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Old 03-01-2013, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Cooper is slept on by the media. It would not shock me at all if many teams had him rated higher than Warmack. Cooper would be great value at 19 if he's there.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I think there is little hope that Cooper falls to 19th.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Somebody's gonna fall. Might not be Cooper, but someone we have penciled in as a sure top 15 talent is gonna fall to 19. There are so many players graded similarly that it's mathematically impossible for all of them to be gone before we pick.

That's why our pick is so valuable. We're in a position to get a tremendous value pick. And if a qb falls, we're also in a tremendous position to move out of the 1st round and collect extra picks.

So I'm very comfortable with where we're selecting. We have a ton of options.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Two guards in the top 20 is pretty rare, is it not? I feel like we could have a shot at him for sure.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I think Cooper goes before Warmack. Positional versatility and better athleticism. And he pulls better. Warmack is a great prospect, but he's limited to a singular role.

Plus I was checking out Warmack and I have a major concern. I feel I can attack him in pass protection. If I'm a DC, that's the guy I'm attacking in pass pro when I'm drawing up my 3rd down packages.

I want him in space, and I can draw up multiple looks to stretch out that OL and force Warmack to play a DE in space and I'm attacking him with speed. I feel I can get pressure on the qb by doing that to Warmack.

Cooper is athletic enough that if you get enough space btw him and the other OLmen, you can't attack the gaps with pure speed like you can with Warmack.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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Cooper versus Warmack really all depends on the Style of Oline you want. Warmack is more of the road grader type.

Cooper is the better fit for our system I believe.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I see Warmack as Iupati. Both are great OGs, but both have the same flaw. You can attack Iupati in pass pro. Warmack is gonna have the same problem.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Xavier Rhodes is on my radar at 19. Add him to the list.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm all aboard the Arthur Brown bandwagon as well. He's the truth. Best ILB in this draft.

Lacks the physical tools to be a 1st rounder but I've done enough hw on him now to feel comfortable enough to say he's the best ILB in this draft and gonna be a stud.
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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I am an Arthur Brown fan as well

I think Rhodes would be a good fit here, I am just not sure of his value at 19.
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm all aboard the Arthur Brown bandwagon as well. He's the truth. Best ILB in this draft.

Lacks the physical tools to be a 1st rounder but I've done enough hw on him now to feel comfortable enough to say he's the best ILB in this draft and gonna be a stud.
it's about time you came around haha. see why now I've been saying he won't be there in the 2nd for us?
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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it's about time you came around haha. see why now I've been saying he won't be there in the 2nd for us?
Yeah I wasn't done scouting him. I saw 5 games now and I'm comfortable. He's a stud. The read option gives him trouble though.

I'm hoping he can still be there. Hoping. We need Teo, Oggletree and Minter to go off the board before him.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Hey BBD, have you had much of a chance to look at Sio Moore yet?

I really want to know your thoughts on him.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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What about LB Zavier Gooden as a day 2 option for NYG?

I originally thought he was something of a workout warrior, but he did do well at the senior bowl and has shown some physicality.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Hey BBD, have you had much of a chance to look at Sio Moore yet?

I really want to know your thoughts on him.
Not yet. I'll get to him eventually.

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What about LB Zavier Gooden as a day 2 option for NYG?

I originally thought he was something of a workout warrior, but he did do well at the senior bowl and has shown some physicality.
Gooden is a good player. But we have JWill so I don't see us taking another player like that.

I like Rhodes more and more as the days go by. Great bump and run CB. Can play the slot too. Long arms. Big frame. Great speed, great run and chase ability. Good hands.

He's not great at zone or tackling, but I look for press man CBs and he fits the bill. Having him and Prince on the edges would be great for years to come.

I think he's a very real possibility at 19. Especially if we lose CWeb.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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I know we have Jacquain, but Gooden could be intriguing if we want a pair fast athletic OLB. He is also a bit bigger than Williams. The way we have flipped our SLB and WLB has me thinking. If move away from the big SLB and move Kiwi to DE then someone like Gooden could be a big plus. It would really transform the second level of our defence.

Xavier Rhodes is the guy I am really liking at 19

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Old 03-04-2013, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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This draft is so fluid it incredible, and while there isn't alot of elite talent, there is plenty of good depth.

There are quite a few prospect that could either go early or slip to around where we pick. How those top picks fall will determine how it shakes out.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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I'm just hoping for alot of QBs and boneheaded picks in the top 10-15 this year. This will guarantee someone really good falls to our pick. It's really a shame this is a bad QB draft, and it's a shame Al Davis died.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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I mean, there are just so many ways the draft could fall, and we've got a fairly open amount of needs, plus depth. The CB depth is actually why I'm wary on picking a guy like Rhodes or Trufant round 1. We've got pick 19, here's who i think will go before that:

1. Joeckel
2. Geno
3. D Jordan
4. Fisher
5. Ansah
6. Star
7. Floyd
8. Richardson
9. Milliner
10. Mingo
11. Werner (at least I hope, I'm not a big fan of his)
12. Patterson
13. Jarvis Jones

that leaves 5 other guys who could go. Leaving us a 6 man board at this point. I think Lane Johnson goes before this, making 14 and a 5 man board. that board would probably be something like:
Rhodes
Trufant
Fluker
Carradine
LB such as Brown, Oggletree, Te'o (yuck, but he still most likely will go 1st round IMO)

that's also without the guards and Damonte Moore. And only one QB. In round one, I'd really be fine with any of these guys. Carradine is my #1 option for us at this point, as I love the CB depth (guy like Logan or Poyer round 2) and really feel we need DL the most. Guards are guards. I love this class, but Boothe and Snee are fine (that's if we re-sign boothe of course, another big "if", I know). I just feel a Carradine-Ryan-Sio Moore-OG/DT draft would really be perfect for us
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Scotty,

Hear what your saying, and like the train of thought as to who could be left at 19.... but "guards will be guards"? The interior O-line situation is not fine, not next year or the future after that.... Just not sure you can be dismissive of a position with such high-end talent considering....

- Warmack is rated by many scouts to be the best player in this draft, an absolute road-grader who could do wonders for our run game and new starter David Wilson
- Cooper is thought to be a top 15 selection, not far behind (if at all) Warmack in some scout's eyes, is excellent at pulling and was working out as a center during portions of the combine
- Coughlin has long stated he wants to re-invigorate the run game
- Boothe is a FA and sounds to be gaining interest, could quickly price the Giants out
- Snee is coming off hip surgery, openly contemplated retirement and made comments to the effect of not being the same player as he was when he was younger
- Baas is likely to be shown the door next off-season due to his play and accompanying contract, which leaves a huge hole at center (and don't suggest Jim Cordle...just don't).

Drafting one of those two would help solidify our line in front of Eli for years to come, be it in replacing Boothe this year, or next should Boothe re-sign and slide to center once Baas departs (or Cooper at C should he show the aptitude for it), or learning under and replacing Snee at RG.

In the scenario you laid out with Carradine going round 1, I'd think we'd almost be inclined to reach for Barrett Jones in round 2, over-valuing his versatility, and wait until rounds 3-5 for CB / LB.

As much as I would love a leader like Arthur Brown Jr. on this team... we aren't going LB at 19.

Just the way I see it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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I understand your point of view and it totally makes sense. I actually forgot about Snee's surgery, but my main viewpoint is the same with BBD's on DT's. I'm just not a big fan of drafting guards that early. Hell, I LOVED Decastro, and love Warmack and Cooper in this draft, I really do. I wouldn't really be upset picking either, BUT (along with the holes on our D taking precedence IMO) I've always kinda agreed with the "a guard is a guard is a guard" saying. I mean, Rich Seubert was undrafted. Boothe was a 6th rounder. I know it'd be nice to have a super stud to plug in there, but I really believe you can find guards cheaper and later in the draft to plug in and be average with a fair amount of ease.

I fully understand the importance of the interior OL and how our situation is pretty grim there now and for the future, but I believe we can find these guys who will get the job done in the later rounds. Even my 2nd favorite Giant of all time, O'Hara was undrafted. That's just my point. Will I be upset if we pick one of those guys early? Not at all. I'm just saying I'd prefer a Carradine at 19 and get a guard in the later rounds
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
WPG_Giant
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Huge fan of Ohara's as well.

Fair enough, didn't mean to imply you didn't grasp the interior o-line situation, meant more to emphasize it, I guess my view at this point in time is that, going on the premise that higher drafts picks have a greater chance to contribute vs lower round picks (not always the case, I admit), I would rather:

Go O-line early on and bet on one of the developmental DE's (tracy, Ojomo) to contribute with the help of the current vets and a solid coaching staff than

Grab, for example, Carradine in the first and have a 4-7th round OG join McCants / Moseley / Brewer and hope a couple of them can produce at a high level at RT / OG / C potentially in the foreseeable future.

Factor in the amount we owe Eli in the upcoming years, and I am all for allocating resources in the draft to find players to not only start, but thrive and allow him and the offense to continue evolving.

As an aside, curious what you think of Brian Winters from Kent State. Should we go your suggested route of waiting until the mid-rounds for o-line, he's my top choice.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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I have recently done a three round mock to try and get an idea if who could be available when we pick.

I have our top three picks being

1. CB Xavier Rhodes, Florida St

2. LB Arthur Brown, Kansas State

3. OL Justin Pugh, Syracuse


I am still working on refining round 2 and 3, but for those interested the mock is here http://www.ourlads.com/nfl-mock-draf...ck-draft/64290
Please note my comments about the #1 pick
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Interesting mock, Big_Pete...

- No issue with Rhodes at 19 with the way that board breaks, 4 OT's and 2 OG's gone...maybe Ogletree or Sheldon Richardson might be options there, but personally I have some misgivings about Richardson, heard rumblings about intelligence / learning issues, hence his JUCO time, need to look into it more.

- Love Arthur Brown.

- With Pugh's short arms, I imagine he'll be kicked inside at the next level...curious to hear from BBD on the Giants passing on Jordan Hill in the third, and him going with the next pick!

- Speaking of Ogletree.... quite a fall there for him. Think the DUI has that much impact?

- Only issue would be lack of DT, with Brandon Williams gone at the top of the third, might be better off grabbing Hill in the 3rd and looking for O-line help later on. Just a thought.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Also, with regards to your point on the top pick, I would find it hard to see the Chiefs picking Patterson high, even in a trade-down scenario, with Bowe newly signed to a big deal and recent 1st rounder Jon Baldwin on the team.

Keep in mind how much big Andy loves to draft for the trenches...even to reach for lineman.... Danny Watkins (1st) and Trevor Laws (2nd) come to mind...
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