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Old 03-20-2013, 10:41 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Would this be a penalty with the new rule? The problem is that it's too hard to tell especially at game speed.

SADLY, it would/should.
Forte & Emmitt & Dickerson are right though, this is fuckedupstupid.
All lawsuit-driven.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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Trent says this is all his fault

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...g_back_29.html
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
Yeah, except, like Cigaro said, they already said (based on viewing games) that it wouldn't be called much.

Which is far more objective than saying, "DUR REFS ARE LAME AND CAN'T SEE IN REAL TIME SPEED DESPITE BEING TRAINED TO DO SO AND DOING SO EVERY GAME ANYWAY"

****! How the hell will they be able to see if a WR has two feet in? GUYS THIS IS REAL TIME!
We know that refs can't see in real time. That's why they had to bring back instant replay. Sometimes, they inexplicably get calls wrong even with replay. So, yeah, herp dur derp, refs can't see in real time.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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would be interesting, if one of these new "safety rules" gets someone injured worse since they can't protect themselves, or cause they were following the rules. and then sues because they were not protecting the players lol
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
If it were up to me I'd put in an offensive face mask penalty too. Most stiff arms include grabbing and pulling on the face mask but it doesn't get called.
This. I feel like all most everything AD does could be banned he is just so violent. Not that I am advocating banning what he does.

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SADLY, it would/should.
Forte & Emmitt & Dickerson are right though, this is fuckedupstupid.
All lawsuit-driven.
The owners should protect themselves. It is ridiculous the players have the nerve to sue them.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Boise State sucks at defense unfortunately.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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And I'm all for fairness. If it's over called on defense, why shouldn't it be called (at all) on offense? Maybe it's because I played defense and love defense, but why should an offensive player be allowed to do something similar, but not nearly the same as the helmet-to-helmet rule? If it were up to me I'd put in an offensive face mask penalty too. Most stiff arms include grabbing and pulling on the face mask but it doesn't get called. Offensive PI isn't called nearly enough as Defensive PI. So on and so forth.
I say that we get rid of face masks.

Stiff arms are less violent than regular crap that happens during a hockey or basketball game. I'm all for better helmets and mouth guards to protect against concussions, and I certainly never want to see another Reggie Brown situation. I remember that like it was yesterday. I thought the guy was dead. But holy crap, guys...
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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In the end, they are putting another judgement penalty on the refs shoulders to decide what is right or wrong. It isn't even fair to the refs at this point.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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I say that we get rid of face masks.

Stiff arms are less violent than regular crap that happens during a hockey or basketball game. I'm all for better helmets and mouth guards to protect against concussions, and I certainly never want to see another Reggie Brown situation. I remember that like it was yesterday. I thought the guy was dead. But holy crap, guys...
I mean, if there's an alternative for face masks I'm okay with that.

Also, I'm not saying in any way shape or form we should ban stiff arming. I'm saying when a player stiff arms a defenders by grabbing his face mask and pulling on it that should be a penalty every single time. It's a double standard.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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Haha Trent might be right. They used this play as an example of why it's dangerous.




That certainly is using the crown of your helmet to deliver a hit to the defender.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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Maybe it is just me, but I feel like as these rules are slowly implemented for different positions that the NFL wants almost every player to get flagged at some point of his career to use in future lawsuits.

Let's take Adrian Peterson. Say he gets one of these penalties this year. If he sues the NFL due to concussions down the line, they can point to the penalty and say that he is partly negligent since they banned this dangerous practice and still chose to do it. The more types of "head" penalties, the shallower the pool becomes of players who can sue the NFL
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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I have no problem with that Trent Richardson run being a penalty. There is such a possibility for serious injuries there (neck injuries, concussions). If defensive players can barely touch offensive players, then runners shouldn't be allowed to use there helmets like battering rams.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Maybe it is just me, but I feel like as these rules are slowly implemented for different positions that the NFL wants almost every player to get flagged at some point of his career to use in future lawsuits.

Let's take Adrian Peterson. Say he gets one of these penalties this year. If he sues the NFL due to concussions down the line, they can point to the penalty and say that he is partly negligent since they banned this dangerous practice and still chose to do it. The more types of "head" penalties, the shallower the pool becomes of players who can sue the NFL
You have a point there. I think the NFL is surely protecting themselves for future instances down the line, if they occur.

But I think this is invalid. I mean, you know the risks you take with your body playing this physical sport. I think it was Aldon Smith who said he knows the risk down the line, but would that affect him now? He said know. He loves the game and it's a risk he's willing to take.

These players know the risks. If they continue to play, then they should not sue the NFL when they're warned.

Back on this rule: What happens when the RB lowers the shoulder? His head happens to come down as well. I think it was Emmitt Smith who said lowering the shoulder protects themselves from the hit.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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I have no problem with that Trent Richardson run being a penalty. There is such a possibility for serious injuries there (neck injuries, concussions). If defensive players can barely touch offensive players, then runners shouldn't be allowed to use there helmets like battering rams.
The problem is, Defensive players lead with their heads. That's the wrong way to tackle. When a RB lowers his shoulder, his head lowers too. The Defensive player making the tackle shouldnt be lowering there head as well.

There's a difference in launching at a WR going across the middle than coming up and making a hit or tackle lowering the shoulder.

It's like the fundamentals anymore are thrown out.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Owners are ******

Didnt know that was a word that didnt get bleeped.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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The problem is, Defensive players lead with their heads. That's the wrong way to tackle. When a RB lowers his shoulder, his head lowers too. The Defensive player making the tackle shouldnt be lowering there head as well.

There's a difference in launching at a WR going across the middle than coming up and making a hit or tackle lowering the shoulder.

It's like the fundamentals anymore are thrown out.
You can lower your shoulder without using your helmet as a weapon. I mean Typically when you are lowering your shoulder to break a tackle you aren't hitting them square in the chest with your pads. You are turning your shoulder and leading with it. When you use your helmet as a weapon you are aiming the crown of the helmet into the chest/head of your opponent.

I mean the Trent Richardson play would be the example of the call. That wasn't lowering his shoulder that was driving his helmet into his opponent's chest/head.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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The problem is, Defensive players lead with their heads. That's the wrong way to tackle. When a RB lowers his shoulder, his head lowers too. The Defensive player making the tackle shouldnt be lowering there head as well.

There's a difference in launching at a WR going across the middle than coming up and making a hit or tackle lowering the shoulder.

It's like the fundamentals anymore are thrown out.
But the offensive players are so protected. A defensive back could be running upright towards a player in the air. No jumping, launching, or anything like that. As the receiver comes down, his helmet hits the helmet of the DB. Penalty. That isn't dangerous or malicious. It's freaking gravity! If we are going to penalize defensive players like that, we have to penalize running backs for using their helmets as a weapon.

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You can lower your shoulder without using your helmet as a weapon. I mean Typically when you are lowering your shoulder to break a tackle you aren't hitting them square in the chest with your pads. You are turning your shoulder and leading with it. When you use your helmet as a weapon you are aiming the crown of the helmet into the chest/head of your opponent.

I mean the Trent Richardson play would be the example of the call. That wasn't lowering his shoulder that was driving his helmet into his opponent's chest/head.
Exactly right. You can get low without going head first into the pile. I would argue this helps running backs. I would imagine you can get more force and maintain more momentum by hitting with the shoulder pad than you do with itting with the top of your head.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Maybe it is just me, but I feel like as these rules are slowly implemented for different positions that the NFL wants almost every player to get flagged at some point of his career to use in future lawsuits.

Let's take Adrian Peterson. Say he gets one of these penalties this year. If he sues the NFL due to concussions down the line, they can point to the penalty and say that he is partly negligent since they banned this dangerous practice and still chose to do it. The more types of "head" penalties, the shallower the pool becomes of players who can sue the NFL
Even more than that are the players whom publicly announce they will ignore the rule. Matt Forte said he was calling his bank to set up a "lowering-the-boom" account to pay the fines.

I think the NFL is developing a stance of "the players don't truly care about their safety. They mock our attempts at providing a safer environment for their game."
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Use your damn shoulders people. When the NFL (tries to) outlaws a shoulder to the head, then complain. When someone says "use your head" they don't mean it literally.

Also, players like AP should benefit the most from this. It will make elite talents like him more valuable. In order to get a ground game going, teams will have to invest more into a running back (or offensive line) to generate the same level of running game.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Lets see how long it takes to go from crown to any part of helmey
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:40 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Use your damn shoulders people. When the NFL (tries to) outlaws a shoulder to the head, then complain. When someone says "use your head" they don't mean it literally.

Also, players like AP should benefit the most from this. It will make elite talents like him more valuable. In order to get a ground game going, teams will have to invest more into a running back (or offensive line) to generate the same level of running game.

the thing is, your head is attached to your shoulders, and when 2 guys are moving at full speed, stuff happens. Theres just too many times where a guy tries to deliver a blow with his shoulder but there ends up being helmet contact and it becomes a huge call in the game. I feel like these kind of penalties should only be called in really blatant circumstances where a guy is using his helmet as a weapon. If they flag this penalty anything like they flag the defensive illegal hits, its gonna be really aggravating.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:56 AM    (permalink
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I'm starting to dislike football more and more every year there is a change.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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the thing is, your head is attached to your shoulders, and when 2 guys are moving at full speed, stuff happens. Theres just too many times where a guy tries to deliver a blow with his shoulder but there ends up being helmet contact and it becomes a huge call in the game. I feel like these kind of penalties should only be called in really blatant circumstances where a guy is using his helmet as a weapon. If they flag this penalty anything like they flag the defensive illegal hits, its gonna be really aggravating.
Pretty much.
Calling it strictly as the rule has it written isn't that bad.
But in actual use this will cause more problems than anything.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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This will never again be legal.

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Old 03-22-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I have an idea that might help refs judge this new rule. What if they put a bullseye on the crown of the helmet? That way it would be easy to identify when the crown is used as a weapon, bc you can physically see the bullseye where the crown is considered illegal. That takes a lot of guess work out of the call.

Just an idea. It could potentially help. Won't look pretty but it could help.

Honestly, if they really want to bring the shoulder back in the game and reduce the way the helmet is being used as a weapon, take off the facemasks. Guys will throw their shoulder instead of their helmet a lot more if you take the facemask away.
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