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Old 03-07-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by raphael View Post
Manuel's completion rates in his four seasons were 65.1, 69.9, 65.3, and 68.
His passer ratings 153.3, 151.2, 156. Each year he won a Bowl Game. Where is the "inconsistency"? As for attributing it to all that "talent" around him, none of the offensive players there his final season were there his first season. He played the same throughout his career, pretty much, regardless of who was around him.
The inconsistency is not season-to-season necessarily, but game-to-game, and within the the game. I like Manuel more than most, but he wouldn't have had that high comp % for just any team. When Manuel had to throw over the middle of the field or throw with touch, he did struggle at times. He threw to an awful lot of stationary targets and seemed very uncomfortable when pressured. His accuracy was much better when he was stationary.

Manuel's struggles against better teams are also troubling (Oklahoma '11, Florida '11, Florida '12). While it certainly makes sense that a player would do worse when they faced a good defense, Manuel did clearly benefit from all the talent surrounding him and is probably not quite as good as his stats would generally indicate. Geno Smith has some of the same problems, but Smith's overall body of work is more impressive, Smith has had some good games against decent defenses, and Smith has shown the ability to throw with a level of accuracy Manuel does not possess.

I think Manuel is probably a 3rd-4th round guy who could go earlier who would fit best on a team that runs a lot of play action. Manuel has a pretty nice arm when things don't break down, and his athleticism adds a nice dimension to his game, but he just lacks the accuracy/ball placement to likely be an instant contributor or a starter in the short term.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Who did he really beat in college? He got spanked by Oklahoma in 2011 and did nothing against florida in 2011 as well and got pummeled by Florida again this year.
Check out the second half of the Champs Sports Bowl vs. Notre Dame where he lead FSU from down 14-0 to a win while playing with a broken fibula.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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He's the 2nd best QB in the draft to Geno Smith and I've said that before combine and the senior bowl (far more upside than Matt Barkley). I've seen him play at Bayside for years prior to going to the NFL. He was a member of the elite 11 along with Glennon, Luck, Jones, Jacory Harris, Sean Renfree, Dane Crist and Blaine Gabbert. I find it a little curious how so many people here claim they never heard of him.
Well guys, you can continue to disagree with me, but Mayock has come around to my side.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...st-qb-in-draft
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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It's not just Manuel's athleticism that makes him a good prospect. He had excellant numbers in college, won a lot of games, and won four bowl games in four years there. Plus he was an All Academic selection a few times. It's hard to find a reason that he wouldn't succeed at the next level.
Unless you've watched him play. He's one of the most uninspiring QB I've ever watched. He doesn't seem football smart. Nothing on the field comes very naturally to him when you watch him play.

Athletic? Maybe in shorts. He is athletic for a big QB...he's in the Matt Cassel class of athleticism (i.e. he can run, but it takes him a few steps to get going).
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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Unless you've watched him play. He's one of the most uninspiring QB I've ever watched. He doesn't seem football smart. Nothing on the field comes very naturally to him when you watch him play.
I don't know how you say that when he moves outside of the pocket and decides to run with the ball.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Mayock is the guy who had Sanchez ahead of Stafford and Gabbert ahead of Newton. I'm not sure he knows what he is doing when he ranks QBs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Mayock is the guy who had Sanchez ahead of Stafford and Gabbert ahead of Newton. I'm not sure he knows what he is doing when he ranks QBs.
Mayock is just going off what the scouts tell him. Scouts had Gabbert ahead of Newton for the most part in 2011. I think they were right. Blaine had better numbers than Newton up to the point where he was injured this past season. Newt just piled up cheap garbage times stats after the Panthers were eliminated from the playoffs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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We don't need to complicate things. Newton can play in the NFL. Gabbert can't. It's that simple. Gabbert was not even a big time player in college. Maybe Newton slipped in terms of hard work after a rookie season that made him a star, but when he is on he plays like a young franchise QB. Gabbert? Cut him. This game isn't for him.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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We don't need to complicate things. Newton can play in the NFL. Gabbert can't. It's that simple. Gabbert was not even a bit time player in college. Maybe Newton slipped in terms of hard work after a stellar rookie season that made him a star, but when he is on he plays like a young franchise QB. Gabbert? Cut him. This game isn't for him.
Life's simple for some.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Mayock is the guy who had Sanchez ahead of Stafford and Gabbert ahead of Newton. I'm not sure he knows what he is doing when he ranks QBs.
Unless it's a defensive back evaluation he has no clue what he is doing with his rankings.

Manuel as the second rated QB is a complete joke. He shouldn't be in the top ten. I get it you really want to fall in love with his skill set. His game doesn't translate. He can't adjust his throwing motion on the run or with pressure in his face. He needs everything to go perfect and lacks second reaction QB skills.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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I had second round to the Eagles, but I can see him getting pushed up if someone gets a little antsy.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Check out the second half of the Champs Sports Bowl vs. Notre Dame where he lead FSU from down 14-0 to a win while playing with a broken fibula.
So playing on a broken fibula makes notre dame a good team? Try again.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Unless it's a defensive back evaluation he has no clue what he is doing with his rankings.

Manuel as the second rated QB is a complete joke. He shouldn't be in the top ten. I get it you really want to fall in love with his skill set. His game doesn't translate. He can't adjust his throwing motion on the run or with pressure in his face. He needs everything to go perfect and lacks second reaction QB skills.
This is the joke of the entire thread. Statements like this is not how you build credibility.

But the biggest joke of all is the idea that anyone here does't take their lead from the big dog draft experts. The only reason you people had Manuel rated as a 4th rounder is because most of the draft experts did. They you gather any data you can to try and support the opinion, knowing you can't go wrong because it's actually not your opinion, it's the experts opinion. We all do it; however, when I have personally had a lot of exposure to a given player, I form my own opinion. This is how I came to the conclusion that Ansah was a first rounder during the college season when he wasn't ranked by the experts. It's why I said Colin Kaepernick was a first round pick two years ago when most experts had him as a fifth rounder or candidate for position change. Am I making the claim that I know it all? No, not even close. But I know what I know, and IMO, Manuel was going to be a first round pick from the time he played in high school based on his dimensions, skill set and character. We will see if I am right.

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Old 03-07-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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This is the joke of the entire thread. Statements like this is not how you build credibility.

But the biggest joke of all is the idea that anyone here does't take their lead from the big dog draft experts. The only reason you people had Manuel rated as a 4th rounder is because most of the draft experts did. They you gather any data you can to try and support the opinion, knowing you can't go wrong because it's actually not your opinion, it's the experts opinion. We all do it; however, when I have personally had a lot of exposure to a given player, I form my own opinion. This is how I came to the conclusion that Ansah was a first rounder during the college season when he wasn't ranked by the experts. It's why I said Colin Kaepernick was a first round pick two years ago when most experts had him as a fifth rounder or candidate for position change. Am I making the claim that I know it all? No, not even close. But I know what I know, and IMO, Manuel was going to be a first round pick from the time he played in high school based on his dimensions, skill set and character. We will see if I am right.
I guess in this draft he does belong in the top ten but I don't see more than an average career backup if that.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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This is the joke of the entire thread. Statements like this is not how you build credibility.
Let's go ahead and focus on someone exaggerating!

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But the biggest joke of all is the idea that anyone here does't take their lead from the big dog draft experts. The only reason you people had Manuel rated as a 4th rounder is because most of the draft experts did.
Nope. I've seen him play. The game clearly doesn't come easy to him. Everything seems forced and unnatural with the guy. He doesn't trust himself or his teammates.

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Manuel was going to be a first round pick from the time he played in high school based on his dimensions, skill set and character. We will see if I am right.
How many QBs go into college football with that same line every ******* year?

Sure, he could turn into a decent player. Anything's possible. But your argument seems really backwards. Because if you look at the numbers, you'd say what you're saying. People who don't like him much are people that have seen him play and be horribly underwhelming in every single way because the combine numbers and stat sheets simply don't match up to what we see on the field.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Nope. I've seen him play. The game clearly doesn't come easy to him. Everything seems forced and unnatural with the guy. He doesn't trust himself or his teammates.
This /thread.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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Let's go ahead and focus on someone exaggerating!



Nope. I've seen him play. The game clearly doesn't come easy to him. Everything seems forced and unnatural with the guy. He doesn't trust himself or his teammates.



How many QBs go into college football with that same line every ******* year?

Sure, he could turn into a decent player. Anything's possible. But your argument seems really backwards. Because if you look at the numbers, you'd say what you're saying. People who don't like him much are people that have seen him play and be horribly underwhelming in every single way because the combine numbers and stat sheets simply don't match up to what we see on the field.
Um, his "stat sheet" is excellent, so your argument is the one that is backwards. His completion %, win %, bowl record and QB rating has been posted more than once in this thread. But the way, stats don't necessarily correlate directly with combine numbers, so what are you talking about?

I seriously doubt you have seen him play more than I have seen him play being that I have seen him play in both college and high school, something else I covered in the thread you apparently haven't read.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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Default Was too low but now too High...

EJ Manuel was too low ranked at 7 or 8 but is to high at 2.. Mayock got word of some team that likes him and wants to do read option and he is covering his ass.. Manual is good and will do well in the right situation.

1st Concern is that he threw it only 698 times in college the least number of all QB's in the draft.. in the NFL he will have to throw it 550-600 times a year..

2nd Concern.. He took 59 sacks those two years.. thatís 30 sacks for only 350 attempts every 11 passes he is sacked? I thought he was fast and mobile does Florida state have that bad of an o line.. Did he not throw it away or avoid the pressure or did he just take the sack.. Does it count as a sack if a QB runs it and is tackled behind the Line o Scrimmage??? Heís has more potential than brey Nessib dysert glennon and Wilson.. His throwing talent is a ?? too
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Um, his "stat sheet" is excellent, so your argument is the one that is backwards. His completion %, win %, bowl record and QB rating has been posted more than once in this thread. But the way, stats don't necessarily correlate directly with combine numbers, so what are you talking about?

I seriously doubt you have seen him play more than I have seen him play being that I have seen him play in both college and high school, something else I covered in the thread you apparently haven't read.
We all recognize the fact that you have seen him play more than any of us and developed some kind of bond to which you blindly think he will succeed at everything. It happens to the best of us.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
We all recognize the fact that you have seen him play more than any of us and developed some kind of bond to which you blindly think he will succeed at everything. It happens to the best of us.
It's okay, you can trivialize my stance all you want, but when it's all said and done, the guy you claimed wasn't one of the ten best QBs in the draft will be a first round pick. We'll see who's making the cute comments then.

As far as me repeating myself about having seen him play a lot, my response was too a guy who was clearly suggesting that I hadn't seen him play and was judging him on stats. Then you jumped in.

Last edited by Black Bolt : 03-07-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:21 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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EJ Manuel was too low ranked at 7 or 8 but is to high at 2.. Mayock got word of some team that likes him and wants to do read option and he is covering his ass.. Manual is good and will do well in the right situation.

1st Concern is that he threw it only 698 times in college the least number of all QB's in the draft.. in the NFL he will have to throw it 550-600 times a year..

2nd Concern.. He took 59 sacks those two years.. that’s 30 sacks for only 350 attempts every 11 passes he is sacked? I thought he was fast and mobile does Florida state have that bad of an o line.. Did he not throw it away or avoid the pressure or did he just take the sack.. Does it count as a sack if a QB runs it and is tackled behind the Line o Scrimmage??? He’s has more potential than brey Nessib dysert glennon and Wilson.. His throwing talent is a ?? too
No problem with any of those concerns with exception to the # of passes he threw which means nothing IMO. He's not perfect, but like have been saying, he's better than the rest of these clowns posing as first round picks. I have gone to bat for both Smith and Manuel and it looks like things are falling into place.

As far as Mayock, he said he watched three more of his games. I don't know if he is lying or not.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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going in the first won't make him a success, its very likely that a team falls in love with him and picks him up only for him to fail.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:27 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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going in the first won't make him a success, its very likely that a team falls in love with him and picks him up only for him to fail.
Okay. I never suggested where he goes in the draft was linked to his success. All I have ever said was is that in a relatively weak QB draft that followed a very strong QB draft, Manuel was severely underrated. The consensus now is that I was right.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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As much as I didn't realize how much people loved Tank during the year, I also did not realize the amount of hate EJ Manuel was receiving until this offseason on this board.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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It's okay, you can trivialize my stance all you want, but when it's all said and done, the guy you claimed wasn't one of the ten best QBs in the draft will be a first round pick. We'll see who's making the cute comments then.

As far as me repeating myself about having seen him play a lot, my response was too a guy who was clearly suggesting that I hadn't seen him play and was judging him on stats. Then you jumped in.
I am not doubting at all that he will go in the second or first round. I am saying he won't be a successful pro because of the reasons I listed.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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