Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2015 NFL Draft Forum

2015 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2015 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-01-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
Abaddon
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,193
Reputation: 249217
Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Yes. This is one of my chief concerns. He's never looked instinctive to me. He gets sacked when he has escape lanes. He'll run up against the offensive linemen in front of him. He hesitates to run when he should run, and sometimes his eyes come down and he starts running around when he's got time and he should be standing tall. Shades of Gabbert. I like him better than Gabbert, but I see some concerning similarities between them as prospects, mainly having to do with their pocket presence.
For me, this is enough to yank a guy off my board. You can't coach a guy to be aware, I don't believe. Pretty sure your mind either functions that way or it doesn't.
__________________
Derek Carr...

God damn it.

No offense, but your Raiders draft sucks.
Abaddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 11:46 PM    (permalink
Roddoliver
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 292
Reputation: 30476
Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

After watching Smith's videos, I think he has issues with footwork and progressions. Many times he does not step into the throw or does not set his feet, and then the throw is all arm and less accurate. And he is locked in on his first read. Things get ugly when he has to go through progressions or improvise. From a football IQ perspective, I was not impressed when he was interviewed by Steve Mariucci and screwed up on the board.

The more I see videos of Barkley, the more I like him because of the mechanics and progressions, and his arm is underrated. Smith is mechanically inconsistent and I don't see him doing an exceptional job scanning the field. The plays happen when his first read is open. I am not ashamed to say I currently see Barkley as the top QB in this draft.
__________________
Roddoliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 12:49 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,660
Reputation: 1206081
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Chopping your feet, which allows a QB to make a read, quickly re-set in another direction and throw the football(like Peyton does)isn't the same thing that happens to Gabbert(less so than at Mizzou and during his rookie year), where he looked literally AFRAID when he dropped back and would scramble or dump the ball from phantom pressure.

Geno doesn't have scared-feet, his feet are moving to set himself up to throw.

For those who question Smith's pocket presence, Geno ran a sub 4.6 at the combine and it's clear from watching his film he made an obvious choice NOT to scramble when he had opportunities to do so.

So why would an apparently mobile, athletic QB decide NOT to scramble and at times hold the ball too long??

Maybe because as a Black QB growing up, Geno was trying to fight against the stereotype that he was more 'athlete' than QB.

It's a stereotype that to this day can stunt a Black QB's development and determine whether or not he's given an opportunity to play his chosen position, oftentimes his BEST position.

Look at RG3 for example.
Big time prep prospect out of the state of Texas. Played under center in HS in a traditional offensive scheme. Accurate with a bigtime arm. But what did many recruiters see?? A Black QB who could run a 4.3 and would make one helluva safety or WR in college.

How many people scouting RG3 last season initially thought he was another dual threat, run first QB who was a better scrambler than passer?? Until folks broke down his film and noticed 90% of his runs at Baylor were by design, not instinct??
Even Shanahan after spending THREE number one picks to draft Griffin, had about 5-10 designed runs called for Griffin almost every game. Long term, that's QB suicide.

Even I when watching Geno would see yards of open space where he could have scrambled for a first down yet didn't, and think this Black dude has 'Steve Urkel' disease; the non-athlete Black football player.

His combine numbers confirm IMO not that Geno was unaware he had chances to scramble or was too slow to take advantage. Geno Smith made a conscious effort NOT to run at WVU.

A pro OC I believe can convey to Smith it's okay and even desirable to run in the NFL for a QB if he can pick up first downs and keep the chains moving.
You don't have to run like Griffin or Vick thinking you can score on any QB scramble from anywhere on the field.

Geno has flaws as a prospect, but he still completed 7 out of every 10 passes he threw, passed for over 4200 yards, 42 TDs and only SIX INTs.

For people to suggest Geno is not a first round prospect or in some way unworthy of ANY draft selection is nonsense.

The only thing I really don't like about Smith is his public persona and on the sidelines from a fan's view reminds me a little of Jay Cutler. Kinda surly. A little pissed off when the game isn't unfolding the way he expects it to play out.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 01:05 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,338
Reputation: 332415
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I was originally a big Smith fan but even I noticed that he seemed to hold the ball way too long before making a decision when his first read didn't get open. It has to be a real worry for any team drafting him because as a pro, he will get even less time to find the open guy.

I don't care what his excuses are, the results were bad in those situations and I never got the feeling that he had that internal clock so necessary to tell a QB that he has to make a decision, now.
I originally thought he was an absolute cinch to go #1 overall but as the season progressed, I really started to doubt and now, I wouldn't use a top 10 pick on him and if I draft him, I had better be a very solid HC with a nack for developing QB's because this guy needs a lot of work.
To be honest, I never saw bad 'happy foot' with him, it was far more serious, just a complete lack of sensing what was happening around him and a failure to make quick decisions, when they were absolutely necessary.

Even if his excuse that he didn't want to run with the ball because he was determined since he was a kid to show that black QB's can be throwers, it may be so ingrained in his persona that it won't be an easy habit to break after so many years.

His career will be real interesting to watch.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 01:05 AM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,968
Reputation: 1601320
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If he has to chop his feet to quickly reset in another direction at a moment's notice, it's because he doesn't know where his receivers are or where he should step to throw. If you know where you're going to throw, you take one step, in whatever direction it is, plant and throw.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 01:59 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,660
Reputation: 1206081
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
If he has to chop his feet to quickly reset in another direction at a moment's notice, it's because he doesn't know where his receivers are or where he should step to throw. If you know where you're going to throw, you take one step, in whatever direction it is, plant and throw.

Just saying that many QBs are taught to chop their feet because it allows them to scan and rotate across the field more quickly, set their feet and throw.
It's not always some sign of indecision or technical flaw.

To throw the football from a left side of the field set to a right side of the field set, a QB has to pick up and re-position both feet. It's not just changing the placement step of your lead foot.

All I care about are where a QB's feet are set before he throws, not how he gets there.


BTW RG3 and Andrew Luck both had issues at times during rookie seasons with holding the ball too long. It's to be expected. It takes coaching and experience to know when a play is over and when a QB can still buy time waiting for a play to come open.

With Geno Smith's level of production last season, it's hard for me to sit back and make a legitimate critique of his decision making or ability to read defenses.

He only threw six picks, so he must be doing something right when he throws the football.

Can Smith improve?? He better.

Is it something that can't be coached? Of course it can.

There are some minor rough edges to Geno's game, but IMO people are talking like his issues are fatal flaws that will doom him for any long term success in the NFL.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 03:05 AM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,968
Reputation: 1601320
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Well, what would you say was a fatal flaw in the NFL?
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 06:24 AM    (permalink
Abaddon
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,193
Reputation: 249217
Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
For those who question Smith's pocket presence...
Quote snipped for space and lack of relevance. Nothing you said after what I've quoted here even addressed the question regarding his pocket awareness. None of it addressed even in passing his tendency to be completely unaware that an outside pass rusher, front side or back side, is closing on him.

Dude plays QB with blinders on. That ain't good. You'll lead the league in sack-strips for a QB if you can't sense anything beyond what you're directly staring at.
__________________
Derek Carr...

God damn it.

No offense, but your Raiders draft sucks.
Abaddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,660
Reputation: 1206081
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
Quote snipped for space and lack of relevance. Nothing you said after what I've quoted here even addressed the question regarding his pocket awareness. None of it addressed even in passing his tendency to be completely unaware that an outside pass rusher, front side or back side, is closing on him.

Dude plays QB with blinders on. That ain't good. You'll lead the league in sack-strips for a QB if you can't sense anything beyond what you're directly staring at.

I just re-watched every snap Geno took against K State and Texas Tech and his pocket presence wasn't a problem. Even playing behind that poor Mountaineer oline I don't think he was sacked more than 5 times total in both games combined.

What you see is Smith either locking onto his WRs and allowing defenders to close and jump on the football, or simply not identifying how the defense is playing Tavon Austin and Bailey and making more of an effort to get another WR involved to take double coverage off his two primary targets.

Geno needs to learn to throw to the guy who's open and not focus as much on getting the ball to his best WRs.


This is a playing style issue IMO and not a technical problem, but again you would like to think a good NFL QB coach could help him work on those negative tendencies.

I think the reason Smith isn't considered a consensus top pick is because of those two games against teams familiar playing against that spread/Air Raid scheme and his seeming inability to adjust to the in-game chess match and make plays.

If you're a true elite prospect, you're passing offense shouldn't be completely shut down by TT and K-State.
I know his WRs dropped balls and Smith was under heavy pressure in those two games, bu too often it looked like the D knew where Geno wanted to go with the football before he threw it.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 06:00 PM    (permalink
Abaddon
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,193
Reputation: 249217
Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Abaddon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I just re-watched every snap Geno took against K State and Texas Tech and his pocket presence wasn't a problem.
I can only question whether or not you were actually watching the right QB.

Watch the Texas game for another great example of a guy who is oblivious to his surroundings.
__________________
Derek Carr...

God damn it.

No offense, but your Raiders draft sucks.
Abaddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2013, 06:11 PM    (permalink
raphael
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 225
Reputation: -6967
raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael
Default

Smith seems pretty unflappable, personality wise. Just based on video interviews he is about the "coolest" QB prospect I've ever seen. I don't think it makes a difference to him if he is playing high school competition or NFL. It will be his greatest asset going forward.
raphael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 03:28 AM    (permalink
Cudders
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 306
Reputation: 1091601
Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Cudders is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Regarding Genoís pocket presence, itís similar to the rest of his game. Itís inconsistent. Even against Texas, which is a tape Iíve seen levied against him often as an unmitigated disaster, I can point out a handful of snaps where he showcases some strong presence.



At 0:10, Texas loops the DE behind the DT and lurks a LB at the LOS. The DE beats the OG inside and pushes the pocket. The DT drives the OT back toward Genoís spot. Geno steps into the throw and completes 3rd & 3 with a crashing LB draped across his chest.

At 0:31, a Texas blitz blows the right side of the line up. As Geno hits the top of his drop, three Longhorns have a shot at him. A lineman and a linebacker right in his face. He slides to the left, looks downfield, slips through a crease, and comes close to converting a 3rd & 9, leaving his kicker a manageable field goal instead of an obvious punting situation.

At 1:33, Texas crosses their DTís and gets great punch again. Their DEís also run the arc and clip the hip of the pocket. Geno steps into a collapsing line, takes some contact, leads the throw from coverage, and converts a 4th & 4 that ends up going for a touchdown after the catch.

At 7:00, a Texas DE comes clean inside the ten. His RB loops under him to engage, but Geno climbs the pocket and drops the ball in a good location and gets the go-ahead touchdown.

Those are four encouraging signs of a workable pocket presence in a game where the Mountaineer offensive line was just manhandled at the point. Their interior was abused. Their tackles didnít help much. There are some other minor pluses in there, but those are the predominant highlights. Granted, thereís some lowlights against Texas, too. So evaluating an inconsistent talent becomes an issue of context.

WHY does Geno look poor under pressure? From the few games Iíve seen, I donít think itís a chronic case of tentativeness. To me, the root of Genoís problem lies in his transitional footwork. Heís a habitual bouncer. Bouncing leaves room for an unbalanced and inconsistent base. In muddied pockets, unbalanced and inconsistent bases are bad news. It protracts a quarterbackís re-set. When the pocket is collapsing, or a rusher is pushing the quarterbackís spot, he needs to either get off of it or get rid of it. It takes a bouncer longer to do both. And I believe his struggles as a frontside-to-backside passer can sometimes exacerbate the appearance of pocket presence issues. (Which is another issue altogether. Being deficient at a skill doesnít suggest a permanent handicap per se. We canít evaluate Geno through the same prism as Andrew Luck. There are numerous explanations for his current struggles and some of them are quite justifiable. Thatís the line of questioning that teams must attack during the pre-draft interview process.)

But Geno possesses natural, quick feet. Heís capable of short steps and speed drops. It starts from the base up. Itís correctable, sure, but itís a frustrating fix that requires a large dose of patience and an unwavering work ethic. It might take thousands of reps to iron out the worst of it. Look at Aaron Rodgers. Heís got the truest feet in the NFL. He didnít have that at Cal. He worked to get it. I think there are similarities between the two as prospects. What we didnít know about Rodgers was his drive to be the absolute best and burning desire to prove his doubters wrong. Does Geno have that same makeup within him?

In the meantime, there are bridges that a coach or coordinator can build to ease the transition. I want to see Geno in a zone-read offense. (Note: Will Geno fight his coaching staff on the integration of zone-read concepts? Thatís another question that must be answered.) Not one centered on his gifts as a runner, but one that uses zone-read looks as a wrinkle of their passing game. That can slow the rush and allow Geno some time through progressions.

He is a bit of a project, but heís got an intriguing blend of arm talent, athleticism, and reported intangibles. If those intangibles shine through, and a team uncovers his full range of limitations and feels confident their step-by-step program can knock down those barriers and unlock his potential, then heís worth a (high) first-round pick.
Cudders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,105
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Chopping your feet, which allows a QB to make a read, quickly re-set in another direction and throw the football(like Peyton does)isn't the same thing that happens to Gabbert(less so than at Mizzou and during his rookie year), where he looked literally AFRAID when he dropped back and would scramble or dump the ball from phantom pressure.

Geno doesn't have scared-feet, his feet are moving to set himself up to throw.

For those who question Smith's pocket presence, Geno ran a sub 4.6 at the combine and it's clear from watching his film he made an obvious choice NOT to scramble when he had opportunities to do so.

So why would an apparently mobile, athletic QB decide NOT to scramble and at times hold the ball too long??

Maybe because as a Black QB growing up, Geno was trying to fight against the stereotype that he was more 'athlete' than QB.

It's a stereotype that to this day can stunt a Black QB's development and determine whether or not he's given an opportunity to play his chosen position, oftentimes his BEST position.

Look at RG3 for example.
Big time prep prospect out of the state of Texas. Played under center in HS in a traditional offensive scheme. Accurate with a bigtime arm. But what did many recruiters see?? A Black QB who could run a 4.3 and would make one helluva safety or WR in college.

How many people scouting RG3 last season initially thought he was another dual threat, run first QB who was a better scrambler than passer?? Until folks broke down his film and noticed 90% of his runs at Baylor were by design, not instinct??
Even Shanahan after spending THREE number one picks to draft Griffin, had about 5-10 designed runs called for Griffin almost every game. Long term, that's QB suicide.

Even I when watching Geno would see yards of open space where he could have scrambled for a first down yet didn't, and think this Black dude has 'Steve Urkel' disease; the non-athlete Black football player.

His combine numbers confirm IMO not that Geno was unaware he had chances to scramble or was too slow to take advantage. Geno Smith made a conscious effort NOT to run at WVU.

A pro OC I believe can convey to Smith it's okay and even desirable to run in the NFL for a QB if he can pick up first downs and keep the chains moving.
You don't have to run like Griffin or Vick thinking you can score on any QB scramble from anywhere on the field.

Geno has flaws as a prospect, but he still completed 7 out of every 10 passes he threw, passed for over 4200 yards, 42 TDs and only SIX INTs.

For people to suggest Geno is not a first round prospect or in some way unworthy of ANY draft selection is nonsense.

The only thing I really don't like about Smith is his public persona and on the sidelines from a fan's view reminds me a little of Jay Cutler. Kinda surly. A little pissed off when the game isn't unfolding the way he expects it to play out.
That's it, he's off my board.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,105
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
If he has to chop his feet to quickly reset in another direction at a moment's notice, it's because he doesn't know where his receivers are or where he should step to throw. If you know where you're going to throw, you take one step, in whatever direction it is, plant and throw.
Yawn......
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,105
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Well, what would you say was a fatal flaw in the NFL?
Inaccuracy
Actual happy feet
Treating the job of QB like a wage earning job and not a full time salaried postition
Pouting
Not having an overall feel for the position
Purple Drank

Last edited by Black Bolt : 03-04-2013 at 10:44 AM.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,105
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I just re-watched every snap Geno took against K State and Texas Tech and his pocket presence wasn't a problem. Even playing behind that poor Mountaineer oline I don't think he was sacked more than 5 times total in both games combined.

What you see is Smith either locking onto his WRs and allowing defenders to close and jump on the football, or simply not identifying how the defense is playing Tavon Austin and Bailey and making more of an effort to get another WR involved to take double coverage off his two primary targets.

Geno needs to learn to throw to the guy who's open and not focus as much on getting the ball to his best WRs.


This is a playing style issue IMO and not a technical problem, but again you would like to think a good NFL QB coach could help him work on those negative tendencies.

I think the reason Smith isn't considered a consensus top pick is because of those two games against teams familiar playing against that spread/Air Raid scheme and his seeming inability to adjust to the in-game chess match and make plays.

If you're a true elite prospect, you're passing offense shouldn't be completely shut down by TT and K-State.
I know his WRs dropped balls and Smith was under heavy pressure in those two games, bu too often it looked like the D knew where Geno wanted to go with the football before he threw it.
You also have to factor in that dude has not reliable passing option coming out of the backfield which he is likely to have in the NFL.

Last edited by Black Bolt : 03-04-2013 at 10:44 AM.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:32 PM    (permalink
hockey619
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,152
Reputation: 309042
hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I just re-watched every snap Geno took against K State and Texas Tech and his pocket presence wasn't a problem. Even playing behind that poor Mountaineer oline I don't think he was sacked more than 5 times total in both games combined.

What you see is Smith either locking onto his WRs and allowing defenders to close and jump on the football, or simply not identifying how the defense is playing Tavon Austin and Bailey and making more of an effort to get another WR involved to take double coverage off his two primary targets.

Geno needs to learn to throw to the guy who's open and not focus as much on getting the ball to his best WRs. seriously? you think this is what he was focusing on? not passing to where he was told to? which is what the whole offense is built around (not reads but predetermined throws)?


This is a playing style issue IMO and not a technical problem, but again you would like to think a good NFL QB coach could help him work on those negative tendencies. staring down recievers and moving slow/not at all from read to read is a 'playing style?' Is the 'playing style' crappy?
a lot of the above (now italicized below) sounds like veiled excuses for his poor play.

I know his WRs dropped balls and Smith was under heavy pressure in those two games, bu too often it looked like the D knew where Geno wanted to go with the football before he threw it
way to casually make excuses (drops, protection) while pretending to criticize his game.


Smith isn't considered a consensus top pick is because of those two games against teams familiar playing against that spread/Air Raid scheme
Ah so they knew the scheme, that's why they made him look bad. Not through any fault of his, it was his scheme, got ya. i mean, so what if Kstate saw a similar scheme from baylor and got destroyed by it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper/JBCX/Bixby View Post
Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.

Last edited by hockey619 : 03-04-2013 at 04:35 PM.
hockey619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:38 PM    (permalink
raphael
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 225
Reputation: -6967
raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael raphael
Default

All the QBs this year are underrated, Smith included. He is a good athlete, put up some incredible college numbers, seems to have an unflappable attitude, I don't see much downside. Same could be said about Matt Barkley. E J Manuel looks pretty solid to me as well. Taylor Bray has excellant tools as a developmental guy.
raphael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:20 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,105
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey619 View Post
a lot of the above (now italicized below) sounds like veiled excuses for his poor play.

I know his WRs dropped balls and Smith was under heavy pressure in those two games, bu too often it looked like the D knew where Geno wanted to go with the football before he threw it
way to casually make excuses (drops, protection) while pretending to criticize his game.


Smith isn't considered a consensus top pick is because of those two games against teams familiar playing against that spread/Air Raid scheme
Ah so they knew the scheme, that's why they made him look bad. Not through any fault of his, it was his scheme, got ya. i mean, so what if Kstate saw a similar scheme from baylor and got destroyed by it?
LOL, what are you, his mortal enemy? Hey genius, if he play was so poor, then what is he expected to be the first QB taken in the first round? There is no reason to veil anything, including your dislike for the player.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:27 PM    (permalink
hockey619
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,152
Reputation: 309042
hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
LOL, what are you, his mortal enemy? Hey genius, if he play was so poor, then what is he expected to be the first QB taken in the first round? There is no reason to veil anything, including your dislike for the player.
exactly. he shouldnt be.

im not veiling anything. Geno has pretty good tools but has some glaring red flags with his game. possessing bad habits that are hard to break (staring down recievers, anticipation) and lacking in skills that are hard to learn (reading coverage).

and if hes so good, then why did andy reid, certainly smarter than either of us, just go get alex smith instead of just taking this superstar 1/1?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper/JBCX/Bixby View Post
Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
hockey619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 05:16 PM    (permalink
kwilk103
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,850
Reputation: 17254
kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.kwilk103 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

apparently the eagles held a private workout today for geno

kelly, the gm, and lurie were all in attendance
__________________

cred 2 BoneKrusher
kwilk103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 05:39 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,105
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey619 View Post
exactly. he shouldnt be.

im not veiling anything. Geno has pretty good tools but has some glaring red flags with his game. possessing bad habits that are hard to break (staring down recievers, anticipation) and lacking in skills that are hard to learn (reading coverage).

and if hes so good, then why did andy reid, certainly smarter than either of us, just go get alex smith instead of just taking this superstar 1/1?

Why did the great Andy Reid just get fired? Why hasn't Andy Reid figured out that he can't throw the ball for three downs inside the 10 with midget receivers? Why did Andy Reid continue to run long downfield slow developing patterns when he knew he had one of the worst pass protecting lines in football? Why do many in the football world disapprove of the acquisition of Smith? Gee, I don't know.

Andy Reid is a great at developing QB's. And Smith is a hell of a lot better than Kevin Kolb who Reid picked in the past. Obviously, Reid did not want to deal with a rookie QB at the helm, he wanted to be on a faster track with this new team. There's your answer.

Last edited by Black Bolt : 03-11-2013 at 05:52 PM.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 06:14 PM    (permalink
Punisher
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Always Be Closing
Posts: 1,507
Reputation: 528905
Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Punisher is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cudders View Post



Jackson Jeffcoat is such a beast!
Punisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 08:54 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,338
Reputation: 332415
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't get it, I don't see happy feet as a problem for Smith, I wish he was aware enough to panic a bit but he seems oblivious to the pass rush around him even when he is about to be hit and that is what raises red flags for me.
He looks to me to be waiting to throw the perfect pass and just doesn't sense the urgency of getting the throw away before it is too late.

If he plays like that in the NFL he'll be a sitting duck for the pass rush, a QB has to know when he is in trouble and try to make something out of nothing, Smith just stands there till he's hit.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 11:03 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,105
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I don't get it, I don't see happy feet as a problem for Smith, I wish he was aware enough to panic a bit but he seems oblivious to the pass rush around him even when he is about to be hit and that is what raises red flags for me.
He looks to me to be waiting to throw the perfect pass and just doesn't sense the urgency of getting the throw away before it is too late.

If he plays like that in the NFL he'll be a sitting duck for the pass rush, a QB has to know when he is in trouble and try to make something out of nothing, Smith just stands there till he's hit.
Um, it would help if his lineman didn't get whopped one on one. I seriously don't know what you are talking about. The Texas D-line was incredible. Geno stood in there, he alluded the rush whenever possible and he threw complete strikes all game long, yet all you see are the negatives? You know who had a ton of negative plays? Andrew Luck. Obviously he's doing just fine in the NFL. Your evaluation of Smith is bizzare.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.