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Old 03-11-2013, 11:09 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
Jackson Jeffcoat is such a beast!
I now have character concerns for Geno. Performing surgery without the proper credentials is illegal.

Seriously, are some of you guys blind? When have you EVER seen Ponder, Locker or Gabbert throw the ball like Geno did against Texas? But these chaps were bonafide high first round picks by your (and by your I mean the draft experts) rankings?
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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I now have character concerns for Geno. Performing surgery without the proper credentials is illegal.

Seriously, are some of you guys blind? When have you EVER seen Ponder, Locker or Gabbert throw the ball like Geno did against Texas? But these chaps were bonafide high first round picks by your (and by your I mean the draft experts) rankings?
Ive seen Locker make some awesome throws in college, and he has shown flashes of that in the NFL. A guy from Texas Tech throw (not Harrel, there as a guy that had a stronger arm, I forget his name) like Geno just as well, and what system does WVU run? oh just a modified version of what Leach was running which makes sense being that Dana Holgerson worked under him.

Taylor Potts, when he was under Leach he looked much better, in 2009 he put up over 420 yards and 3 tds against Texas, 1 interception. He didn't look quite the same after the concussion though.

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Old 03-12-2013, 11:59 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Ive seen Locker make some awesome throws in college, and he has shown flashes of that in the NFL. A guy from Texas Tech throw (not Harrel, there as a guy that had a stronger arm, I forget his name) like Geno just as well, and what system does WVU run? oh just a modified version of what Leach was running which makes sense being that Dana Holgerson worked under him.

Taylor Potts, when he was under Leach he looked much better, in 2009 he put up over 420 yards and 3 tds against Texas, 1 interception. He didn't look quite the same after the concussion though.
After two years in the NFL, a QB picked where he was picked is supposed to be past the stage of showing flashes. How long did David Carr show flashes before people released that flashes was all you would see?
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Ive seen Locker make some awesome throws in college, and he has shown flashes of that in the NFL. A guy from Texas Tech throw (not Harrel, there as a guy that had a stronger arm, I forget his name) like Geno just as well, and what system does WVU run? oh just a modified version of what Leach was running which makes sense being that Dana Holgerson worked under him.

Taylor Potts, when he was under Leach he looked much better, in 2009 he put up over 420 yards and 3 tds against Texas, 1 interception. He didn't look quite the same after the concussion though.

Ah, Taylor Potts. I thought he really had a chance to break through in the pros.
The book on Locker who I still like but wonder if he's ever going to develop the way fans expect, was that he was this great QB held back by a bad Oline and inferior skill position talent at U Dub. If only Locker had talent around him, the narrative went, Locker would have put up 3800+ yards passing and 35 TDs.

Locker needs to show something this season IMO.
But the fact remains that Geno Smith coming out is a better pro prospect at QB than either Locker or Ponder.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Looking at Geno Smiths Stats in 1485 pass attempts he was sacked 79 times Landry Jones was only sacked 54 times in 2183 attempts so why is that.. Geno is faster and should have thrown the ball away.. I think he just took the sack instead of risking an INT or lowering his completion percentage by throwing it away or risk looking bad trying to get rid of the ball and get Landry's reputation for not dealing with pressure.. OU line wasnt that much better.. WV run game did well and he often threw it to Austin.. Geno is good but he doesnt deserve the #1 rank.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Ah, Taylor Potts. I thought he really had a chance to break through in the pros.
The book on Locker who I still like but wonder if he's ever going to develop the way fans expect, was that he was this great QB held back by a bad Oline and inferior skill position talent at U Dub. If only Locker had talent around him, the narrative went, Locker would have put up 3800+ yards passing and 35 TDs.

Locker needs to show something this season IMO.
But the fact remains that Geno Smith coming out is a better pro prospect at QB than either Locker or Ponder.
I actually thought Potts had a chance to be successful as well.

No question Smith is a better prospect. The difference is a lack of hype surrounding Smith, for whatever reason.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Looking at Geno Smiths Stats in 1485 pass attempts he was sacked 79 times Landry Jones was only sacked 54 times in 2183 attempts so why is that.. Geno is faster and should have thrown the ball away.. I think he just took the sack instead of risking an INT or lowering his completion percentage by throwing it away or risk looking bad trying to get rid of the ball and get Landry's reputation for not dealing with pressure.. OU line wasnt that much better.. WV run game did well and he often threw it to Austin.. Geno is good but he doesnt deserve the #1 rank.

WVU's run game??lol What's that??
OU's line wasn't much better than WVU's??
I think everyone has acknowledged Smith didn't scramble for the Mountaineers when it was his best option to do so, and we get that he's going to have to use his legs in the NFL to escape negative plays.

But that has nothing to do with Landry Jones not handling pressure or who has more sacks.

If you blitzed Landry at OU and his first option isn't open, more often than not Landry Jones isn't going to make that play. That's handling pressure.

Even when the pass rush got to Geno and caged him in to where he couldn't run if he wanted to, he still didn't throw ill advised picks or fumble the ball a ton.
But the real difference is Geno Smith could complete passes against heavy defensive pressure. Landry Jones struggled to do this throughout his career.

Geno CHOSE not to run in college. Once he gets to the pros I hope he changes that mentality.

BTW, is this entire thread an argument that Landry Jones should be the top QB prospect in this draft over Geno Smith????
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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BTW, is this entire thread an argument that Landry Jones should be the top QB prospect in this draft over Geno Smith????
No no no, silly boy, he's only asking if Landry Jones could possibly be a little undervalued, that's all.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Andy Reid is a great at developing QB's. And Smith is a hell of a lot better than Kevin Kolb who Reid picked in the past. I 100% agree hes better than kolb, but thats hardly a compliment haha Obviously, Reid did not want to deal with a rookie QB at the helm, he wanted to be on a faster track with this new team. There's your answer.
so andy was thinking short term and not long term future of the team? Im really supposed to buy that horse****? gtfo come on dude really?

andy passed on geno because he doesnt buy him as a future franchise QB. thats all there is to it.



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I now have character concerns for Geno. Performing surgery without the proper credentials is illegal.

Seriously, are some of you guys blind? When have you EVER seen Ponder, Locker or Gabbert throw the ball like Geno did against Texas? But these chaps were bonafide high first round picks by your (and by your I mean the draft experts) rankings?
to see what im talking about watch the first couple of throws for Geno vs Oklahoma. He throws late downfield and is almost picked, then throws an absolutely atrocious INT, the second worst Ive seen by a highly regarded prospect (Blaine Gabbert threw one at Mizzou that was the worst after he scrambled from phantom pressure)

Then he throws a great back shoulder ball to a well covered guy...two plays later he stares down an out route in a one read play yet again, this time he gets away with the staring.


Like ive said, he can make good throws, but he is so so so far from being where he needs to be mentally that there is no justification for taking him high imo. He has so much to learn and very little if any foundation to his mental game. Hes a good developmental prospect because of his tools. not a first round guy.



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I don't get it, I don't see happy feet as a problem for Smith, I wish he was aware enough to panic a bit but he seems oblivious to the pass rush around him even when he is about to be hit and that is what raises red flags for me.
He looks to me to be waiting to throw the perfect pass and just doesn't sense the urgency of getting the throw away before it is too late.

If he plays like that in the NFL he'll be a sitting duck for the pass rush, a QB has to know when he is in trouble and try to make something out of nothing, Smith just stands there till he's hit.
i kept saying happy feet my bad, let me try to explain what im seeing a bit better: he fades backwards in the pocket more often than just an occasional thing, its a bad habit. He does side step inside pressure but he has doesnt have a great feel for the pocket, I agree. Sometimes he does, but it definitely is inconsistent leaning toward the negative.

a lot of guys are talking like hes a superstar prospect but I dont see it at all, he has so many holes that others refuse to acknowledge its mindboggling.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Andy Reid most probably doesn't want Geno because Reid is getting old and doesn't want to spend the time to develop a rookie QB when he feels he has a roster than can win right now.

'very little if any foundation to his mental game'?? Please explain.
You made this critique more than once.
Any QB who only throws 6 INTs on over 500 attempts and completes 7 out of every 10 passes he throws is processing the game correctly on some level.

Whenever I hear a generic critique of a QB's mental game, all I hear is someone saying they believe a prospect is mentally deficient.

And come on, every QB who's played in college has thrown an ill advised INT.
Even Luck had the rare INT at Stanford where you wonder where his head was at when he threw the football.
If Geno's early INT against OU was one of the worst you've ever seen by a top ranked QB prospect, you might want to watch more games on Saturday.

Who on this board said Geno Smith is a superstar prospect??
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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so andy was thinking short term and not long term future of the team? Im really supposed to buy that horse****? gtfo come on dude really?

andy passed on geno because he doesnt buy him as a future franchise QB. thats all there is to it.





to see what im talking about watch the first couple of throws for Geno vs Oklahoma. He throws late downfield and is almost picked, then throws an absolutely atrocious INT, the second worst Ive seen by a highly regarded prospect (Blaine Gabbert threw one at Mizzou that was the worst after he scrambled from phantom pressure)

Then he throws a great back shoulder ball to a well covered guy...two plays later he stares down an out route in a one read play yet again, this time he gets away with the staring.


Like ive said, he can make good throws, but he is so so so far from being where he needs to be mentally that there is no justification for taking him high imo. He has so much to learn and very little if any foundation to his mental game. Hes a good developmental prospect because of his tools. not a first round guy.

Yeah, that's exactly what I am saying. Andy Reid has made the assessment that with the proper moves and his coaching, he can win sooner rather than later, and that means a capable vet QB. I don't have sell you common sense, do I? You can believe that he is down on Smith If you choose to, which is quite obvious.


i kept saying happy feet my bad, let me try to explain what im seeing a bit better: he fades backwards in the pocket more often than just an occasional thing, its a bad habit. He does side step inside pressure but he has doesnt have a great feel for the pocket, I agree. Sometimes he does, but it definitely is inconsistent leaning toward the negative.

a lot of guys are talking like hes a superstar prospect but I dont see it at all, he has so many holes that others refuse to acknowledge its mindboggling.
As far as that worse INT by top QB nonsense, a) regardless, it's exactly one INT and b) if you truly believe that, then you've probably watched as much football as my mother in Bermuda has.

Look, I can't take you seriously any longer. I have been watching football for 30 years and there is little you can tell me based on your lack of knowledge. You really don't know what you are talking about and I am okay with that. You are cherry picking your overall assessment of Smith, completely ignoring a plethora of top level plays in the clip. That's your bias, and you can have it.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Ah, Taylor Potts. I thought he really had a chance to break through in the pros.
The book on Locker who I still like but wonder if he's ever going to develop the way fans expect, was that he was this great QB held back by a bad Oline and inferior skill position talent at U Dub. If only Locker had talent around him, the narrative went, Locker would have put up 3800+ yards passing and 35 TDs.

Locker needs to show something this season IMO.
But the fact remains that Geno Smith coming out is a better pro prospect at QB than either Locker or Ponder.
The book on Locker was that if people had watched enough of him at UW, they would have realized how awful he was. I'm here in Bellingham (near Ferndale, where he went to HS and is a god) and I have to see his terrible furniture commercial all the time come football season. I remember my friend that used to go to UW and I had quite the laugh when we saw how high the Titans took him.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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David Carr never showed the flashes that Locker has, dude got sacked like almost 100 times his first year in the league, and he wasn't close to the same runner as Jake either. He could run, just not as close to the level as locker. How can I take you seriously when you think his ceiling is Carr and Ponder's is Johnson, and btw, Johnson wasn't that bad of a qb, he struggled in the playoffs but he had some good seasons, I remember him throwing for 4k when that wasn't a common thing, then being replaced by Tony Banks after going 10-6 the year before and had a winning record the 2nd season as well. Hed have a good season then struggle with injuries and then replaced only to wind up winning the Superbowl, and despite his post season struggles, he was miles above Dilfer on the Bucs and the other qbs like Shaun King, he was a big upgrade in that offense. He has a winning record, 72 wins 53 losses 166 tds to 122 ints, 2 time pro bowler back when fans didn't vote. I think he was the only player to complete a pass to himself for a td.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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The following Jaguars representatives are in Morgantown tonight and will attend Geno's pro day:

Shad Khan - Owner
Tony Khan - Head of Analytics
Gus Bradley - HC
Jedd Fisch - OC
Terry McDonough - Director of Player Personnel
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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The following Jaguars representatives are in Morgantown tonight and will attend Geno's pro day:

Shad Khan - Owner
Tony Khan - Head of Analytics
Gus Bradley - HC
Jedd Fisch - OC
Terry McDonough - Director of Player Personnel
The owner, the SON of the owner, the Head coach and offensive coordinator are all in WVA to watch Geno work out???

LOL. Hilarious.

Not what I would call a ringing endorsement from management for Gabby.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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I think I saw somewhere that most of the Eagles staff is in attendance too. it was probably here that I heard that.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sbh15 View Post
I think I saw somewhere that most of the Eagles staff is in attendance too. it was probably here that I heard that.
I think Caplan (reliable reporter) said it on Twitter. Eagles and Jags representatives everywhere.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
WCH
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
The owner, the SON of the owner, the Head coach and offensive coordinator are all in WVA to watch Geno work out???

LOL. Hilarious.

Not what I would call a ringing endorsement from management for Gabby.
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I think I saw somewhere that most of the Eagles staff is in attendance too. it was probably here that I heard that.
That #1 pick might have some trade value afterall.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Hilarious how people are all over his nuts now. Absolutely hilarious.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
Monomach
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Geno's not worth the #1 pick, but he's totally worth #2, bros.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Geno's not worth the #1 pick, but he's totally worth #2, bros.
The Draft is so stupid.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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Geno's not worth the #1 pick, but he's totally worth #2, bros.
I literally just said that on twitter. No way can he go #1, but #2 is totes an acceptable place for him to go.

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The Draft is so stupid.
The draft is fine, people are stupid.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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After watching Smith's videos, I think he has issues with footwork and progressions. Many times he does not step into the throw or does not set his feet, and then the throw is all arm and less accurate. And he is locked in on his first read. Things get ugly when he has to go through progressions or improvise.
I have peeked into a Chiefs board to see predictable Alex Smith irrational posts.
What I didn't expect was all the Geno Smith iconography.

I went and looked at big board ranking around the net. Avg seems to be 15th best guy in the draft.

For the first time I watched a couple videos. I think I would be on the back side of 15th best.

Looks like almost every throw that isn't a screen has a double-action decision before the trigger is pulled.
For a senior who had passed nearly 1000 times before this year and with all the spacing and loads of pocket time, certainly beyond the NFL, this is a big worry.

I mean sometimes it looks like a video game where you forget where the button is for the open WR so you have to look down to find it before pressing it.

K-State had a decent rush and did zone coverage and WV could do diddly poo offensively.

Also seems like a lot of passes are high.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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He's not good enough to be a top-7 pick, but if he falls to 9 you'd have to get the idea that there's something really wrong with him. So, you know, I'll take him.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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David Carr never showed the flashes that Locker has, dude got sacked like almost 100 times his first year in the league, and he wasn't close to the same runner as Jake either. He could run, just not as close to the level as locker. How can I take you seriously when you think his ceiling is Carr and Ponder's is Johnson, and btw, Johnson wasn't that bad of a qb, he struggled in the playoffs but he had some good seasons, I remember him throwing for 4k when that wasn't a common thing, then being replaced by Tony Banks after going 10-6 the year before and had a winning record the 2nd season as well. Hed have a good season then struggle with injuries and then replaced only to wind up winning the Superbowl, and despite his post season struggles, he was miles above Dilfer on the Bucs and the other qbs like Shaun King, he was a big upgrade in that offense. He has a winning record, 72 wins 53 losses 166 tds to 122 ints, 2 time pro bowler back when fans didn't vote. I think he was the only player to complete a pass to himself for a td.
Like i said, his ceiling is Brad Johnson. If you are making a case that Johnson's career was okay, then I would agree with you. Now where was Brad Johnson drafted again? I rest my case. When you are drafted in the top 15, you are expected to be more than Brad Johnson, which was my original point.

David Carr was the concensus #1 pick going into his final year. The entire time Carr was in Houston, everyone in the media was convinced that nothing was his fault because of his line. Well, that simply was not the case. Although the line was not good, the lack of protection exposed Carr's weaknesses- poise and decision making. I said that Locker's ceiling is Carr's because of his limitations with accuracy, happy feet and decision making. We will see, but so far, he's now what you guys have been claiming he is.
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