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Old 01-29-2013, 10:31 PM    (permalink
MI_Buckeye
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Originally Posted by TitanHope View Post
I forget how well Watt did, but he's certainly a monster physically and his strength is worth accolade. Apart from that, I hope you're not letting his NFL success dictate your view. Watt had great tape, and if he put on a combine performance that rivals the best going back decades, then he's a Top 3 pick. Instead, he went 11th. Perhaps I'm just misremembering, but I'd choose Pep between the two.
No, he's very accurate about Watt. I remember looking at Watt's numbers and thinking they were almost something unhuman. He ran in the 4.7-4.8 range and had the best 3-cone and shuttle times of all linemen. He was a freak in all regards, and it shows in the NFL. I hate to think his athleticism was underrated because he's white.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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Where will this guy this rank amongst Peppers & Co?:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm5WIXPSPiU
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAO7m1IfoDQ
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W26Dcns1Mxg
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
That's great and Ware is a great choice; however, the question pretained to players when they were draft prospects, not after they were NFL players.

But I do have question for everyone. I wonder how Bruce Smith's numbers and measurables coming out stack up to those of the freaks of the last couple decades?
Bruce Smith was a 300+# DT prospect when he was drafted 1/1 out of Va Tech. He got himself into elite condition in Buffalo, dropped about 35# and transformed into a HOFer.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post
Careful with using electronic times versus watch times. Most of the older guys being mentioned had the luxury of being timed on a stopwatch. For hand-times round up to the nearest tenth then add 0.24.
This is why guys trust their own hand-held times.

We've seen video evidence where electronic times were straight-up WRONG. Yet it is assumed that an electronic timing is more than a quarter second more accurate?

4.46 becomes 4.74???? Come on.


I realize it isn't your conversion, Trogdor, I'm just making an open-minded observation.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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Some years back there was a prospect out of Kansas that put up better combine numbers than Shawn Merriman. I can't remember the exact numbers or his height/weight, but his name was David McMillan. The Browns took him in the 5th round and he was a complete turd.

I was fresh out of high school then and didn't have much experience with the draft and David McMillan was the prospect that taught me athletic numbers are not even half of what makes a great player.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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Didn't Cameron Wake put up ungodly numbers?
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
This is why guys trust their own hand-held times.

We've seen video evidence where electronic times were straight-up WRONG. Yet it is assumed that an electronic timing is more than a quarter second more accurate?

4.46 becomes 4.74???? Come on.


I realize it isn't your conversion, Trogdor, I'm just making an open-minded observation.
Well for what it's worth every major track and field body uses electronic timing as do speed sticks and anything else you need to hold up in court. Electronic times have gotten a lot more accurate since their inception but you cannot cast doubt on electronic times without casting a bigger shadow on hand timings.

As I said you can't compare combine numbers which are the "official" with pro-day numbers due to electronic versus hand-timed. Numerous times a prospect goes from being a "legit" 4.3 guy on grass guy runs a 4.5 on the super track at the combine.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post
Well for what it's worth every major track and field body uses electronic timing as do speed sticks and anything else you need to hold up in court. Electronic times have gotten a lot more accurate since their inception but you cannot cast doubt on electronic times without casting a bigger shadow on hand timings.

As I said you can't compare combine numbers which are the "official" with pro-day numbers due to electronic versus hand-timed. Numerous times a prospect goes from being a "legit" 4.3 guy on grass guy runs a 4.5 on the super track at the combine.
Electronic times are still started by humans.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Trogdor View Post
Well for what it's worth every major track and field body uses electronic timing as do speed sticks and anything else you need to hold up in court. Electronic times have gotten a lot more accurate since their inception but you cannot cast doubt on electronic times without casting a bigger shadow on hand timings.

As I said you can't compare combine numbers which are the "official" with pro-day numbers due to electronic versus hand-timed. Numerous times a prospect goes from being a "legit" 4.3 guy on grass guy runs a 4.5 on the super track at the combine.
I don't disagree. However, the issue with hand-times are inconsistency. If inconsistent, we shouldn't be able to assume that the conversion should always be .24+ added. That's all I'm saying.

Hand-timed A) 4.46 = 4.74
Hand-timed B) 4.57 = 4.84
"Official" Electronic time = 4.64

Happens alot, one could assume.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Careful with using electronic times versus watch times. Most of the older guys being mentioned had the luxury of being timed on a stopwatch. For hand-times round up to the nearest tenth then add 0.24.
That's generally more useful for track which uses fully automatic timing. NFL use partially-automatic so that .24 reaction time add-on isn't accurate.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Pretty relevant, at spring practice Jadeveon Clowney weighed in at ~270 lbs. and ran a 4.5 40.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Some years back there was a prospect out of Kansas that put up better combine numbers than Shawn Merriman. I can't remember the exact numbers or his height/weight, but his name was David McMillan. The Browns took him in the 5th round and he was a complete turd.

I was fresh out of high school then and didn't have much experience with the draft and David McMillan was the prospect that taught me athletic numbers are not even half of what makes a great player.
David was a college teammate of mine, 6'3"/262#, ran 4.58 at the combine. In his defense he was a 'tweener in the NFL and would've needed to have added 20 pounds or so to play DE.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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No, he's very accurate about Watt. I remember looking at Watt's numbers and thinking they were almost something unhuman. He ran in the 4.7-4.8 range and had the best 3-cone and shuttle times of all linemen. He was a freak in all regards, and it shows in the NFL. I hate to think his athleticism was underrated because he's white.
Eric Decker & Peyton Hillis hate to think so too.

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Old 03-10-2013, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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Combine numbers aside, nobody could move like Peppers at that size.
Since it was so long ago, probly a lot of people here aren't aware that he played, and played well, for the Tar Heels... basketball team.
The best program and conference in the country at that time, and there he was.
He was special.

And a great player in the NFL even if not "legendary" like some expected.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Peppers was a STARTER for the Tar Heels Basketball team, not some rotational guy off the bench.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Peppers was a STARTER for the Tar Heels Basketball team, not some rotational guy off the bench.
What was Matt Jones? I didn't pay much attn to Arkansas bball during his time there (or ever really).
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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What was Matt Jones? I didn't pay much attn to Arkansas bball during his time there (or ever really).
I don't remember Jones on the Razorbacks B-Ball team, but his wiki page confirms that he was. So does youtube.



It's too bad Matt Jones couldn't keep it together. He really was an incredible athlete.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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uhhh... Courtney Brown? Thanks. Have a nice day.

There's also Mamula.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, Peppers was a STARTER for the Tar Heels Basketball team, not some rotational guy off the bench.
I remember some of his dunks that year. Dude was scary.

He started on that team, and that team was #1 in the country at 1 point during that year.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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I hate to think his athleticism was underrated because he's white.
But that's exactly what happened. It happens every year. People said Kuechly would run a 4.8 and Burfict would run a 4.5. Kerrigan was not considered an athletic player despite his good numbers at the Combine. White receivers are slot receivers and the next Wes Welker. That's how it goes. J.J. Watt could have been a top 5 pick if he were not a big, white dude being labeled as the next Adam Carriker.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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But that's exactly what happened. It happens every year. People said Kuechly would run a 4.8 and Burfict would run a 4.5. Kerrigan was not considered an athletic player despite his good numbers at the Combine. White receivers are slot receivers and the next Wes Welker. That's how it goes. J.J. Watt could have been a top 5 pick if he were not a big, white dude being labeled as the next Adam Carriker.
Then again the last time they gave credit to a white WR being athletic and possible playmaker, his name was Matt Jones....and we all know how that went...jeez...
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Ronald Curry to Julius Peppers.

It's so strange to see an NFL lineman in basketball gear. He's just so ******* huge.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:42 AM    (permalink
BallerT1215
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Yup thats how i remember him @ unc basketball
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:06 PM    (permalink
hockey619
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
I hate to think his athleticism was underrated because he's white.
someone made a thread (or posted in one i cant remember) asking this exact question before that draft. He compared Watts numbers and triangle numbers to Mario and they were pretty damn close. I'm not sure why Watt wasnt taken a little higher, need maybe? i dont feel like looking it up he still went 11th not like he fell to the 5th round.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
prock
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I was like 11 when Peppers got drafted. I remember watching that draft and seeing Peppers get taken #2 and was like "wait, you mean the basketball player Peppers???"
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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