The Kansas City Chiefs Select... - Page 86

Cigaro · 03-07-2013, 07:00 PM

Why do people think Floyd can all of a sudden play the 5-tech in the NFL, when he wasn't particularly good at it when logged a whole season there in college? He played an entire season at the 5-tech and didn't manage to get his first sack until the bowl game, and people now believe he'll actually a threat off the edge in the NFL?

Pass rushing defensive tackle, fine. Defensive end? No thanks. Just because he played defensive end doesn't mean he played it well.

findthedr · 03-07-2013, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

Greg Cosell disagreed with this.

I disagree with Cosell

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

There wasn't any real "mistake" with playing Dorsey at the 5-tech. They were just kind of stuck with him and he was the best option. He was actually really good at it his second year (like really good), but regressed in 2011 and 2012.

Their were times when he was very good against the run, but he has no passrush ability. I realize 3-4 lineman arent really asked to passrush, but he and Jackson are terrible when compared even to their peers (other 3-4DE).

Finally, he doesnt command double teams. Most of the time he can be taken out with a single block.

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

Cosell also compared him to JJ Watt...haha I think not

exactly. Watt is 6'5'' with 34'' arms. He uses that length to to contain against the run, and bat down passes. He is a prototypical 3-4DE.

vidae · 03-07-2013, 08:38 PM

Floyd being compared to Watt is just flat out ridiculous.

nepg · 03-07-2013, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by findthedr

Their were times when he was very good against the run, but he has no passrush ability. I realize 3-4 lineman arent really asked to passrush, but he and Jackson are terrible when compared even to their peers (other 3-4DE).

Finally, he doesnt command double teams. Most of the time he can be taken out with a single block.

The problem is when people tried to say something along these lines, they get compared to Richard ******* Seymour and Aaron Smith. The two best 3-4 DEs ever. That's just crazy unfair and unrealistic. Yeah, they're underwhelming, but anything more than eating blockers and containing the run is gravy with 3-4 DEs. Dorsey was Pro Bowl level in 2010, but certainly warranted replacing in the years following.

People get spoiled by guys like Seymour, Smith, Smith, and Watt and expect all 3-4 linemen to be like that.

SRK85 · 03-07-2013, 09:49 PM

I bet they take Fisher. Nothing against Joeckel just having a feeling that the Chiefs will go with Fisher.

findthedr · 03-07-2013, 09:59 PM

I bet they take neither Joeckel or Fisher.

Black Bolt · 03-07-2013, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigaro

Why do people think Floyd can all of a sudden play the 5-tech in the NFL, when he wasn't particularly good at it when logged a whole season there in college? He played an entire season at the 5-tech and didn't manage to get his first sack until the bowl game, and people now believe he'll actually a threat off the edge in the NFL?

Pass rushing defensive tackle, fine. Defensive end? No thanks. Just because he played defensive end doesn't mean he played it well.

More of this bizzare Floyd hype.

Black Bolt · 03-07-2013, 10:09 PM

Brian Baldinger just dinged Joeckel's balls.

pierce2walker · 03-07-2013, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

More of this bizzare Floyd hype.

His rise certainly has been a bit bizarre. Not that he isn't a good player or worth some hype, but it kind of came out of nowhere. He wasn't getting a bunch of hype during the regular season and then about a week or two before the combine people were saying he was top 5. Like a couple guys mentioned that he was top 5 everyone else just kind of followed suit. He didn't have some freakish combine either. I would understand a bit more if he played at a small school, but the dude played at Florida so he had plenty of exposure.

gpngc · 03-07-2013, 10:28 PM

Floyd's rise was a product of draftniks being behind real scouts. As the bridge, Daniel Jeremiah started closing the gap. Then Mayock and Kiper and everyone started hyping him. And Cosell, as probably the most respected film-watcher of all, gave rave reviews.

I'm not sure if I would take Floyd at No. 1. But I think he might be the best defensive prospect in the draft.

And he could play 3-technique on passing downs.

I think he's the most likely pick unless Albert agrees to play RT.

Black Bolt · 03-07-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

Floyd's rise was a product of draftniks being behind real scouts. As the bridge, Daniel Jeremiah started closing the gap. Then Mayock and Kiper and everyone started hyping him. And Cosell, as probably the most respected film-watcher of all, gave rave reviews.

I'm not sure if I would take Floyd at No. 1. But I think he might be the best defensive prospect in the draft.

And he could play 3-technique on passing downs.

I think he's the most likely pick unless Albert agrees to play RT.

Wait a second, WHAT??? This guy does not, in any way, shape or form fit in a 3-4 defense. The Chiefs picking him would be utter madness.

pierce2walker · 03-07-2013, 10:42 PM

I'm not saying he isn't good, his rise was just unusually timed. You typically see players garner a lot of attention either during/right after the season or during/right after the combine.

gpngc · 03-07-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Wait a second, WHAT??? This guy does not, in any way, shape or form fit in a 3-4 defense. The Chiefs picking him would be utter madness.

I side with Cosell. I think he's gifted enough to make an impact as a 2-gap player on 1 and 2. And a big-time inside pass rusher on the most important down.

descendency · 03-07-2013, 10:45 PM

I'd rather have Ansah and Milliner (without question) before Floyd. Floyd was very good on tape, but not top 5 good. I have no idea where this madness is coming from.

gpngc · 03-07-2013, 10:48 PM

To expand on Floyd - I'd be pretty surprised if he lasted to four. In fact, I'm almost ready to guarantee he doesn't last to three.

He's absolutely perfect for Jacksonville. Perfect.

vidae · 03-07-2013, 10:48 PM

Per Ian Rapaport, the Chiefs are continuing to work with Branden Albert on a new contract, and view him as the long term answer at left tackle, not right.

Brothgar · 03-07-2013, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierce2walker

His rise certainly has been a bit bizarre. Not that he isn't a good player or worth some hype, but it kind of came out of nowhere. He wasn't getting a bunch of hype during the regular season and then about a week or two before the combine people were saying he was top 5. Like a couple guys mentioned that he was top 5 everyone else just kind of followed suit. He didn't have some freakish combine either. I would understand a bit more if he played at a small school, but the dude played at Florida so he had plenty of exposure.

Usually when it come out of nowhere like this I tend to think that someone with reliable sources within an organization heard a team in the top 10 is enthralled with him. Thus a huge rise.

pierce2walker · 03-07-2013, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brothgar

Usually when it come out of nowhere like this I tend to think that someone with reliable sources within an organization heard a team in the top 10 is enthralled with him. Thus a huge rise.

Probably. It was just a funny though. Nobody was talking about him after the season. Then a week or two before the combine a rumbling of his being top 5 happened. Then by the time the combine rolled around everyone was all up on his nuts. It was like prospect bandwagoning.

Roddoliver · 03-07-2013, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigaro

Why do people think Floyd can all of a sudden play the 5-tech in the NFL, when he wasn't particularly good at it when logged a whole season there in college? He played an entire season at the 5-tech and didn't manage to get his first sack until the bowl game, and people now believe he'll actually a threat off the edge in the NFL?

Pass rushing defensive tackle, fine. Defensive end? No thanks. Just because he played defensive end doesn't mean he played it well.

Tyson Jackson all over again. Here we go.

nepg · 03-07-2013, 11:00 PM

The first time I'd seen him projected in the Top 20 was when Pioli released his Top 10.

pierce2walker · 03-07-2013, 11:02 PM

I think Floyd is an excellent prospect as a 43 UT, but I don't buy the versatility thing with him. I think his lack of length will really hurt him as a 34 end.

Scotty D · 03-07-2013, 11:06 PM

If I remember correctly the Chandler Jones hype didn't come out until just before the draft.

pierce2walker · 03-07-2013, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty D

If I remember correctly the Chandler Jones hype didn't come out until just before the draft.

If I remember correctly, he gained a good bit of hype during/after the combine.

gpngc · 03-07-2013, 11:16 PM

You can absolutely see the appeal on tape. He's just so gifted. And apparently everyone likes the intangibles. He plays all three downs WELL - many DTs can't do that. Endurance. These are things we don't consider that teams do.

Like I said, the ":rise" came from Jeremiah via scouts and a high-ranking executive (I'd guess from the Ravens) guaranteeing a top-10 pick. He was always ranked high. We just didn't know it.

This reminds me of Bruce Irvin - his stock "rose" the day of the draft. He was getting first round hype for the first time ever on that day and everyone was skeptical. Then they all screamed reach. He was always ranked high - we just didn't know it.

Sometimes we don't have the full story for guys.

I highly doubt that the NFL scouts and Cosell are all in the wrong and our stock watch on him is catching something incorrect.

EDIT: Maybe some of you don't watch NFLN or don't have it. Their coverage of Floyd has been pretty consistent. He's been universally regarded as one of the top prospects in the draft since before the combine. And he had a great combine.

WCH · 03-07-2013, 11:24 PM

The Irvin "rise" kind of bugs me because it was kind of obvious. Good stats, good triangle numbers, good tape. You take that type of guy every day of the week and twice on draft day.

Irvin might bust yet, but he was always going to be a high pick. I'd like to know what type of scuttlebutt was going through the professional draftnik community to make people think the way they did.