Biggest Freak DE Prospect in the Last Couple Decades?

[MI_Buckeye]

Originally Posted by TitanHope

I forget how well Watt did, but he's certainly a monster physically and his strength is worth accolade. Apart from that, I hope you're not letting his NFL success dictate your view. Watt had great tape, and if he put on a combine performance that rivals the best going back decades, then he's a Top 3 pick. Instead, he went 11th. Perhaps I'm just misremembering, but I'd choose Pep between the two.

No, he's very accurate about Watt. I remember looking at Watt's numbers and thinking they were almost something unhuman. He ran in the 4.7-4.8 range and had the best 3-cone and shuttle times of all linemen. He was a freak in all regards, and it shows in the NFL. I hate to think his athleticism was underrated because he's white.

[SAGA45]

Where will this guy this rank amongst Peppers & Co?:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm5WIXPSPiU
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAO7m1IfoDQ
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W26Dcns1Mxg

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

That's great and Ware is a great choice; however, the question pretained to players when they were draft prospects, not after they were NFL players.

But I do have question for everyone. I wonder how Bruce Smith's numbers and measurables coming out stack up to those of the freaks of the last couple decades?

Bruce Smith was a 300+# DT prospect when he was drafted 1/1 out of Va Tech. He got himself into elite condition in Buffalo, dropped about 35# and transformed into a HOFer.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Careful with using electronic times versus watch times. Most of the older guys being mentioned had the luxury of being timed on a stopwatch. For hand-times round up to the nearest tenth then add 0.24.

This is why guys trust their own hand-held times.

We've seen video evidence where electronic times were straight-up WRONG. Yet it is assumed that an electronic timing is more than a quarter second more accurate?

4.46 becomes 4.74???? Come on.


I realize it isn't your conversion, Trogdor, I'm just making an open-minded observation.

[CrossOfDeath]

Some years back there was a prospect out of Kansas that put up better combine numbers than Shawn Merriman. I can't remember the exact numbers or his height/weight, but his name was David McMillan. The Browns took him in the 5th round and he was a complete turd.

I was fresh out of high school then and didn't have much experience with the draft and David McMillan was the prospect that taught me athletic numbers are not even half of what makes a great player.

[Black Bolt]

Didn't Cameron Wake put up ungodly numbers?

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by phlysac

This is why guys trust their own hand-held times.

We've seen video evidence where electronic times were straight-up WRONG. Yet it is assumed that an electronic timing is more than a quarter second more accurate?

4.46 becomes 4.74???? Come on.


I realize it isn't your conversion, Trogdor, I'm just making an open-minded observation.

Well for what it's worth every major track and field body uses electronic timing as do speed sticks and anything else you need to hold up in court. Electronic times have gotten a lot more accurate since their inception but you cannot cast doubt on electronic times without casting a bigger shadow on hand timings.

As I said you can't compare combine numbers which are the "official" with pro-day numbers due to electronic versus hand-timed. Numerous times a prospect goes from being a "legit" 4.3 guy on grass guy runs a 4.5 on the super track at the combine.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Well for what it's worth every major track and field body uses electronic timing as do speed sticks and anything else you need to hold up in court. Electronic times have gotten a lot more accurate since their inception but you cannot cast doubt on electronic times without casting a bigger shadow on hand timings.

As I said you can't compare combine numbers which are the "official" with pro-day numbers due to electronic versus hand-timed. Numerous times a prospect goes from being a "legit" 4.3 guy on grass guy runs a 4.5 on the super track at the combine.

Electronic times are still started by humans.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Well for what it's worth every major track and field body uses electronic timing as do speed sticks and anything else you need to hold up in court. Electronic times have gotten a lot more accurate since their inception but you cannot cast doubt on electronic times without casting a bigger shadow on hand timings.

As I said you can't compare combine numbers which are the "official" with pro-day numbers due to electronic versus hand-timed. Numerous times a prospect goes from being a "legit" 4.3 guy on grass guy runs a 4.5 on the super track at the combine.

I don't disagree. However, the issue with hand-times are inconsistency. If inconsistent, we shouldn't be able to assume that the conversion should always be .24+ added. That's all I'm saying.

Hand-timed A) 4.46 = 4.74
Hand-timed B) 4.57 = 4.84
"Official" Electronic time = 4.64

Happens alot, one could assume.

[JhawkFitness]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Careful with using electronic times versus watch times. Most of the older guys being mentioned had the luxury of being timed on a stopwatch. For hand-times round up to the nearest tenth then add 0.24.

That's generally more useful for track which uses fully automatic timing. NFL use partially-automatic so that .24 reaction time add-on isn't accurate.

[Cigaro]

Pretty relevant, at spring practice Jadeveon Clowney weighed in at ~270 lbs. and ran a 4.5 40.

[JhawkFitness]

Originally Posted by CrossOfDeath

Some years back there was a prospect out of Kansas that put up better combine numbers than Shawn Merriman. I can't remember the exact numbers or his height/weight, but his name was David McMillan. The Browns took him in the 5th round and he was a complete turd.

I was fresh out of high school then and didn't have much experience with the draft and David McMillan was the prospect that taught me athletic numbers are not even half of what makes a great player.

David was a college teammate of mine, 6'3"/262#, ran 4.58 at the combine. In his defense he was a 'tweener in the NFL and would've needed to have added 20 pounds or so to play DE.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye

No, he's very accurate about Watt. I remember looking at Watt's numbers and thinking they were almost something unhuman. He ran in the 4.7-4.8 range and had the best 3-cone and shuttle times of all linemen. He was a freak in all regards, and it shows in the NFL. I hate to think his athleticism was underrated because he's white.

Eric Decker & Peyton Hillis hate to think so too.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by bhaarat316

Combine numbers aside, nobody could move like Peppers at that size.

Since it was so long ago, probly a lot of people here aren't aware that he played, and played well, for the Tar Heels... basketball team.
The best program and conference in the country at that time, and there he was.
He was special.

And a great player in the NFL even if not "legendary" like some expected.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Yeah, Peppers was a STARTER for the Tar Heels Basketball team, not some rotational guy off the bench.

[JhawkFitness]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Yeah, Peppers was a STARTER for the Tar Heels Basketball team, not some rotational guy off the bench.

What was Matt Jones? I didn't pay much attn to Arkansas bball during his time there (or ever really).

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by JhawkFitness

What was Matt Jones? I didn't pay much attn to Arkansas bball during his time there (or ever really).

I don't remember Jones on the Razorbacks B-Ball team, but his wiki page confirms that he was. So does youtube.



It's too bad Matt Jones couldn't keep it together. He really was an incredible athlete.

[nepg]

uhhh... Courtney Brown? Thanks. Have a nice day.

There's also Mamula.

[BallerT1215]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Yeah, Peppers was a STARTER for the Tar Heels Basketball team, not some rotational guy off the bench.

I remember some of his dunks that year. Dude was scary.

He started on that team, and that team was #1 in the country at 1 point during that year.

[Roddoliver]

Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye

I hate to think his athleticism was underrated because he's white.

But that's exactly what happened. It happens every year. People said Kuechly would run a 4.8 and Burfict would run a 4.5. Kerrigan was not considered an athletic player despite his good numbers at the Combine. White receivers are slot receivers and the next Wes Welker. That's how it goes. J.J. Watt could have been a top 5 pick if he were not a big, white dude being labeled as the next Adam Carriker.

[BallerT1215]

Originally Posted by Roddoliver

But that's exactly what happened. It happens every year. People said Kuechly would run a 4.8 and Burfict would run a 4.5. Kerrigan was not considered an athletic player despite his good numbers at the Combine. White receivers are slot receivers and the next Wes Welker. That's how it goes. J.J. Watt could have been a top 5 pick if he were not a big, white dude being labeled as the next Adam Carriker.

Then again the last time they gave credit to a white WR being athletic and possible playmaker, his name was Matt Jones....and we all know how that went...jeez...

[nepg]

Ronald Curry to Julius Peppers.

It's so strange to see an NFL lineman in basketball gear. He's just so ******* huge.

[BallerT1215]

Yup thats how i remember him @ unc basketball

[hockey619]

Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye

I hate to think his athleticism was underrated because he's white.

someone made a thread (or posted in one i cant remember) asking this exact question before that draft. He compared Watts numbers and triangle numbers to Mario and they were pretty damn close. I'm not sure why Watt wasnt taken a little higher, need maybe? i dont feel like looking it up he still went 11th not like he fell to the 5th round.

[prock]

I was like 11 when Peppers got drafted. I remember watching that draft and seeing Peppers get taken #2 and was like "wait, you mean the basketball player Peppers???"