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View Poll Results: Where will Alex Smith be next season
Buffalo 5 4.63%
Cleveland 10 9.26%
Kansas City 47 43.52%
Jacksonville 6 5.56%
Arizona 25 23.15%
NY Jets 10 9.26%
Other: Who 5 4.63%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-01-2013, 07:14 PM    (permalink
Rabscuttle
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Now the whole interwebz have become teh 9erzone.

If you aren't sick of this yet, don't worry, this is just page one of the majesty of Alex Smith's domination of a board.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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They didn't give up that much not to lock him up long term.
That means that there is no plan B. Thanks for ruining my evening.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
Flacco can do more, he does more, and he has done more than Alex Smith. Smith just got traded for a 2nd and people are calling it a terrible trade; Joe Flacco just signed for probably ~$100 mil.
NFL fans and even 49ers fans specifically, although the more moronic segment of them, assume Smith is the ninny QB who dinks and dunks a ton.
Flacco did LOTS more checking down or screens to backs than Smith did in 2011 where you can count up the numbers easy.
Smith completions to RBs/FBs made up 16.5%
Flacco the past 2 seasons 31%


And this year Air Yards per att
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/airYardsStats.php
Smith 12th
Flacco 23rd
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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A)I firmly believe Alex Smith doesn't beat the Packers in the playoffs. Kaepernick's running was a something the Packers had no answer for.

B)You have to be blind to not see that Flacco played at an elite level in the playoffs.

C)He had a really down year in the regular season but killed it in the playoffs. He had an all time great post-season.

D) Alex Smith has never played at that level and he never will.
A) I firmly believe Alex Smith beat the Packers earlier in the season --before the Packers had lost any of their key guys to injury.
In Lambeau Field.
But you're psychic.

B) No **** Sherlock.

C) Yes his overall body of work was C2) We already know he had a great post-season run, and if not for Rahim Moore of the Broncos, it would have ended one & done.

D) Flacco had never played at that level before either, and again there you go being psychic again.... but it's safe to assume NOBODY will play at that Flacco level from this post-season run because A) nobody had ever had a better statistical run than that before and B) it was magical.

Bottom line is up until THAT carpet ride, he was = Alex Smith up until that point, and stats show actually a little inferior. Of course, Smith was a #1 overall pick and Flacco a mid-1st rounder. But both guys are 28.

To get Smith now for a 2nd rounder and a conditional mid-round pick, and people joke that the Chiefs got dryfucked? That's really weak.
This is a former #1 overall pick who was playing his best ball when he got his bell rung.
He wasn't Matt Flynn with one game, or Kevin Kolb or Matt Schaub with limited production.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Oh man, you saw a playoff victory? What does that feel like?
A playoff victory isn't cool. You know what's cool? A Super Bowl victory.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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I have a slightly different definition of 'elite' QB.
IMO it doesn't mean a QB is an NFL cyborg who's statistically perfect and dominant in every game he plays the minute the ball is kicked off.

Elite to me means a QB is capable of playing at an extremely high level for stretches of games during the regular season, has the ability to win games late for his team in critical situations, and has the 'it' factor and talent to elevate his own play during the playoffs.

That's why guys like Roethlisberger and Eli are elite quarterbacks in my mind.
Quarterbacks who have the ability and have demonstrated the knack for taking over games at the most critical points to get their teams into the playoffs, and once they get there are capable of leading their teams to a SB victory.

Flacco deserves to be called an elite QB. Alex Smith hasn't done anything during his career that I would consider an elite level of play.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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A playoff victory isn't cool. You know what's cool? A Super Bowl victory.
Was going to rep you for that Social Network quote, but I guess I've repped you recently.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:50 AM    (permalink
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This trade is still awesome. Looking forward to 11 more days of talking about it.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:55 AM    (permalink
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This trade is still awesome. Looking forward to 11 more days of talking about it.
It is quite awesome indeed.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:22 AM    (permalink
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A) I firmly believe Alex Smith beat the Packers earlier in the season --before the Packers had lost any of their key guys to injury.
In Lambeau Field.
But you're psychic.

B) No **** Sherlock.

C) Yes his overall body of work was C2) We already know he had a great post-season run, and if not for Rahim Moore of the Broncos, it would have ended one & done.

D) Flacco had never played at that level before either, and again there you go being psychic again.... but it's safe to assume NOBODY will play at that Flacco level from this post-season run because A) nobody had ever had a better statistical run than that before and B) it was magical.

Bottom line is up until THAT carpet ride, he was = Alex Smith up until that point, and stats show actually a little inferior. Of course, Smith was a #1 overall pick and Flacco a mid-1st rounder. But both guys are 28.

To get Smith now for a 2nd rounder and a conditional mid-round pick, and people joke that the Chiefs got dryfucked? That's really weak.
This is a former #1 overall pick who was playing his best ball when he got his bell rung.
He wasn't Matt Flynn with one game, or Kevin Kolb or Matt Schaub with limited production.
A) Smith played great in that 1st game no doubt. I just think that Kaepernick's running ability made the playoff game look considerably easier than it in fact was. Packers are a tough team to face in the playoffs, but they had no idea what they were doing against the read option and the whole game got away from them. If Smith was in there, those huge QB runs aren't in play and its an entirely different game. Hypotheticals are tricky to argue because no one can be proven right. My feeling is that Smith would have had a considerably harder time winning that game than Kaepernick did.

B) Sorry I just thought that you dismissing Flaccos recent postseason performance a bit too quickly.

C) Those stats only tell part of the story. Alex Smiths overall body of work is considerably worse than Flacco's. Smith has 1 winning season, 1 playoff win, battled injuries, & been benched multiple times. Flacco has never missed a game, has never had a losing season, is 9-4 in the postseason and has never been benched in favor of Troy Smith, Shaun Hill, or JT O'Sullivan. Flacco has outperformed him in total and has only 5 years compared to Smith's 7.

C2) If Holliday doesn't run back 2 return TDs then Flacco that Moore's miss play doesn't matter. Its another hypothetical.

D) Flacco has shown bits and pieces of his ability in the past. The 2 prior years in the playoffs he made great plays against the Steelers and Patriots and was let down by his teammates. Flacco's pure arm talent is something Smith can never get close to and it shows in Smiths play on the field. Smith can't attack anywhere down field. It's on of the main reason he was benched for Kaepernick. I certainly didn't expect Flacco to go off like he did, but it was a 1000x more likely than Smith having a similar effort.

Chiefs fans are bummed because Smith hasn't show he can be more than just good at best, and just good doesn't win championships. Smith is a former #1 who hasn't established anything in his 7 years. Smith's best was bad enough that his coach jumped ship to a guy who was essentially a rookie the first legit chance he could, and then his replacement went on to out play him.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:25 AM    (permalink
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THIS THREAD

Kill it with fire.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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THIS THREAD

Kill it with fire.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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After reflecting on this for a few days this trade seems even worse than before. Even removing the fact that the Chiefs bid against themselves and overpaid in terms of a draft pick as compensation, simply the commitment they are rumored to have made with Smith was a bad choice. Smith is likely going to be the starting QB for a minimum of 2 years. I don't see him playing poorly enough to lose his job, especially with the management risking a draft pick and a decent sized contract to acquire him.

The thing that makes him such a bad choice for KC is despite the fact that the Chiefs sucked last year they actually have a decent core of players currently in their prime. However, at the end of the Smith era in KC they're going to be heading out of their prime.

Derrick Johnson is 30
Tamba Hali is 29
Brandon Flowers is 27
Brandon Albert is 28
Dwayne Bowe is 28
Eric Winston is 29
Jamaal Charles (RB) is 26

KC has a few nice younger pieces here and there like Justin Houston and Eric Berry, but they're going to be hard pressed to put together a better core in their 2nd contracts than what they have now.

Despite how good some of those players are, the core itself unlike San Francisco isn't good enough to win a title without a difference maker at the QB position. I think even the staunchest of Smith supporters wouldn't argue that Smith is the kind of guy who is going to consistently generate offensive output that wins you games, instead of generating offensive output that puts you in a position to win you games. The distinction there is key. Smith won't turn the ball over, and will lead 2-3 good drives a game, but at the same time he's not a guy who is going to get you 4-5 good drives with any significant frequency. The problem is when you reach the playoffs those guys stop winning you games. The Chiefs just plateaued themselves as the Bengals from the past 2 seasons/ the Jaguars from 06-08ish. Best case scenario they're a glorified warm up game for a contender in the Wild Card round.

In San Francisco Smith had everything a QB could want. He had a defense that allowed 14 points a game, a running game that was rushing for 150+ yards a game, a top 5 OL that didn't have a weak link and 2 pro bowlers on the blindside, a legitimate game-changing punter, and a good core of skill position players that featured 2 top 10 picks. Despite all of this he couldn't play QB at a high enough level that Harbaugh didn't jump at the first opportunity he had to replace him. Despite a 1 game sample size of a 2nd year QB who previously played out of a pistol offense, Harbaugh replaced Smith, and it turned out to be the right move. San Fran needed more than the 21-24ish points that Smith could get fairly consistently in every game they played in the playoffs. Pretty much every SB winning team does at some point. Kaepernick is a QB who has the ability to generate offense to make that happen, Smith is not.

So where does that leave the Chiefs? They hopefully will get the Smith who played average in 2 of 7 seasons in his career, and even with the average Smith, who is going to a less talented offense, they can only reasonably expect at max 21-24ish ppg from him. This might not even make them a playoff team. So while they roll with with Smith, and burn the last years of the primes of the guys I mentioned above, they're really setting themselves further back than they are now, and they're awful now.

The only argument I've seen as to why this is a decent move is that there is nobody else out there. This frankly is crap. Smith is the most obvious choice because he has the longest track record, however, out of all the QB's in the draft and backups in the league it is pretty much a statistical impossibility that there isn't one who is capable of being a bigger difference maker than Smith. The Chiefs just needed to have the stones to go out and try to find it.

Frankly it wouldn't matter if they tried a grapeshot approach drafting Smith #1, trading a #2 for Mallett, and trading a #5 for Flynn, and then letting them battle it out. If they get a QB who can win them games then it would be worth it. However, I think FlyingElvis said it best when he shot down the Schaub/Cassel/Kolb trade comparisons to Smith. All those guys had upside, Smith has 7 years of mediocrity, and he is what he is at this point. The Chiefs were the worst team in the league last year, and they have nowhere to go but up. That affords them the ability to take chances. However, what they did was gutless plain and simple.

Maybe Reid will surprise us, and he'll find that QB who will hasten the end of the Smith era. However, I think with the Smith move the Chiefs found themselves one of the only QB's who had the ability to set them even further back as a franchise.

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Old 03-02-2013, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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+rep for that post. It made me even more depressed but it's completely true.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, the Chiefs' playmakers are going to be spent by the time they're done with Alex. Probably going to have to completely rebuild again.

Alex has to be Drew Brees and Dorsey has to hit on pretty much all of his picks in the next two drafts.

I'm done being pissed off about the trade for now because it's really not worth my energy. I'll be pissed again if they draft a ******* offensive tackle at #1.

I do think Alex has the potential to do what Drew Brees did. Their career arcs are actually pretty similar. He's got the accuracy, intelligence, and mechanics to do it. And he's probably the perfect Andy Reid QB. Andy's never had a guy that fits into everything he wants to do as well as Alex.

What needs to happen with this roster going forward is they need to get their receivers in order. The best move with Dwayne Bowe is to franchise him and then let him walk next season. That tag money is steep, but it's the right move. He's too old to sign to any more than a 2-year deal and you can't afford to let him go right now. Let some other team make a mistake. McCluster showed a lot of potential in the slot. I think he fits in great there. Wylie could as well, but is unproven. It'd be nice if Baldwin turns another corner, but they can't rely on that. They need to bring in a couple more receivers to push him.

They need a TE that can do everything. Moeaki is injury prone and had a bad year coming off an ACL. I like Maneri a lot, but he's a blocking TE (though he does seem to have very good hands).

They should just sign Albert, but if he's stupidly being offered a bajillion dollars by some other team, there's not a lot you can do. Stephenson flashed greatness and has immense potential at LT. I'd roll with him and a free agent if Albert can't be retained.

With #1, they need to be trying to trade back a bit and recoup that pick they lost in the Smith trade (which will really lessen the hate toward the acquiring Smith) and my targets are Patterson and Milliner. I'm guessing they'll go more toward the Green Bay style of receiver (big, fast, physical) than what Andy Reid had in Philadelphia (small, quick).
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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The best move for the Chiefs is still to draft Geno #1. Alex Smith is nothing more than a stopgap, but he's the perfect guy to lead the team while a young QB learns on the bench.

The #1 need for this team is still a franchise caliber QB. That is always your need until you address it, and only fools think that's what the Chiefs did with Alex Smith.

It'll still be an OT though. Albert will walk and the pick will be Joeckel or Fisher. Sidegrade sidegrade sidegrade.

Settling for mediocrity instead of striving for greatness. - The KC Chiefs
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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A) Smith played great in that 1st game no doubt. I just think that Kaepernick's running ability made the playoff game look considerably easier than it in fact was. Packers are a tough team to face in the playoffs, but they had no idea what they were doing against the read option and the whole game got away from them. If Smith was in there, those huge QB runs aren't in play and its an entirely different game. Hypotheticals are tricky to argue because no one can be proven right. My feeling is that Smith would have had a considerably harder time winning that game than Kaepernick did.
The game where that QB through a pick 6 and GB punt returner muffed inside the 10 giving the 49ers an easy shot at a TD?
The way the 49ers offensive line dominated upfront Troy Smith had a good chance to win. The opening game of the season Joe Staley got toasted by Mathews a few times. In the playoffs Staley stepped up / Mathews wasn't 100% like week 1.

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B) Sorry I just thought that you dismissing Flaccos recent postseason performance a bit too quickly.
The Patriots defense was Bad last year. The Colts sucked this year. He did alight and chance at points lost due to RB fumbles.
The Broncos DBs stepped in doo-doo multiple times. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...cos-highlights
Early 3rd down is converted with a questionable PI. Late key 3rd down #1 option Boldin is left open right in the middle.
2 good plays but WRs can't pull in the passes.
Another bailed out questionable PI on 3rd down in OT.
Sack on 3rd looked like a coverage sack.
A lazy lolipop pass that was a foot and a half from being an INT and from right there a 45yd FG and they lose.
3rd and 13. 5'8 Jim Leonhard covering 6'4 Dennis Pitta, genius.
Nearly an INT, but credit to the DB more than a bad throw.
Manning INT. Does Flacco do much to get a couple 1sts to get a close FG? No.

Pats D this year was better but nothing more than avg.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ots-highlights

He still gets some credit cause you still have to execute on your own to take advantage of failures on the opponents end.

Great game vs. the 49ers


He is Not consistent. He is Not efficient.
THAT is why the great QBs are great QBs.

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C) Those stats only tell part of the story. Alex Smiths overall body of work is considerably worse than Flacco's. Smith has 1 winning season, 1 playoff win, battled injuries, & been benched multiple times. Flacco has never missed a game, has never had a losing season, is 9-4 in the postseason and has never been benched in favor of Troy Smith, Shaun Hill, or JT O'Sullivan. Flacco has outperformed him in total and has only 5 years compared to Smith's 7.
MYTH BUSTERS

2008 Martz was brought over by Nolan and in an attempt to save his job brought in JT who already knew the system from Det. Nolan had screwed Smith the year before. Anyway his shoulder has a fracture and is on IR before the season starts. JT is benched for Shaun Hill.
Singletary has no connection to Smith and will go on to show lack of any pass offense intuition.
Hill has some luck in 2009 but anyone can see in is a house of cards. Hill is a good guy but is limited in this limited offense on top. So he is taking sacks on 10% on the snaps. And other than 2 long catches is averaging 5.44 yards per attempt. Teams caught on to the team and his tendencies and he was DOA in the start @ HOU where in the 1st half he went 6-11 for 45 yards.
Take away Smith's 4 longest gains in 2009 to be more than fair to Hill and it is still higher at 5.83
And he cuts the sacks taken almost in half.

2010. Singletary is still an incompetent.
I can remember the Monday night game week 2 where the Saints KNEW some of our plays. A CB left the WR and crashed in cause he knew it was a rush play.
Week 3 KC defense was calling out what we were going to do.
OC Jimmy Raye is fired.

Blown assignment on a block and Smith left shoulder is smashed.
Carr comes in and sucks.
Troy Smith is plugged in and has some luck chucking balls.
Then are shutout vs. Tampa
Win at AZ while he goes 11 for 23 with 129 yards
10 for 25 at GB

Is finally benched.

Smith is put in.



But cause the coach doesn't know what he is doing with the playoffs on the line cause 7-9 49ers win tiebreak Sing benches Alex Smith and goes back to Troy Smith.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ams-highlights

Just look at him. A complete spaz a couple good passes but killed drives all over the place.
Panic button puts in Alex Smith in 4th after all the punts and a safety and a horrible INT.
It was too late.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Is that Ryan Gossling?
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Is that Ryan Gossling?


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Old 03-02-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Ryan Gosling's probably got a better deep ball.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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I still laugh when I think that this actually happened. Kinda like the weeden pick last year I don't think I'll ever really accept that a team was actually this dumb.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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The best move for the Chiefs is still to draft Geno #1. Alex Smith is nothing more than a stopgap, but he's the perfect guy to lead the team while a young QB learns on the bench.

The #1 need for this team is still a franchise caliber QB. That is always your need until you address it, and only fools think that's what the Chiefs did with Alex Smith.

It'll still be an OT though. Albert will walk and the pick will be Joeckel or Fisher. Sidegrade sidegrade sidegrade.

Settling for mediocrity instead of striving for greatness. - The KC Chiefs
You must know how similar this is to the 49ers in 2005.

Shoot for the stars with a project QB #1.

Assessable the backbone of a NFL team, O and D lines on the fly. Throw money at Nate Clements. And grab what you can find for cheap on the WR market while counting on Vernon Davis to become a good NFL TE not just a Madden beast.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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You must know how similar this is to the 49ers in 2005.

Shoot for the stars with a project QB #1.

Assessable the backbone of a NFL team, O and D lines on the fly. Throw money at Nate Clements. And grab what you can find for cheap on the WR market while counting on Vernon Davis to become a good NFL TE not just a Madden beast.
Yeah what the 49ers should have done back then is trade the 33rd pick for Jon Kitna and then extend him. That would have been a much better move

Then they could have had their choice of the mediocre top 10 type talent that existed in that draft as well.

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Old 03-02-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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VV just used drafting Alex Smith as an example of a bad idea to support trading too much for him and giving him an extension as a good one.

VV just incepted this thread, y'all.
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