New York Giants Discussion

[bigbluedefense]

Jug brings up a great point. Cruz can play the role of the slot and the outside. Nicks is strictly an outside guy.

Cruz is more valuable. Look he was the center of every defense's attention this past year with nobody else stepping up on the outside and Nicks being a decoy and he still had a sick season.

I pay Cruz before Nicks. And again, Randle has a better chance of replacing Nicks' production vs Jernigan replacing Cruz.

[Jughead10]

The problem is, everyone sees small and quick and says slot receiver. Who knows if he can play the slot, let alone in our offense with all the reads. All these small guys play on the outside in college with all these spread offenses.

[Giantsfan1080]

Cruz can play the outside but he wouldn't be the same player. Why can't they just talk to each other and say let's sign the same exact deal. This is going to blow.

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Totally disagree. We saw how important what Nicks does is, but I think it's easier to find a player like that than it is to find someone like Cruz. Plus in my opinion Cruz can play either position if needed.

Look at the SB run. Nicks dominated every game. Cruz barely showed up except for the first half against SF. I don't think Cruz can dominate like Nicks did.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

JJ isn't going to step up. He's not good.

And enough with Douglas. What has Douglas done? He hasn't done a thing. That wasn't a loss. He's as big of a loss as Jonas Seawright was.

He played well and had potential. Hence, why he was on the PS, to develop. Now what? We lost him to even try to come in and see what he has. JJ, in your opinion isn't going to step up.

That's the most important position on our offense. So now what? I am starting to like that Tavon Austin guy the more I hear Mike M. and the other guy talk about him.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Look at the SB run. Nicks dominated every game. Cruz barely showed up except for the first half against SF. I don't think Cruz can dominate like Nicks did.

That's not fair to Cruz. Teams keyed in on Cruz and took him away, which is why the ball went to Nicks. When teams keyed in on Nicks, Cruz got the ball in the regular season.

And in SF, they tried to double Nicks and go iso with Rogers on Cruz and you saw what happened. It's a pick your poison type of deal. You double 1, the other is getting the ball. You can't stop both.

That's why I felt it was so important to keep both. They feed off each other.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

He played well and had potential. Hence, why he was on the PS, to develop. Now what? We lost him to even try to come in and see what he has. JJ, in your opinion isn't going to step up.

That's the most important position on our offense. So now what? I am starting to like that Tavon Austin guy the more I hear Mike M. and the other guy talk about him.

Stop it. You'll never hear his name ever again. He was a scrub. Let's not whine about scrubs.

I'll bet you anything Douglas doesn't do a damn thing next year.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Is Steve Smith an option? Bring his failure buttock back and try to revive his career. He is a system guy, and has been terrible. Worse comes to worse he can play the slot.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Stop it. You'll never hear his name ever again. He was a scrub. Let's not whine about scrubs.

I'll bet you anything Douglas doesn't do a damn thing next year.

Probably doesnt. It's about developing people who show something. He showed something, and that's why you work with these guys and see if you can develop them. This goes for both sides of the ball. Then, we tried to do that with Ballard after he got hurt, and the Pats stole him, lol. I chalk that up to a rookie mistake by Reese.

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

That's not fair to Cruz. Teams keyed in on Cruz and took him away, which is why the ball went to Nicks. When teams keyed in on Nicks, Cruz got the ball in the regular season.

And in SF, they tried to double Nicks and go iso with Rogers on Cruz and you saw what happened. It's a pick your poison type of deal. You double 1, the other is getting the ball. You can't stop both.

That's why I felt it was so important to keep both. They feed off each other.

That came off more harsh than I wanted it to.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

Probably doesnt. It's about developing people who show something. He showed something, and that's why you work with these guys and see if you can develop them. This goes for both sides of the ball. Then, we tried to do that with Ballard after he got hurt, and the Pats stole him, lol. I chalk that up to a rookie mistake by Reese.

You can't develop everyone. When you have a good roster you can't stash everyone away. It happens. It was a risk on Reese's part, and I'm pretty sure he won't lose sleep over it anyway.

You don't cut a safer player who you know can contribute to your team in some capacity for an unknown who has less than a 5% chance of contributing to your team. That's just the nature of the business.

As much as I hate Beckum, we know what Beckum can give us. Douglas was a shot in the dark. In a long season, you need more certainty from your bench. Keeping Beckum was the right move.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

You can't develop everyone. When you have a good roster you can't stash everyone away. It happens. It was a risk on Reese's part, and I'm pretty sure he won't lose sleep over it anyway.

You don't cut a safer player who you know can contribute to your team in some capacity for an unknown who has less than a 5% chance of contributing to your team. That's just the nature of the business.

As much as I hate Beckum, we know what Beckum can give us. Douglas was a shot in the dark. In a long season, you need more certainty from your bench. Keeping Beckum was the right move.

No you can't. However, it doesn't stop every team from trying. In this salary cap era, you try to develop everyone. From a 1st rounder to the undrafted player who you see a small amount of potential in. That's how this league is set up. Now does this man you will be successful? NO!!! You still try and do this because of salary cap and trying to get the best possible players as possible.

That's why scouting stability both at the college and pro personnel scouting is vital for stability and success. I think under TC we have done a hell of a job! Under Fasshole, I considered undrafted FA as camp fodder. Coughlin used undrafted players he saw potential in and his staff refined them into players for us. From Blackburn to Cruz, and others as well.

So now we have to see what our OL developmental guys can do. Brewer is a guy who probably has the best chance of starting. We have to see if he is worth it.

At the slot WR spot, this all will be very interesting. It is the most important position on our offense.

[BigBlueNorwegian]

I refuse to believe Cruz leaves. They can't be that stupid. He's Elis favorite target, and our most consistent WR. Maybe even our best. He's a must-keep player. We don't have a lot of them, in fact I would only consider Eli, Cruz, JPP and maybe Nicks to be those kind of guys.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

So we keep Cruz, but who do you let go, Nicks or JPP then?

[BigBlueNorwegian]

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

So we keep Cruz, but who do you let go, Nicks or JPP then?

If I have to choose? Nicks. But preferably neither. Look, all I'm saying is this: We have three players I consider must-keep. Eli, Cruz and JPP. Others, like Amukamara, Nicks, Phillips and Beatty are players I would really like to keep around until they start aging, but I can survive it if they leave. Then you have the category of the "would like to keep, but don't break the bank", like Joseph, Rolle and Snee.

After those guys, everyone is replaceable in my mind, based on what they've shown in Giants blue.

But Eli, Cruz, JPP. Those are guys you can't let leave. It's not good business or a good way of running a successful football team. Cruz and his agent knows this, so they are trying to pressure them into giving into Cruz' demands. And the Giants aren't caving just yet.

It's like a mexican stand-off. With lots of negotiation tactics through the media and stuff like that. It makes us fans nervous, and rightly so, because there's always the off chance this goes wrong, and he leaves. But ultimately, I think they work out a deal, and he stays.

Both Cruz and the Giants ultimately want to work out a deal, and they both benefit from each other. The Giants because Cruz is a great player and a hometown hero, and Cruz because he's a stickler for media attention, and the Giants are one of the biggest market teams in the NFL.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Well the reason I ask is we can't keep them all. I think he is pricing himself high for a "slot" WR. From the Giants standpoint, we have had 2 pro bowlers in this system at the slot WR spot. That's no accident! However, Cruz is a great player, no doubt about it.

But if Reese and Mara are looking at other players, perhaps they feel we can go for Nicks and JPP, but might have to let Cruz go. Hoping that Eli and the system will create a good, productive slot WR.

I am not saying this is right or wrong, but rather that might be how they are thinking. That could be there thought process.

[Big_Pete]

I think Cruz is looking at similar kind of money to what the Pat's gave Welker. The problem is that is more than we are likely to be able to afford

[Forenci]

I mean, when you think about it, how many teams are able to afford two ELITE receivers? Heck, how many teams even have one? We can keep them both, but then we have to make big decisions and let other guys go in order to keep JPP and such.

Might have to let guys like Prince, Linval, Kenny, Kiwi, etc. go either now or down the road. It's the nature of the beast. It's why the draft is so important. You can get great players for relatively cheap for 3-5 years.

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by Forenci

I mean, when you think about it, how many teams are able to afford two ELITE receivers? Heck, how many teams even have one? We can keep them both, but then we have to make big decisions and let other guys go in order to keep JPP and such.

Might have to let guys like Prince, Linval, Kenny, Kiwi, etc. go either now or down the road. It's the nature of the beast. It's why the draft is so important. You can get great players for relatively cheap for 3-5 years.

Very good point, paying two wideouts big money is not easy, I think Cruz gets the top RFA tender, then we either get him on a one year $3m deal or a first round pick.

[Big_Pete]

I found this snippet on bbi, reportedy about comments from Gil Brandt on the NLF radio show

from http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com...&thread=466115

Gil Brandt on Kevin Boothe
Brandon Walsh : 10:15 am
Last night on his radio show on NFL Radio, a caller asked about the Giants draft (of course the caller asked about Tight End in the 1st round- I still dont understand how Giants fans don't get this will not happen!!!! anyway) Brandt said the Giants would probably look to take a tight end in the 3rd or 4th round area and he talked to Pope. Pope had his eye on someone but Brandt "wouldn't give away any family secrets"

Brandt then said the Giants will draft BPA in the 1st as they normally do because they have a tendency to have someone fall to them while others reach. He gave Wilson as an example last year and someone who he thinks will be a "pretty good player in this league"

He then discussed Kevin Boothe and said its a player they want to re-sign but is already getting a lot of attention as a free agent. First I've heard of this in the media that Boothe will be a target of other teams, so we may want to temper our expectaions that Boothe is going to come back for a cheap contract after receieving little interest.

No link- it was on the radio.

A couple of interesting points, the main one being Mike Pope having his eye on a TE in the 3rd/4th. I wonder if this is a fall back if Bennett leaves.

Also Boothe attracting interest from other team.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

I wonder if teams over pay for Boothe. Or at least jack up the price to re-sign him. There are teams with boat loads of money. I wonder if they over pay in this FA market.

[Rosebud]

With how ugly **** just got for the Avs with Ryan O'Reilly, I hope this Cruz thing doesn't drag on too long.

[OSUGiants17]

Nevermind, BBD helped

[OSUGiants17]

https://twitter.com/SNYGiants/status...53180547514368

I wouldn't mind this at all. If we get him cheap he'd be a fine replacement for Boley

[AcheTen]

It's going to be Barkevious Mingo or Ezekiel Ansah in the first round this year. I can just feel it.