Damontre Moore, OLB, Texas A&M

[DeepThreat]

I like Moore in a 3-4 defense, but not as much as some seem to. He seems like he'd be better off lined up further outside, both to help his pass rush and to negate his lack of ability against the run.

I'd probably take him mid-first as a 3-4 team.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by 87Canes

What about Miami? Ray Lewis? Jon Beason? Jon Vilma? Colin McCarthy? DJ Williams? Ted Hendricks?

I think LB U shouldn't be about who has the most but instead the quality of those players. None of the above mentioned PSU guys come close to Ray Ray or even Ted Hendricks.

Because Penn State was actually coined "Linebacker U" by the media back-in-the-day. He was studying the validity of such assertions.

[bigbuc]

This guy has over 37 TFL and 20 sacks over the last two years. Is he top 5 player yet?

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by stlouisfan37

I have found it to be very cyclical. About 6 years ago I did a study on whether or not statements like "Penn St=Linebacker U" actually held water. At that time the only linebacker from Penn St. who was starting in the NFL was Antonio Pierce, and the Giants cut him the next year.

And the school that produced the most starting offensive linemen? I was shocked to discover that it was...wait for it...Purdue?

Antonio Pierce went to Arizona, not PSU.

[RCAChainGang]

I like his instincts to clog running lanes, but he just looked a little sluggish. I have only seen the KSU tape, but when a lineman got his hands on him he struggled to make an impact. He definitely has potential and looks like he is still learning to jump snaps, but I would put him behind several other pass rushers.

I'm no no draft guru though.

[bruschis4all]

Originally Posted by 87Canes

What about Miami? Ray Lewis? Jon Beason? Jon Vilma? Colin McCarthy? DJ Williams? Ted Hendricks?

I think LB U shouldn't be about who has the most but instead the quality of those players. None of the above mentioned PSU guys come close to Ray Ray or even Ted Hendricks.

You have to have more than 300 fans attend your games in order to be called Linebacker U.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-...99--ncaaf.html

[Brent]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

This guy has over 37 TFL and 20 sacks over the last two years. Is he top 5 player yet?

he should be

[JHL6719]

Derrick Thomas, Cornelius Bennett, Lee Roy Jordan, DeMeco Ryans, Keith McCants, Woodrow Lowe, Barry Krauss, E.J. Junior, Rolando McClain, Dont'a Hightower....

[Abaddon]

Josh Liskiewitz ‏@JoshLiskiewitz
I talked at length the other day about the two tackles, but not as much on DE Damontre Moore - I gave him a 2nd round grade...

Josh Liskiewitz ‏@JoshLiskiewitz
Moore has a lot of skills you like in a DE prospect, but I don't see him bringing it consistently and he isn't an elite athlete.

[Unbiased]

Originally Posted by bruschis4all

You have to have more than 300 fans attend your games in order to be called Linebacker U.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-...99--ncaaf.html

Irrelevant post of the year....

[SomethingAboutFB]

Originally Posted by RCAChainGang

I like his instincts to clog running lanes, but he just looked a little sluggish. I have only seen the KSU tape, but when a lineman got his hands on him he struggled to make an impact. He definitely has potential and looks like he is still learning to jump snaps, but I would put him behind several other pass rushers.

I'm no no draft guru though.

I agree with you. I watched the cutup of Moore in the Mizzou game and LSU, he just looks slow off the snap. But tonight Cotton Bowl game, he is exploding off the LOS like there is no tomorrow. @DaneBugler said he's inconsistent, which i really see. But once he's on, he will destroy you!

Mid 1st rd would be my guess. At first I thought of him as a 3-4 OLB pass rush specialist, but tonight he showed me he can be a good 3-4 DE/DT

[derza222]

Didn't think I saw that lack of athleticism he showed at the combine on tape, but I think it warrants a second look. Pro day will be pretty key. Where does he land now if the combine numbers stand up? Late 1/early 2 range if not worse?

[Abaddon]

I sure did have this kid's natural talent overrated. Holy smokes.

[PossibleCabbage]

Personally, not a fan. He can win in college, but I don't see a guy who can beat NFL talent around the edge. When I'm looking at a pass rusher I want to see something special (anything: motor, burst, strength, dip, whatever) and I can deal with deficient areas.

With Moore I see a guy who's more "no real flaws, but not significantly above average at anything". Second round pick, IMO. Not really because he's a top 50 talent, but because pass rushers always run out quickly.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage

Personally, not a fan. He can win in college, but I don't see a guy who can beat NFL talent around the edge. When I'm looking at a pass rusher I want to see something special (anything: motor, burst, strength, dip, whatever) and I can deal with deficient areas.

With Moore I see a guy who's more "no real flaws, but not significantly above average at anything". Second round pick, IMO. Not really because he's a top 50 talent, but because pass rushers always run out quickly.

I couldn't find the post, but I mentioned long ago that he looked to have a gut like a guy in his late 30's. Given his combine performance, I don't think it was due to the angle of the camera.

[Kase1]

Im not big on the combine, so the fact that he 'tanked' at the combine doesn't do much for me, look at Vontaze Burfict last year. The kid STUNK at the combine and gave awful interviews, stepped into the NFL and played like a monster

That being said, I would LOVE 'Da Monster' Moore in the 2nd

[raphael]

I like Moore a lot. You don't put up the production he did at such a young age through luck. He just turned 20 midway through last season. Plus he has such an all round game. With a lot of these guys it's an all or nothing case. Either they get to the quarterback or they're a handicap having on the field. The best of them get one sack a game on average. How much is that worth in terms of the negatives they bring when they don't get a sack? Aldon Smith played less than half his team's defensive snaps as a rookie and everyone was creaming themselves over him. Moore is an every down guy, and equally effective at end or linebacker. He led the team in tackles from the DE position last year. That is unheard of. Has the size (6-5, 250, 35" arms) to match up with the freak tight ends over the middle. Huge upside as well, with a pro workout program to firm up his body. Great character and personality. He and Luke Joeckel are the pick of the litter in this draft. Geno Smith not far behind.

[bigbuc]

So let me get this right, Ziggy is 24 years old ran a 4.6 and is now a top 5 pick. Moore is 20 years old has done more in one season than Ziggy has in his whole life on a football field and is falling to the second round?

[raphael]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

So let me get this right, Ziggy is 24 years old ran a 4.6 and is now a top 5 pick. Moore is 20 years old has done more in one season than Ziggy has in his whole life on a football field and is falling to the second round?

I know, it's loopy. Plus football was Ansah's fourth or fifth choice in terms of trying to make a living off his athletic ability. Not to mention that he converted to Mormonism on a dime to get a ticket to the U.S. The guy will probably wind up pushing off for the Olympic bobsled team in a couple of years.

[PossibleCabbage]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

So let me get this right, Ziggy is 24 years old ran a 4.6 and is now a top 5 pick. Moore is 20 years old has done more in one season than Ziggy has in his whole life on a football field and is falling to the second round?

You aren't drafted for what you did.

You're drafted for what we think you can do versus NFL talent.

If you draft people solely based on what they did in college, Everette Brown and Kellen Moore would have been top 10 picks. Brown's Senior Season at FSU was arguably more impressive than Moore's last season at TAMU, but Everette Brown couldn't beat anybody in the NFL. What makes you think Moore can?

That's the question you should be considering, not "what did he do in college."

As for Ansah, sure he only had 4.5 sacks in his college career, but you know who else had 4.5 sacks in his college career and was mistakenly selected behind 5 other pass rushers? Clay Matthews. If you think a guy's going to be great, then it doesn't really matter what he did in college.

[SenorGato]

E.Brown was like 5'10 or something on top of not testing very well. Matthews was a LB not a DE in college.

I'm waiting for Moore's pro day before I'm off.

[raphael]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

E.Brown was like 5'10 or something on top of not testing very well. Matthews was a LB not a DE in college.

I'm waiting for Moore's pro day before I'm off.

Brown actually tested pretty well, 4.65 40, 26 reps, in those two events. But he had 71 tackles over three seasons in college, Moore had 85 last year alone. PLAYING DE So, yeah bad comparison. Damontre was a couple of years younger when he did it as well.

Matthews grew up in football and loved the game so much he walked on at USC to get a chance to play. Ansah could care less. He tried just about every other sport going before ending up on a football field, and has hated the game for the most part since he did, according to reports from BYU. Again there is at least a two year age difference between the two athletes coming out. I'm betting on more than that. I'd say that Ansah is closer to 30 than 20 at the moment. Also Clay had 5.5 sacks fwtw...

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Kase1

Im not big on the combine, so the fact that he 'tanked' at the combine doesn't do much for me, look at Vontaze Burfict last year. The kid STUNK at the combine and gave awful interviews, stepped into the NFL and played like a monster

That being said, I would LOVE 'Da Monster' Moore in the 2nd

Burfict isn't that good.

[metafour]

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage

You aren't drafted for what you did.

You're drafted for what we think you can do versus NFL talent.

Yes, but where does Age relative to Performance fit into the picture? I actually considered starting a thread on this because this question goes relatively unanswered in the football scouting world, whereas for instance in baseball it pretty much shapes and defines player evaluation. Nothing paints this picture better than the International Free Agent market in baseball in which 16 year olds from Latin America are signed by MLB teams. A 16 year old showing certain tools/physical skills can be worth $1.5 million...however, that exact same player might be worth $10,000 or less if he is 18 years old instead of 16. Even 1-2 years makes a giant difference...so much so that the MLB has been fighting age and identity tampering for years. There are countless cases of kids taking on entirely new identities so that they can pass off as ~2 years younger in the eyes of evaluators. Obviously the baseball model cant simply be shifted over to football; but could this be a bigger growth indicator in football than most make it out to be?

Damontre Moore is extremely young for the class he is in. He will be just a month over 20.5 years old come draft day. He is a full 2 years younger than Werner, more than 2 years younger than Montgomery, just under 2 years younger than Mingo. 3.5 years younger than Carradine. These guys all compete at the same Combine; but there is quite a bit of variance in how old they are relative to one another. Think of it this way...Moore could have came back for his Senior season, and by next year's draft would still be younger than all of the players I mentioned above will be this year. He could sit on his ass for a full year after that, and only then would he be of comparable age to most of the top DE's in this draft.

The question here is how you fit his age into his overall scouting profile. IMO given his age and weak Combine, you almost have to look at him as a project player. However...the flip-side to that coin is that his age could mean that this kid has a lot left in the tank in terms of physical projection. What would his 40 time be in 2-3 years, or his bench press? How about his overall physical package? It wont be until 2-3 years from now that he will actually be the same age as the majority of his "competition" in this year's draft. How will his skills have evolved or devolved in that large time-frame?

[raphael]

Originally Posted by metafour

Yes, but where does Age relative to Performance fit into the picture? I actually considered starting a thread on this because this question goes relatively unanswered in the football scouting world, whereas for instance in baseball it pretty much shapes and defines player evaluation. Nothing paints this picture better than the International Free Agent market in baseball in which 16 year olds from Latin America are signed by MLB teams. A 16 year old showing certain tools/physical skills can be worth $1.5 million...however, that exact same player might be worth $10,000 or less if he is 18 years old instead of 16. Even 1-2 years makes a giant difference...so much so that the MLB has been fighting age and identity tampering for years. There are countless cases of kids taking on entirely new identities so that they can pass off as ~2 years younger in the eyes of evaluators. Obviously the baseball model cant simply be shifted over to football; but could this be a bigger growth indicator in football than most make it out to be?
Damontre Moore is extremely young for the class he is in. He will be just a month over 20.5 years old come draft day. He is a full 2 years younger than Werner, more than 2 years younger than Montgomery, just under 2 years younger than Mingo. 3.5 years younger than Carradine. These guys all compete at the same Combine; but there is quite a bit of variance in how old they are relative to one another. Think of it this way...Moore could have came back for his Senior season, and by next year's draft would still be younger than all of the players I mentioned above will be this year. He could sit on his ass for a full year after that, and only then would he be of comparable age to most of the top DE's in this draft.

The question here is how you fit his age into his overall scouting profile. IMO given his age and weak Combine, you almost have to look at him as a project player. However...the flip-side to that coin is that his age could mean that this kid has a lot left in the tank in terms of physical projection. What would his 40 time be in 2-3 years, or his bench press? How about his overall physical package? It wont be until 2-3 years from now that he will actually be the same age as the majority of his "competition" in this year's draft. How will his skills have evolved or devolved in that large time-frame?

Been trying to get this point across for awhile. Moore has longer arms than guys who are 20-30 pounds heavier and four or five years older than himself. Obviously he isn't going to compare well in a strength test. But would he be a better prospect if he was 23 instead of 20, with 31" arms instead of 35" arms? I'm sure he'd probably do 25-30 reps if that were the case, without much problem.

His 40 was a mess because he pulled a muscle, probably. Not that he would break any records healthy, but he was top 5 in both his jumps, which shows the explosiveness is there. Damontre had better stats at his age than Von Miller did playing for the same team. Miller was rated as a second round pick after his junior season. They were playing lesser competition then as well.

He is in the top ten in both vertical and broad jumps for all DE tested at the Combine over the past three years. That is enough athleticism for me.