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Old 03-21-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
leroyisgod
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Originally Posted by Macarthur View Post
I just don't see how you can view it as a luxury pick when both of our top guys have some injury history. I think it's way too optimistic to think both will be healthy for an entire season.
It's a luxury pick because WR isn't a top need. Not even in the top 3.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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It's a luxury pick because WR isn't a top need. Not even in the top 3.
I would agree it's probably not a top need, but I don't think we can fully evaluate that until after we have done some stuff in FA. I think the Romo deal gets done soon and we make a couple of signings.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Macarthur View Post
I would agree it's probably not a top need, but I don't think we can fully evaluate that until after we have done some stuff in FA. I think the Romo deal gets done soon and we make a couple of signings.
A new deal for Romo would get the Cowboys enough money to sign draft picks... not sure it would give them enough to also sign a few free agents. Unless of course they plan on signing a tackle like Winston, then releasing Free. In which case, you're still probably just looking at adding NFL minimum players at other positions.

My free agent guesses they would be interested in are:

RT Eric Winston - this has been mentioned, but they may need to move quickly because Dolphins are likely to offer him

WR Laurent Robinson - Garrett would have to be interested

S Michael Huff - already getting interest, Dallas probably doesn't have a chance

LB Leroy Hill - possible strong side candidate

LE Israel Idonije - knows Marinelli and the cover-2. Would be a huge help if Spencer proves a liability vs. the run... but seems to be demanding big money - something Dallas cannot offer

CB/FS Rhonde Barber - knows the cover-2, familiar with Kiffin

DT Amobi Okoye - never lived up to his 1st round billing, but added inside rush potential can't be ignored and he's still only 25
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
Macarthur
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A new deal for Romo would get the Cowboys enough money to sign draft picks... not sure it would give them enough to also sign a few free agents. Unless of course they plan on signing a tackle like Winston, then releasing Free. In which case, you're still probably just looking at adding NFL minimum players at other positions.

My free agent guesses they would be interested in are:

RT Eric Winston - this has been mentioned, but they may need to move quickly because Dolphins are likely to offer him

WR Laurent Robinson - Garrett would have to be interested

S Michael Huff - already getting interest, Dallas probably doesn't have a chance

LB Leroy Hill - possible strong side candidate

LE Israel Idonije - knows Marinelli and the cover-2. Would be a huge help if Spencer proves a liability vs. the run... but seems to be demanding big money - something Dallas cannot offer

CB/FS Rhonde Barber - knows the cover-2, familiar with Kiffin

DT Amobi Okoye - never lived up to his 1st round billing, but added inside rush potential can't be ignored and he's still only 25
I think all those names are good possibilities.

I do think you are under shooting what reworking Romo's cap figure would give them. They're right at the cap and he's counting like $16 million. They could cut that in about half or close to it. That would give them anywhere from $5 to 8 million just on Romo's. That doesn't include them doing something with Spencer, which I think the signs are they will try.

It's possible that by this time next week, they could have freed up $10 to $12 million.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Well I listed my personal ideal mock in my sig. In hindsight it ended up being offensive heavy, but this would be my direction. Only returning starter on the line is Tyron and Berny, Parnell and Terron can battle it out for the RT spot, either let Terron develop a year or have Pernell as a great swing tackle. Cooper is a massive upgrade inside, Cook is healthy, there are a lot of upgrades there.


Also grabbing another back who isn't a quick gadget guy and can handle a bigger load, all this makes life easier on Romo and doesn't make him have to play insanely good for us to win. Or throw the ball 50 times a game. WR isn't even a thought of mine, let's worry about that when Austin is cut. Anyone who says we need more WR's re-watch the Thanksgiving game at how we moved the ball through the air without Austin.


At Safety, ideally I'd like to pair Huff with Reid as they contrast eachother well, and Robinson can fill in for Huff next year or 2, or at least battle for the position. For our front 7 on D ideally I'd like some low cost guys for depth, but we don't need to spend a high pick there for this year IMO.


If we tackled the draft in this manner, next year we could literally go ALL defense next year with the exception of maybe a WR. If Austin restructures it's not even a concern. But if we intend to have Romo around I'd put resources into our line and another RB.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Bryan Broaddus ‏@BryanBroaddus 10m
Names the Cowboys are actually bringing in for UFA visits Will Allen S and Justin Durant LB. Will visit Valley Ranch on Monday.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Well I listed my personal ideal mock in my sig. In hindsight it ended up being offensive heavy, but this would be my direction. Only returning starter on the line is Tyron and Berny, Parnell and Terron can battle it out for the RT spot, either let Terron develop a year or have Pernell as a great swing tackle. Cooper is a massive upgrade inside, Cook is healthy, there are a lot of upgrades there.


Also grabbing another back who isn't a quick gadget guy and can handle a bigger load, all this makes life easier on Romo and doesn't make him have to play insanely good for us to win. Or throw the ball 50 times a game. WR isn't even a thought of mine, let's worry about that when Austin is cut. Anyone who says we need more WR's re-watch the Thanksgiving game at how we moved the ball through the air without Austin.


At Safety, ideally I'd like to pair Huff with Reid as they contrast eachother well, and Robinson can fill in for Huff next year or 2, or at least battle for the position. For our front 7 on D ideally I'd like some low cost guys for depth, but we don't need to spend a high pick there for this year IMO.


If we tackled the draft in this manner, next year we could literally go ALL defense next year with the exception of maybe a WR. If Austin restructures it's not even a concern. But if we intend to have Romo around I'd put resources into our line and another RB.
While I think the OL certainly needs work, switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 Cover 2 Defense, must mean the Coyboys will likely be forced to concentrate on defense in this year's draft and worry about offense in next year's draft.

Kiffin plays a Cover 2 defense which requires Safeties who can cover half the field and won't get to play much in the box. In that system speed is almost more important than toughness at the Safety position.

It is kind of strange that after the Cowboys managed to get 2 very good man to man corners, they would bring in a DC who likes to play zone defense an awful lot.

Your LB'sd need to be excellent in pass coverage over run stoppage and the DL must be able to rush the passer full tilt almost all the time. While some of the pieces suit this new system, there will be a need for a differentr type of player at a # of positions. Considering Kiffin's age, it sure looked like a very strange hire to me.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Default 2013. Draft

About a month away and the names r becoming more clear as we get down to draft day. I am no expert nor do I pretend....I just go by what i see.

Notes:
Vacarro- good player I just don't think he plays a position of absolute need. I think it would not be in our best interest to select him at 18. I would not be upset, but would rather go another way. Would rather hope J.C the other safety is their in round 2

Cooper - I would be elastic if he was therei just think JJ would be over confident and trade down. I think u take him and shut up.

Richardson - see above

Womack - run to the podium

Austin - here is my cant believe JJ pick. He might

Flicker -trade down......somebody might want vacarro morethan us

Comment please
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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When it comes to safety prospect that'll fit the Cowboys defense, I don't see Kenny Vaccaro as a wise investment/fit because his greatest asset is his ability to match up in man coverage and the scheme will not ask him to do that. Phillip Thomas in the second or third round would make more sense.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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While I think the OL certainly needs work, switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 Cover 2 Defense, must mean the Coyboys will likely be forced to concentrate on defense in this year's draft and worry about offense in next year's draft.

Kiffin plays a Cover 2 defense which requires Safeties who can cover half the field and won't get to play much in the box. In that system speed is almost more important than toughness at the Safety position.

It is kind of strange that after the Cowboys managed to get 2 very good man to man corners, they would bring in a DC who likes to play zone defense an awful lot.

Your LB'sd need to be excellent in pass coverage over run stoppage and the DL must be able to rush the passer full tilt almost all the time. While some of the pieces suit this new system, there will be a need for a differentr type of player at a # of positions. Considering Kiffin's age, it sure looked like a very strange hire to me.
Those are legit concerns, but they have already been answered. We played a TON of zone coverage last season. This isn't anything foreign to our corners. If anything, I think Kiffin will get more out of them because his teams have done that consistently in the past. Yeah, we paid a pretty penny because of their man coverage ability, but that's not gonna hurt them. lol.

Our Safeties are definitely a concern. I think we'll get one in FA and one in the Draft.

Kiffin's age doesn't bother me one bit. Parcells was an old geezer and he turned this team around. I think Jerry hopes to have hit lightning in a bottle twice. Bringing in another scheme guru. Plus, if this works, I think Marinelli could be the next DC in waiting. Unlike the way Parcells left us high and dry.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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LL,

What can you tell me about Kenny Vaccaro?
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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LL,

What can you tell me about Kenny Vaccaro?
Reason why most people say he may not be the greatest fit is due to his ability in man coverage and to be able to cover in the slot. His work against Tavon Austin was some of his finest as he was asked to match up with him man to man so that in itself is impressive. He just isn't the best in run support and takes really bad angles on the ball carrier. But his coverage skills, and ability to kick down to the slot and cover WR's is special.


I think it's stupid to say he doesn't fit here, and try to fit a bunch of slow, cover 2 Safeties in this scheme and assume they'll be in zone all day. Plus it's not like Kiffin is 40 years old, we may run his scheme for a year or 2. He fits here just fine and smoke is starting to make it seem like we'll jump STL at 16 to get him IMO. He's got really good range but he'd look much better if you could put him with a bit of a thumper at SS in the mold of a Pollard type.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Those are legit concerns, but they have already been answered. We played a TON of zone coverage last season. This isn't anything foreign to our corners. If anything, I think Kiffin will get more out of them because his teams have done that consistently in the past. Yeah, we paid a pretty penny because of their man coverage ability, but that's not gonna hurt them. lol.

Our Safeties are definitely a concern. I think we'll get one in FA and one in the Draft.

Kiffin's age doesn't bother me one bit. Parcells was an old geezer and he turned this team around. I think Jerry hopes to have hit lightning in a bottle twice. Bringing in another scheme guru. Plus, if this works, I think Marinelli could be the next DC in waiting. Unlike the way Parcells left us high and dry.
Which is it?
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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Reason why most people say he may not be the greatest fit is due to his ability in man coverage and to be able to cover in the slot. His work against Tavon Austin was some of his finest as he was asked to match up with him man to man so that in itself is impressive. He just isn't the best in run support and takes really bad angles on the ball carrier. But his coverage skills, and ability to kick down to the slot and cover WR's is special.


I think it's stupid to say he doesn't fit here, and try to fit a bunch of slow, cover 2 Safeties in this scheme and assume they'll be in zone all day. Plus it's not like Kiffin is 40 years old, we may run his scheme for a year or 2. He fits here just fine and smoke is starting to make it seem like we'll jump STL at 16 to get him IMO. He's got really good range but he'd look much better if you could put him with a bit of a thumper at SS in the mold of a Pollard type.

Who are the slow cover-2 safeties? And who has suggested trying to fit a slow cover-2 safety on this team?

Sounds like a shot at Cyprien, who ran faster than Vacarro, but I'm just taking a shot in the dark... Lol

I've beat this horse to death. Vacarro has a ton of potential but he's raw at this point. He's got size, speed, effort, and a willingness to be physical.

He first round worthy based on potential, but he isn't Mark Barron in terms of being a prospect. He's a guy you'd like to see make more plays.

He's also very hands-on and will get called for a bunch of PI penalties if he doesn't clean it up. He frequently re-routes guys beyond 5 yards and it isn't subtle, it's an obvious penalty at the next level.

Vacarro also has a puzzling issue with getting stuck on WR's blocks. I just don't understand how he can't overpower them.

To me, Matt Elam is the best Safety at this point in terms of ability & on field potential, but his height is a limiting factor.

Cyrprien, like Vacarro,Maas the size, speed, effort, and willingness to get dirty. In my opinion is better coming forward from the back half to make plays in the run game and has loads of experience playing cover-2

I like them as Elam, Cyprien, Vacarro but think they'll be drafted in the opposite order with Elam even slipping another sport or 2 because of height.

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Old 03-25-2013, 07:09 AM    (permalink
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Reason why most people say he may not be the greatest fit is due to his ability in man coverage and to be able to cover in the slot. His work against Tavon Austin was some of his finest as he was asked to match up with him man to man so that in itself is impressive. He just isn't the best in run support and takes really bad angles on the ball carrier. But his coverage skills, and ability to kick down to the slot and cover WR's is special.


I think it's stupid to say he doesn't fit here, and try to fit a bunch of slow, cover 2 Safeties in this scheme and assume they'll be in zone all day. Plus it's not like Kiffin is 40 years old, we may run his scheme for a year or 2. He fits here just fine and smoke is starting to make it seem like we'll jump STL at 16 to get him IMO. He's got really good range but he'd look much better if you could put him with a bit of a thumper at SS in the mold of a Pollard type.
He sounds like Earl Thomas, and you know how much I love Earl. That's why I asked you bc I remember you were all about Earl Thomas when he came out. To me a FS is all about range, I'm not overly concerned about his ability in the run game, I need him to take away the deep ball. So if Vaccaro is special in doing that I would be all about him in the 1st round. Those type of FS are hard to come by.

Does he remind you of Thomas? And does his 40 time scare you? Didn't he run a 4.6?
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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Who are the slow cover-2 safeties? And who has suggested trying to fit a slow cover-2 safety on this team?

Sounds like a shot at Cyprien, who ran faster than Vacarro, but I'm just taking a shot in the dark... Lol

I've beat this horse to death. Vacarro has a ton of potential but he's raw at this point. He's got size, speed, effort, and a willingness to be physical.

He first round worthy based on potential, but he isn't Mark Barron in terms of being a prospect. He's a guy you'd like to see make more plays.

He's also very hands-on and will get called for a bunch of PI penalties if he doesn't clean it up. He frequently re-routes guys beyond 5 yards and it isn't subtle, it's an obvious penalty at the next level.

Vacarro also has a puzzling issue with getting stuck on WR's blocks. I just don't understand how he can't overpower them.

To me, Matt Elam is the best Safety at this point in terms of ability & on field potential, but his height is a limiting factor.

Cyrprien, like Vacarro,Maas the size, speed, effort, and willingness to get dirty. In my opinion is better coming forward from the back half to make plays in the run game and has loads of experience playing cover-2

I like them as Elam, Cyprien, Vacarro but think they'll be drafted in the opposite order with Elam even slipping another sport or 2 because of height.

I definately don't think Cyprien fits into that category, I would be happy with him. I just don't agree with people who say they don't want Vaccaro because of their opinion of how a Tampa 2 Safety should be which would be a bad idea IMO. I've always hated those scheme dependent Cover 2 style Safeties anyway, you change the scheme and they end up terrible. Every year I've scouted Safeties for us I'm always a fan of the deep centerfield guys who have range(similiar to what you guys used to use KP for), I feel like in todays passing game those guys are valuable and I like the flexibility it provides to the defense.


I guess I just want the overall most talented guy with the most versatility not the guy who supposedly fits the best in a Kiffin defense which is what I've seen and heard a bunch of. That's the least of my concerns. Now of course to you that means I want Vaccaro because of my username but none the less I can get on board with a bunch of these Safeties this year because I like the depth unlike other years, most notably 2009 where I was in love with Delmas and hated everyone else.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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He sounds like Earl Thomas, and you know how much I love Earl. That's why I asked you bc I remember you were all about Earl Thomas when he came out. To me a FS is all about range, I'm not overly concerned about his ability in the run game, I need him to take away the deep ball. So if Vaccaro is special in doing that I would be all about him in the 1st round. Those type of FS are hard to come by.

Does he remind you of Thomas? And does his 40 time scare you? Didn't he run a 4.6?
I would say he's a poor mans Earl Thomas if anything. His run support isn't in the same class at all and that's a big portion of it. Thomas could play deep center with that range but he was so instinctive he could always come up and assist against the run by taking great angles. Vaccaro probably has better hips from what I can see but I don't think his instincts or awareness were as good as Thomas was coming out.


But that's not really a knock, as Earl Thomas was a top 10 Safety prospect other then size. I think if you have agressive corners who can play press man(like we have) a guy like Vaccaro can clean up everything over the top really well but you have to pair him with the right type of SS. I don't think it'll be the best reciple to put Huff at SS and Vaccaro at FS.


Look at all the head hunters on Seattle's D who will do the dirty work and clean up the mess at every level. Earl Thomas is able to play that center field rolle so beautiful because of what Kam Chancellor brings to the table. Then you have Red Bryant up front who sucks up blockers like a magnet. I'm struggling to find any guy like that on our defense and it seems like we are going with too much speed and not enough nasty. We need a thumper, and you really don't get that with Vaccaro.


Elam, and probably Cyprien are more well rounded in all areas, for what I like out of my Safeties it's Vaccaro.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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I would say he's a poor mans Earl Thomas if anything. His run support isn't in the same class at all and that's a big portion of it. Thomas could play deep center with that range but he was so instinctive he could always come up and assist against the run by taking great angles. Vaccaro probably has better hips from what I can see but I don't think his instincts or awareness were as good as Thomas was coming out.


But that's not really a knock, as Earl Thomas was a top 10 Safety prospect other then size. I think if you have agressive corners who can play press man(like we have) a guy like Vaccaro can clean up everything over the top really well but you have to pair him with the right type of SS. I don't think it'll be the best reciple to put Huff at SS and Vaccaro at FS.


Look at all the head hunters on Seattle's D who will do the dirty work and clean up the mess at every level. Earl Thomas is able to play that center field rolle so beautiful because of what Kam Chancellor brings to the table. Then you have Red Bryant up front who sucks up blockers like a magnet. I'm struggling to find any guy like that on our defense and it seems like we are going with too much speed and not enough nasty. We need a thumper, and you really don't get that with Vaccaro.


Elam, and probably Cyprien are more well rounded in all areas, for what I like out of my Safeties it's Vaccaro.
That's why I like Phillip Thomas. Especially if you think you can get him in the 3rd round. Natural playmaking ballhawking skills that you need for a cover-2 safety. Also Cyprien is a good name because he did that same thing at FIU.

Earl Wolff has some ability, but lacks the measurables to do much of anything aside from a cover-2.

Another interesting name is JJ Wilcox. Small school guy, who's coverted positions a couple time, but really good hands, and if you're going to play him in a deep cover-2 and make sure everything's in front of him - you could have a stud that you could land in the 6th round.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Huge fan of both Vaccaro and Phillip Thomas as FS in our scheme. Cyprien I REALLY like but I want him playing in Church's spot not playing FS.

Elam I soured on a bit watching tape because of how unheralded Josh Thomas is. I wouldn't mind taking a LONG look at him in the middle rounds given how much of the back-end he was responsible for while Elam roamed.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Notes from Phillip Thomas pro day.


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Phillip Thomas ran a solid forty time of 4.53s on slow field turf then looked good in drills. Most of the 26 teams on hand where there to watch Thomas and by most accounts he did not disappoint. Thomas was fast in both a straight line and laterally then displayed terrific ball skills.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I definately don't think Cyprien fits into that category, I would be happy with him. I just don't agree with people who say they don't want Vaccaro because of their opinion of how a Tampa 2 Safety should be which would be a bad idea IMO. I've always hated those scheme dependent Cover 2 style Safeties anyway, you change the scheme and they end up terrible. Every year I've scouted Safeties for us I'm always a fan of the deep centerfield guys who have range(similiar to what you guys used to use KP for), I feel like in todays passing game those guys are valuable and I like the flexibility it provides to the defense.


I guess I just want the overall most talented guy with the most versatility not the guy who supposedly fits the best in a Kiffin defense which is what I've seen and heard a bunch of. That's the least of my concerns. Now of course to you that means I want Vaccaro because of my username but none the less I can get on board with a bunch of these Safeties this year because I like the depth unlike other years, most notably 2009 where I was in love with Delmas and hated everyone else.
Not true at all. I understand why you want Vacarro. He's got a ton of potential and could end up being a great player.

I just think he has more stuff to work on than most do. I think he's more raw as I've stated before.

If the Cowboys picked him, I wouldn't be upset at all. Different story if they drafted someone like Eric Reid.

I like Vacarro, I just like Elam and Cyprien more.

You have valid reasons for being a Vacarro fan. Big, fast, physical, versatile.

But I also agree with you that there is depth in this safety class. Probably the deepest class in past several years. Even if they don't get a top 3 guy, they will still have a chance to draft some interesting guys.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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That's why I like Phillip Thomas. Especially if you think you can get him in the 3rd round. Natural playmaking ballhawking skills that you need for a cover-2 safety. Also Cyprien is a good name because he did that same thing at FIU.

Earl Wolff has some ability, but lacks the measurables to do much of anything aside from a cover-2.

Another interesting name is JJ Wilcox. Small school guy, who's coverted positions a couple time, but really good hands, and if you're going to play him in a deep cover-2 and make sure everything's in front of him - you could have a stud that you could land in the 6th round.
Rev -- what have you seen that makes you think Phillip Thomas is a ballhawk?

I'm not disputing that, I'm curious

Everywhere I look has Phillip as a FS but as I've mentioned before I had an opportunity to speak with him a few weeks ago and he told me he sees himself as more of an in-the-box SS type. That's straight from the horses mouth.

And from the cut ups I've been able to watch, he spends more time in the box than he does deep.

Am I missing something?
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Huge fan of both Vaccaro and Phillip Thomas as FS in our scheme. Cyprien I REALLY like but I want him playing in Church's spot not playing FS.

Elam I soured on a bit watching tape because of how unheralded Josh Thomas is. I wouldn't mind taking a LONG look at him in the middle rounds given how much of the back-end he was responsible for while Elam roamed.
Josh Thomas doesn't really impress me. Very stiff. Bigger than Elam but not as physical.

I can't get enough of Elam. Arguably the most physical safety in this draft and the most versatile behind Vacarro.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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What are the thoughts on Stepfan Taylor out of Stanford? I watched some highlights if his a few months back and thought he reminded me a lot of Doug Martin. Chatter on him from what I've seen has been pretty non-existent. Is there any black marks against him?
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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What are the thoughts on Stepfan Taylor out of Stanford? I watched some highlights if his a few months back and thought he reminded me a lot of Doug Martin. Chatter on him from what I've seen has been pretty non-existent. Is there any black marks against him?
Doug Martin is more explosive than Taylor. Taylor is more like a Green-Ellis, where he's not a home run hitter but he runs downhill and is a tough runner.
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