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Old 03-18-2013, 04:30 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow View Post
I don't see why people have an issue with his arm strength. It's really not that bad at all. He made some great throws deep downfield to Cooper. Sure, he doesn't have a gun, but that's also something he can improve. It's much easier trying to improve your arm strength (as long as you do it right and don't just focus on bulking up, a la Brady Quinn) than it is accuracy. He might not be a Day 1 starter, but he has the qualities to very easily make him a franchise QB.
I have never seen someone improve their arm strength in college. Arm strength largely something you either have or you don't. Hell, Mark Bulger had a strong arm and he was as frail as any NFL QB I have ever seen. Tom Brady's arm is very strong for his build. Doug Flutie and Michael Vick's arm strength was flat out freaky and they were midgets by NFL QB standards.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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I have never seen someone improve their arm strength in college. Arm strength largely something you either have or you don't. Hell, Mark Bulger had a strong arm and he was as frail as any NFL QB I have ever seen. Tom Brady's arm is very strong for his build. Doug Flutie and Michael Vick's arm strength was flat out freaky and they were midgets by NFL QB standards.
It's funny you mention Brady because he's someone who has actually improved his arm strength over time. Aaron Rodgers is another and even Andy Dalton has made strides. It's not a quick process, but he can make it happen. Again, it's much easier doing this than trying to become accurate, which he definitely already is.

Also, tj, don't forget about Murray. With another season under his belt, he might be able to really progress. He has the tools.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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There's more to throwing a deep ball than just throwing it far. I don't think that was anybody's assertion. McCarron's deep ball has perfect trajectory and velocity... which makes it accurate.

His ball placement on medium range throws is impeccable. His ball placement is how Bama took advantage of the Honey Badger in the title game.

Watch him throw those quick slants to Kevin Norwood where the receiver literally keeps running as if it was a long handoff.

Make no mistake, this kid can spin the football.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Yep. McCarron has a better arm than people think. The velocity is there on all the throws. Great deep ball. His instincts are there. I see so much Matt Ryan in this kid.

His mechanics are great as well.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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Yep. McCarron has a better arm than people think. The velocity is there on all the throws. Great deep ball. His instincts are there. [BI see so much Matt Ryan in this kid.[/b]

His mechanics are great as well.
Exactly. There was nothing physically impressive about Matt Ryan at BC either.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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I feel the same way. Its not that he has done anything wrong, but I feel like with that team and that talent he just needs to not **** up most of the time to win. He is part of the offense instead of the driving force.
I agree with this, except when a Nick Saban QB playing in a run heavy offense throws for 30 TDs and 3 INTs, he's doing more than not screwing up.
He's making things happen.

Saban's offenses really don't ask or require his QBs to throw for more than 22-24 TDs in a season. That's all on McCarron just making plays.


You see a guy in McCarron who plays well under pressure, which is to win every game Alabama plays when they step onto the field. Having a bullseye on your chest and answering the call in nearly every game is impressive, although it wasn't all on McCarron.
Still when your QB only has 3 turnovers passing, that plays a huge role in the final outcome.
30 TDs means McCarron is aggressive downfield with the football.
72% completion rate tells me more often than not McCarron is making the right decisions when he throws.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. There was nothing physically impressive about Matt Ryan at BC either.
Yep. So many people drool over physical tools of QBs. 90% is intangibles from the neck up. Look at the top 5 QBs in the NFL.

-Brady
-Rodgers
-Peyton Manning
-Drew Brees
-Eli Manning

When it comes to arm strength, none of them have cannons like Elway, Cutler, etc. It's their intangibles, accuracy, decision making, and field vision. Reading defenses and going through progressions.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Well here's a thread I thought I'd never find on this board lol. Man MassNole might go into cardiac arrest if A.J. goes round 1 next year since he sure was hating during the season. I'll revisit this in the fall. Oh and he might have some room to grow since he is max squatting at 600 pounds now.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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I'm not jumping on the bandwagon just yet. I suspect he is nothing more than a game manager who looks a lot better because he played behind one of the greatest college OL's of all time with 3 sure fire 1st rounders and 2 second round talents. He was clean in the pocket for as long as he wanted and rarely got touched when looking for a receiver.

I need to see a lot more of him before I'll give him a round 1 rating.

But I'm keeping an open mind because he appears to be special but I may have to wait till the post season next year when he has to play with equal talent same as other QB prospects, before I give him my blessings.

IMO, it is a very similar situation as Lacy finds himself in. Lacy may be a great RB but it is a hard case to tell since he hasn't worked out in the post season and had that same OL open up gaping holes for him to run through. I love what I've seen of Lacy but is it the OL or Lacy's own greatness, we probably won't know till he starts his 1st game as a pro.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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Luck played behind a stud Oline at Stanford too.
I think McCarron is worth a much closer look in 2013.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Luck played behind a stud Oline at Stanford too.
I think McCarron is worth a much closer look in 2013.
It was good but I don't think it compares to Alabama's.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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Luck played behind a stud Oline at Stanford too.
I think McCarron is worth a much closer look in 2013.
3 OL will be drafted in the 1st round from that OL Flucker, Warmack and Kouandjio. Plus Barrett Jones should go in the 2nd or 3rd round. Anthony Steen should also be a 2nd or 3rd Round Pick.

Stanford OL is not even comparable. They had David DeCastro and Jonathan Martin and that is pretty much it.

I would not touch McCarron till Terry Bridgwater, Tajh Boyd, Johnny Menziel are off the board. Maybe even Logan Thomas(depending on if he actually improves this year) and David Fales.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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Exactly. There was nothing physically impressive about Matt Ryan at BC either.
You are right, Matt Ryan was just above the baseline level physically, but his intangibles were off the scale. And the talent he played with was the polar oppostive of McCarron. The cuboard was BARE as BC. Ryan completely and totally CARRIED his team whereas McCarron was largely carried by his team.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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3 OL will be drafted in the 1st round from that OL Flucker, Warmack and Kouandjio. Plus Barrett Jones should go in the 2nd or 3rd round. Anthony Steen should also be a 2nd or 3rd Round Pick.

Stanford OL is not even comparable. They had David DeCastro and Jonathan Martin and that is pretty much it.

I would not touch McCarron till Terry Bridgwater, Tajh Boyd, Johnny Menziel are off the board. Maybe even Logan Thomas(depending on if he actually improves this year) and David Fales.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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You are right, Matt Ryan was just above the baseline level physically, but his intangibles were off the scale. And the talent he played with was the polar oppostive of McCarron. The cuboard was BARE as BC. Ryan completely and totally CARRIED his team whereas McCarron was largely carried by his team.

Agree that Matt Ryan and AJ McCarron excelled in totally different circumstances which is why it's hard to evaluate what level of pro prospect McCarron actually is.

When I point out that Luck played behind an elite Oline at Stanford, I'm judging them on how they performed against college competition, not which lineman have the most pro upside.

By college standards, the Stanford oline Luck played behind was elite.

When you look at the career of the U.'s Ken Dorsey, the poster boy for a QB whose abilities were inflated playing on a dominant college powerhouse, McCarron is by far more accurate and has a much stronger arm.
Even throwing the football to Santana Moss/Andre Johnson/Reggie Wayne/Jeremy Shockey, Dorsey never had 30 TD passes in a season. Or only 3 INTs.

Suppose McCarron duplicates his 2012 performance in 2013, does he still have upside?? I dunno.

Can he be a good starting NFL QB?? Maybe.
I think Saban puts more games in the hands of McCarron next season, so hopefully we get a better idea of what he can do when he's the main focal point of the offense.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Agree that Matt Ryan and AJ McCarron excelled in totally different circumstances which is why it's hard to evaluate what level of pro prospect McCarron actually is.

When I point out that Luck played behind an elite Oline at Stanford, I'm judging them on how they performed against college competition, not which lineman have the most pro upside.

By college standards, the Stanford oline Luck played behind was elite.

When you look at the career of the U.'s Ken Dorsey, the poster boy for a QB whose abilities were inflated playing on a dominant college powerhouse, McCarron is by far more accurate and has a much stronger arm.
Even throwing the football to Santana Moss/Andre Johnson/Reggie Wayne/Jeremy Shockey, Dorsey never had 30 TD passes in a season. Or only 3 INTs.

Suppose McCarron duplicates his 2012 performance in 2013, does he still have upside?? I dunno.

Can he be a good starting NFL QB?? Maybe.
I think Saban puts more games in the hands of McCarron next season, so hopefully we get a better idea of what he can do when he's the main focal point of the offense.
I agree with you about Stanford's line; however, bamas was a more punishing line with punishing backs running behind them. But as a result, I'm sure you will agree that Luck was asked to do more in his offense than McCarron.

McCarron is much better than Dorsey. As a talented as Miami was, they were lucky to overcome Dorsey's lack of arms strength which could well have been below the level of the average high school QB. I also believe he is better than care takers Josh Heupel and Greg McElroy.

My thought is that he is good enough to get on the field and start for someone, someday. However, I think a team will be hard pressed to completely settle on him because he will likely never quite look the part on the field and thus will have to fight off attempts to be replaced.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Put on the Texas A&M tape then you will think different. McCarron had the advantage of playing behind one of the best OL the last couple years and had a strong running game and defense to lean on. McCarron to me looks like another average QB surrounded by elite talent.
McCarron was playing tight when Bama played A&M. He had that stupid streak going where he was approaching the NCAA record for most consecutive passes without an INT and it was getting to him... you could tell.

He had been playing tight for weeks as the streak continued and the pressure of it mounted. He was trying to be too perfect. After he finally threw that first pick against A&M to end the streak, he loosened up and starting turning it loose again.

The pick at the end of the game along the goalline was a situation where Alabama should've just ran the ball to begin with to score the winning TD.

Norwood was the guy we go to in that situation, and he was out hurt for that play. We tried to run a concept with a new group of receivers and they screwed up the spacing in the concept which lead to the INT.

This was a situation of the new OC who's spent his entire career out on the west coast playing finesse football not understanding how we do things in the SEC in that situation. He tried the same crap against UGA in the SEC championship game and it resulted in another INT.

Saban made sure Nussmeier understood that this is the SEC title game, and the difference in how we do things around here at halftime of that game.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Default AJ is a first round pick

With his body of work alone he is a first round pick. The size and NFL brain seams to be there as well. He is accurate, but having golden offensive lines may mask his decision making. I dont know if he has an NFL arm, but if he keeps on winning no team will pass on him in round 1
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nodakdraftnut View Post
With his body of work alone he is a first round pick. The size and NFL brain seams to be there as well. He is accurate, but having golden offensive lines may mask his decision making. I dont know if he has an NFL arm, but if he keeps on winning no team will pass on him in round 1
Danny Wuerffel?
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