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Old 03-21-2013, 09:39 AM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
JPP always had an incredible motor and work ethic though. To me, that's what makes him so special. Lots of guys have his athletic ability (well not lots, but quite a few) it's the fact he works so hard and is relentless that makes him so special in combination with those athletic gifts. Imagine how good Julius Peppers would be with JPP's work ethic and motor.

JPP had questions with consistency in college, but that's not unheard of because of how raw he was to football.
I don't know about his work ethic. He was overweight all of last year because he got lazy after the SB and his great year.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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So I've looked at a little Arthur Brown and he's reminding me of Daryl Washington, I'd be totally stoked if he slides to round two, but I just can't get on board with picking a LB with a top 20 pick that doesn't have Miller or Willis potential.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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So I've looked at a little Arthur Brown and he's reminding me of Daryl Washington, I'd be totally stoked if he slides to round two, but I just can't get on board with picking a LB with a top 20 pick that doesn't have Miller or Willis potential.
Good point, in the modern NFL, picking defense over offense is tough enough, picking LB's in round 1 is not a strong possibility.
I really think the Giants need to look at the OL, it's aging and isn't that talented to begin with.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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I heard Brown blew up his pro day. If he's running a 4.6 and is the same height/weight as Oggletree which is what is being reported, then I wouldn't mind him in the 1st round. Brown is the real deal.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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I still like Xavier Rhodes as our first pick. I think we need another CB and it makes perfect sense to get one of his caliber if he's there at 19.

Him and Prince on the edges and Hosely at nickel will be a nice trio for the future. Then we gotta hope Will Hill can anchor SS and then look for our FS next year or maybe later in the draft. Maybe even round 2 if we see anyone with range that's available then.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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If you look at it, Webster and Rolle will be gone after this year, and it takes a CB a year to develop.

So why not get your CB now? Plug and chug next year when Webster is cut and Rolle is gone. We can't fill all these holes in 1 year but I know we're gonna look at DB as a major need if we don't address it this year. So if he's BPA, might as well address it now and have it taken care of before the next year arrives.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Alright. Watched 5 games for Tank. My final thoughts:

Pros
-Love his length. He knows how to use his hands and he knows how to extend.

-Knows how to work a OLmen. He's good at sizing up his OLmen, then using his moves to get past them. He's a good read and react player. Has the body of a 4-3 RE but the brain of a 5 tech in a 2 gap scheme. Knows his gap assignments and knows how to crank up the rush after reading the play. Finishes pass rushes later in the play

-Has good functional strength when he gets low. I feel like he can strengthen his core and base but when he gets low and he dedicates himself to the bullrush he can generate power.

-Productive. Versatile. I feel like he can rush inside on 3rd down bc he does a good job of diagnosing protections and can find the gaps to stunt in.

-Can stretch a OL. What I mean by that is he can widen the OT and create space for interior rushes to shoot gaps.

Cons

-Weak vs the run. When an OT puts his hands on him he has trouble stacking and shedding. Was pushed around in the run game when they run at him. Not a LE bc of this.

-Weak initial punch. You want to see a violent punch to off balance those OLmen and he doesn't have it. He's more of a guy who let's his OLmen set, then he tries to get around them. He won't beat them to their set or try to disrupt their set.

-Slow first step. I don't know the reasoning behind it, I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but my impression is what i stated above. He likes to see his OLmen set, then he'll rush. He also seems to be thinking a lot, he'll play his run gap first which requires me to come off the line a little slower, then he'll rush.

-Weak core. His base isn't strong. That's why he gets pushed around. He needs to do a lot of core training, he's all arms and legs. No base strength.

-Great motor when he starts out winning or drawing neutral on the play, but if he gets owned at 1 missippi, he's done. So his motor is average I guess.

-Never had to fight double teams. Florida St had a great DL. Werner usually had the back slide his way, and they have a DT that was good inside. Tank saw few doubles. When he did he was 50 50 on them. Either the RB had no chance bc of his speed and length, or he got stonewalled.


Overall, I think he has potential as a good RE prospect, if we can figure out that first step. I think his core strength is something he can work on, I think leverage and setting the edge is something he can improve as he gets stronger, I think he already has a good arsenal of moves and has the length needed to succeed. He has good speed when he gets a good get off. But it's that first step. I just wish we could get some triangle numbers on the guy bc we really need those to figure this guy out. I just don't know.

If you draft him, you're gambling. He's a gamble. He can be great, or he can suck. He has plays in every game where you say wow. Then he also has plays in every game where you say ew. He's hot and cold in that sense.

I really don't know what to make of him. I need triangle numbers.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:16 AM    (permalink
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I'm gonna go scout Kenny Vaccaro next. I usually rely on LonghornLegends when it comes to Texas players, he's a very good and fair evaluator of their personnel, and from what he says about Vaccaro, I definitely need to put the eyeball on him.

If he's Earl Thomas, then I'm all about Kenny Vaccaro at 19 if he's there. Him and Will Hill could make an excellent safety duo for the future.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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If you look at it, Webster and Rolle will be gone after this year, and it takes a CB a year to develop.

So why not get your CB now? Plug and chug next year when Webster is cut and Rolle is gone. We can't fill all these holes in 1 year but I know we're gonna look at DB as a major need if we don't address it this year. So if he's BPA, might as well address it now and have it taken care of before the next year arrives.
I've been saying this for a while, and I have been heavily pimping Trufant. He's going to be a great NFL corner. I'm sure of it. By far my favorite prospect in the draft that is realistic for the Giants to get. Would be ok with rhodes as well, but I feel he would be misused in our scheme. His strengths doesn't suit the tampa 2 defense.

I know we shouldn't exclude drafting players based on a possible lame duck DC, but Coughlin's so damn loyal, I fear Fewell will stick around for a long time if we make the playoffs next year.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:21 AM    (permalink
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I'm not as high on Trufant as others are. I still have to scout him some, but he comes off as more of a zone defender than a bump and run guy to me. That's what I love about Rhodes, he was born to bump and run.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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4 quick notes:

1. If we go TE later in the draft, the guy I have on my radar is Chris Pantale. You might have heard of me talking him up before. He's a BC kid, reminds me of Kevin Boss a lot, he's local from NJ, he has a long frame and he's a good route runner, he screams Pope to me. I've been eyeing him since last year when I was scouting Keuchly.

2. Kyle Long is really growing on me as a G prospect in round 2. I think we can develop him into a good player. He has the pedigree too. A little old, some potential character concerns with his past drug use, but he's a physical beast and we can put him in the farm and develop him.

3. Terron Armstead screams mid round developmental OL pick to me. He's a great project for us if we do our typical mid round project OL selection. Put him in the farm, let him pack on weight, and make him our future RT or even RG in a year. I'd love that pick.

4. I cannot emphasize enough how much I love Jordan Hill. He's gonna be a stud. You heard it here first. What I love is his motor, his ability to play with leverage, and he's so damn smart. This guy is pro ready. He's so smart at recognizing plays and knowing how to get around certain blocking techniques. He's the real deal, and he's gonna be a steal in this draft class. You heard it here first.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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I'm not as high on Trufant as others are. I still have to scout him some, but he comes off as more of a zone defender than a bump and run guy to me. That's what I love about Rhodes, he was born to bump and run.
I think we are better off getting a zone defender for the Perry Fewell defense than a somewhat stiff bump and run corner.

Besides, from what I saw from Trufant in the Senior Bowl, he did great in the man coverage, 1 on 1 drills. I urge you to check his senior bowl practices out. I think you will come away mightily impressed. They are still available on youtube I think.

I really don't want to make this comparison, because it is totally unfair to put this much pressure on a prospect, but I see some Revis-like coverage from Trufant in those practices.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Drafting to a coordinator is a terrible idea. Fewell may not even be here next year.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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I think we are better off getting a zone defender for the Perry Fewell defense than a somewhat stiff bump and run corner.

Besides, from what I saw from Trufant in the Senior Bowl, he did great in the man coverage, 1 on 1 drills. I urge you to check his senior bowl practices out. I think you will come away mightily impressed. They are still available on youtube I think.

I really don't want to make this comparison, because it is totally unfair to put this much pressure on a prospect, but I see some Revis-like coverage from Trufant in those practices.
I'll check him out. This is the 2nd time I heard the Revis comparison.

Keep in mind, every CB we've drafted, from Web, to Ross, to Thomas, to Prince, to even Hosely, have been in the mold of Rhodes: bump and run CBs. That's what we look for from a scouting perspective.

And you know we love long arms on defense. It's a staple of this scouting department. They love size and length.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Drafting to a coordinator is a terrible idea. Fewell may not even be here next year.
I know, I already acknowledged that fact in my post yesterday. But either way, I think Trufant is a great player to have regardless of your DC. And I think he's better suited for our current coordinator. I don't know as much about scouting prospects as you guys, I'm just pimping my biggest prospect mancrush ever

Would be fine with Rhodes as well, he looks like a good corner in his own right.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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By all means pimp away. We all do it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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I'll check him out. This is the 2nd time I heard the Revis comparison.

Keep in mind, every CB we've drafted, from Web, to Ross, to Thomas, to Prince, to even Hosely, have been in the mold of Rhodes: bump and run CBs. That's what we look for from a scouting perspective.

And you know we love long arms on defense. It's a staple of this scouting department. They love size and length.
Nice. I don't want you to think Revis when you see him though, he's obviously probably not a clone of the best cover corner in the NFL today(maybe best ever). But I do see a guy who is great at staying in the recievers hip pocket. His lacking stats, from what I've read from some draftniks, may be due to teams staying away from even throwing at him in college.

Yeah, I know we like size on our CBs, and defense in general really, but 6'0 190 which Trufant is, isn't that bad. Especially not with a 37'5 vertical and 16 reps in the bench press. He at least seemed physical enough at the senior bowl. Didn't get bullied at the LOS that I could see.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:18 AM    (permalink
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This is the kind of thing I could see us doing on draft day


19: OT DJ Fluker, Alabama

49: DE Tank Carradine, Florida State

81: OLB Khaseem Greene, Rutgers

116 DT Jordan Hill, Penn State

152: TE Nick Kasa, Colorado

187: RB Knile Davis, Arkansas

225: CB Khalid Wooten, Nevada

253: OL JC Tretter, Cornell
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:33 AM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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This is the kind of thing I could see us doing on draft day


19: OT DJ Fluker, Alabama

49: DE Tank Carradine, Florida State

81: OLB Khaseem Greene, Rutgers

116 DT Jordan Hill, Penn State

152: TE Nick Kasa, Colorado

187: RB Knile Davis, Arkansas

225: CB Khalid Wooten, Nevada

253: OL JC Tretter, Cornell
This would give us a roster shaping up something like (with number of likely roster spots):

QB (2): Manning, Carr, Painter

RB (4): Wilson, Brown, Scott, Torain, Davis

FB (1): Hynoski

WR (6): Nicks, Cruz, Murphy, Randle, Jernigan, Collins

TE (3): Myers, Pascoe, Robinson, Kasa

OT (4): Beatty, Brewer, Fluker, Diehl, Mosley, McCants

OG (3): Snee, Boothe, Capers, Goodin

OC (2): Baas, Cordle

DE (5): Tuck, Pierre-Paul, Kiwanuka, Carradine, Tracy, Ojomo, Trattou

DT (4): Joseph, Jenkins, Rogers, Hill, Kuhn, Austin

OLB (4): Williams, Rivers, Paysinger, Greene

ILB (2): Connor, Herzlich, Muasau

CB (5): Amukamara, Webster, Ross, Hosley, Wooten

S (5): Rolle, Brown, Hill, Sash, Mundy
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:39 AM    (permalink
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4 quick notes:

1. If we go TE later in the draft, the guy I have on my radar is Chris Pantale. You might have heard of me talking him up before. He's a BC kid, reminds me of Kevin Boss a lot, he's local from NJ, he has a long frame and he's a good route runner, he screams Pope to me. I've been eyeing him since last year when I was scouting Keuchly.

2. Kyle Long is really growing on me as a G prospect in round 2. I think we can develop him into a good player. He has the pedigree too. A little old, some potential character concerns with his past drug use, but he's a physical beast and we can put him in the farm and develop him.

3. Terron Armstead screams mid round developmental OL pick to me. He's a great project for us if we do our typical mid round project OL selection. Put him in the farm, let him pack on weight, and make him our future RT or even RG in a year. I'd love that pick.

4. I cannot emphasize enough how much I love Jordan Hill. He's gonna be a stud. You heard it here first. What I love is his motor, his ability to play with leverage, and he's so damn smart. This guy is pro ready. He's so smart at recognizing plays and knowing how to get around certain blocking techniques. He's the real deal, and he's gonna be a steal in this draft class. You heard it here first.
Terron Armstead is very raw, but he does have great physical tools.

I wonder if he could actually play TE in our system, we like bigger TEs who can block and this guy is 6-5, 300 and runs 4.7 in the 40. LBs and DBs would have trouble covering a big guy like that.
I have no idea if he has decent hands though.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:00 AM    (permalink
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This is the kind of thing I could see us doing on draft day


19: OT DJ Fluker, Alabama

49: DE Tank Carradine, Florida State

81: OLB Khaseem Greene, Rutgers

116 DT Jordan Hill, Penn State

152: TE Nick Kasa, Colorado

187: RB Knile Davis, Arkansas

225: CB Khalid Wooten, Nevada

253: OL JC Tretter, Cornell
Don't know anything about the last two players, but I would sign up for that draft in a heartbeat. The only thing I would worry about is the lack of CBs on our roster. So I would personally want us to draft a CB in the top three rounds for us to be as complete a team as possible next yr. Maybe instead of drafting Khaseem(sorry Rutgers fans). I feel we can find good LBs later in the draft better than good CBs.
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JPP enjoys raping offensive tackles.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:09 AM    (permalink
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This is the kind of thing I could see us doing on draft day


19: OT DJ Fluker, Alabama

49: DE Tank Carradine, Florida State

81: OLB Khaseem Greene, Rutgers

116 DT Jordan Hill, Penn State

152: TE Nick Kasa, Colorado

187: RB Knile Davis, Arkansas

225: CB Khalid Wooten, Nevada

253: OL JC Tretter, Cornell
If this was our draft there would be a huge cleanup in aisle Giants Forum.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:31 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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How do people feel about Bjeorn Werner at 19?

I think there is a decent chance he could be available.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Don't want him at all.

The only round 1 pass rushers I like are Ansah, Jordan, and Mingo. If Tank is considered a round 1 guy I'd think about it.

But none of the 3 are gonna be there. And Tank is a risk in round 1.

Not a Montgomery, Jones, Werner fan. I do like Jamie Collins but not sure if he fits our scheme. Same with Mingo, although I can see a creative DC, aka not Perry Fewell, using him in a Von Miller role in a 43 defense.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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We hear the JPP comparisons all the time, but the guy that actually reminds me of JPP the most is Dion Jordan, not Ansah.

JPP had ridiculous flexibility, that's what made him so special. Jordan has incredible flexibility as well. The real difference btw Jordan and JPP is power, core strength and weight. But that's it. Both are long, both are fast, both are incredibly flexible. Jordan can be a JPP if he packs on weight and builds strength. A poor man's JPP.

Ansah isn't nearly as flexible as JPP. Still a beast of course and I'd love him as a LE.
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