so and he fails...?". That's a very legit question. But I feel that's always the reliable fall back. Let's explore the other side, "What if we draft so and so and he succeeds...?". I think the frustration comes from the fact that we'll never know because this franchise will never even try it. I almost feel like even if we had the #1 pick last year they would rather trade that pick for a dozen draft picks than draft Andrew Luck. I know that sounds ridiculous. But 30 years is along time. And we've never been in the situation, since the merger, that we had the #1 pick in the draft and could select any QB we wanted.

It's true. Geno or Barkely or whoever could fail. Most QBs do. But I think, at some point, the Chiefs are going to have to stop thinking, "what if we draft so and so and they fail...?" and start thinking, "what if we draft so and so at QB and they succeed...?"

The absolute worst thing that could happen now is if the Chiefs take Joeckel, who will be a very fine pro, and Geno goes #3 to the Raiders and Barkley goes #7 to the Cardinals and one or both of them go on to pro-bowls and playoff wins and the Chiefs are still meandering between 6-10 and 10-6 and never winning a playoff game and Alex Smith is no more than what we've already seen of him. Not saying that will happen. Just saying that's an awfully big negative if that comes to fruition.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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The sad part is I think that's exactly what will happen.

I'm way higher on Geno than most, but I see a future star in the NFL when I look at him, and if he goes #3 and turns the Raiders into a contender, it will seriously cripple what little respect I have left for this organization.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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The sad part is I think that's exactly what will happen.

I'm way higher on Geno than most, but I see a future star in the NFL when I look at him, and if he goes #3 and turns the Raiders into a contender, it will seriously cripple what little respect I have left for this organization.
You certainly won't be the only one. I've been a fan for 50 years and discontent is at an all time high. There was more apathy during the Jim Shaaf/Jack Steadman era but not the anger and outrage that we saw this year. I'll supply the feathers if someone else can get the tar.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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OMG, is this post #500

I should clarify my previous post for you young fellers. Back in the Jim Shaaf/Jack Steadman era we had the Royals. The Ewing Kauffman Royals not the WalMart Royals. At least there was something to look forward to back then. Now, it's just more clown school.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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For the first time maybe ever I have lost the desire to even watch the draft. I mean what's the point?

They are taking Joeckel #1 and then they don't pick again till the 3rd round.

Then they will probably take some QB between rounds 4-7 no one has ever heard of to say "We drafted a rookie QB."

*Sigh*
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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For the first time maybe ever I have lost the desire to even watch the draft. I mean what's the point?

They are taking Joeckel #1 and then they don't pick again till the 3rd round.

Then they will probably take some QB between rounds 4-7 no one has ever heard of to say "We drafted a rookie QB."

*Sigh*
Yeah as soon as we traded for Alex Smith all the real desire I had for the draft just completely died. I get to watch the first pick be a ******* OT we don't need and then watch them sit there as the second pick in the second round is selected by another team.

Bleh bleh bleh.
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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For the first time maybe ever I have lost the desire to even watch the draft. I mean what's the point?

They are taking Joeckel #1 and then they don't pick again till the 3rd round.

Then they will probably take some QB between rounds 4-7 no one has ever heard of to say "We drafted a rookie QB."

*Sigh*
I'm with you. I'm one who get's super excited for the draft each year. This year...not so much. I mentioned a while back on another forum (before the Alex Smith rumors) that I had a bad feeling they were going to find some way to get to Joeckel at #1 overall. And they did. He's going to be the pick. And I just cannot get excited about it. Like I've said before, Joeckel will be a fine pro. Maybe even go to a few pro-bowls. But, as important as LTs are, and they are important, they don't win games for you. If they did then Joe Thomas and Jake Long and Ryan Clady would have been in SBs by now. But they aren't. It's a QB driven league. And we just traded 2 premium picks for a QB who, statistically, is no better than the one we're currently running out of town on a rail.

I'll just never understand the Chiefs. Same ole' same ole' with them. Whenever they need a QB their first inclination and only inclination is always going to be to scan the depth charts of other teams to find their solution. And that's not how you do business at that position in the NFL. Sure there are exceptions. Drew Brees definitely. Matt Schaub to a much lesser degree (although I seriously question him). Peyton Manning is an extremely rare circumstance. This was the PERFECT year to draft and develop our own QB because we have talent on the roster the rookie could come in and be successful with. We make the re-signings we should make, Geno Smith, or whoever they drafted, would have a very young and solid O-Line, one of the 3 or 4 best RBs in the league. A #1 WR to throw to. And a HC and coaching staff that is better than the ones they replaced. But, here we are again. Doing the same thing the Chiefs always do. Go after someone elses's castoffs in hopes he'll be our franchise guy.

Almost all the truly successful teams in this league are doing it with QBs that they have drafted and developed in to high quality throwers of the football. I'm a nobody in the football world. I certainly don't get paid millions of dollars to make these observations. But it's clear as day how it's done in the league. Yet, all these football geniuses at 1 Arrowhead Drive cannot see it. And this proves that they probably never will. And that's probably the saddest thing of all.

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Old 03-04-2013, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Bowe/Albert/Colquitt retained for next year.

That earns back a little trust I had with them before today, but the draft is really going to be the key.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Tyson Jackson restructured too, obviously.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Bowe/Albert/Colquitt retained for next year.

That earns back a little trust I had with them before today, but the draft is really going to be the key.
Albert is not willing to play on the Right side. Tag isnt truly in effect until he signs it. Possible we lift the tag?
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Albert is not willing to play on the Right side. Tag isnt truly in effect until he signs it. Possible we lift the tag?
I suppose that's a possibility. I kind of hope it doesn't happen, because then you've essentially created two big holes at your tackle spots for seemingly no reason, but since it's the Chiefs we're talking about.. maybe that's what they're doing.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Think they are posturing trying to trade down and recoup some value since the #34 pick is gone.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Think they are posturing trying to trade down and recoup some value since the #34 pick is gone.
I wouldn't believe anything that a GM or HC says at this time of year and yes, it makes a whole lot more sense to trade down than to draft a player that simply doesn't make you any (or much) better (Joeckel).

They aren't going get the king's ransom that the Rams got last year but if they can pick up a 2nd and not move back that far in the first they can kill two birds with one stone. A defensive player (say a 5 tech DE or ILB) in the first and developmental QB in the second.

Everyone seems to think that cutting Winston automatically means drafting Joeckel. Albert won't move and based on his performance (one sack last year) shouldn't. Even if he did, he has never played RT and they are very different positions. Are you going to untag Albert to make a spot for Joeckel? Using the 1st overall to take a RT makes no sense. I think cutting Winston is more about Winston than the draft.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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There is an article on another website that I frequent that says the Eagles are essentially sending everyone to Morgantown to observe Geno Smith's pro-day. Even owner Jeffrey Lurie is supposedly going to observe the workout. That sounds pretty serious IMO. Michael Vick isn't a long-term solution in Philly. Foles doesn't really fit what Chip Kelly does. And the other QBs on their rosters are backups at best. So their interest in Geno makes some sense. I guess the question is are they targeting him at #4 overall? If so, how bad do they want him? Bad enough to trade up to #1 overall to get him? And if the Eagles are interested in him at #4, why aren't the Chiefs interested at #1?
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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There is an article on another website that I frequent that says the Eagles are essentially sending everyone to Morgantown to observe Geno Smith's pro-day. Even owner Jeffrey Lurie is supposedly going to observe the workout. That sounds pretty serious IMO. Michael Vick isn't a long-term solution in Philly. Foles doesn't really fit what Chip Kelly does. And the other QBs on their rosters are backups at best. So their interest in Geno makes some sense. I guess the question is are they targeting him at #4 overall? If so, how bad do they want him? Bad enough to trade up to #1 overall to get him? And if the Eagles are interested in him at #4, why aren't the Chiefs interested at #1?
Did you hear the interview Geno had with Steve Mariucci on the NFL Network? It wasn't pretty. Most of the answers sounded like they were coached and when he had to think on his feet...

Mariucci drew up a play on the board, went over it, then erased it. A few minutes later he asked Geno to describe the play and the progressions. Geno was lost. He couldn't remember the progression and he forgot about one of the receivers (some guy Mariucci referred to as Jerry Rice). Now maybe he just got rattled and maybe he just had a bad day, but...
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