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Old 03-23-2013, 01:13 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Don't take what coaches say at face value.

Remember, after the draft every GM is gonna come out and claim they took "the best available player" with their selection. Or that the player they selected was "the highest on their board" etc.

It's all ********.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Well, these moves will either make Reid look like a genius or get him fired:
1. trading 2 second round picks for alex smith
2. potentially trading Branden Albert
3. potentially drafting a LT very early.

interesting fact: In the history of the NFL only 3 LT have been drafted #1 overall (Jake Long, Orlando Pace, and Ron Yary)
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by findthedr View Post
Asked if Foles couldve been Chiefs QB under a different situation,Reid: "I had my eyes on Alex when I took the job." Only starter he pursued

sure does sound like Reid wanted Alex Smith before even evaluating any of the QBs in the 2013 class.
Smith is the guy they actually got. Reid would be a fool to say anything else. You don't go and say "we'll we really wanted this guy but couldn't get him so we were stuck with Alex Smith"; you fully back the QB who will actually be starting for you weather he was your first and only choice or your 5th choice.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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interesting fact: In the history of the NFL only 3 LT have been drafted #1 overall (Jake Long, Orlando Pace, and Ron Yary)
Ron Yary was drafted in 1968 and was a 7x Pro Bowl/6x All Pro

Orlando Pace was drafted in 1997 and was 7x Pro Bowl/5x All Pro (Super Bowl champ in his 2nd year)

Jake Long was drafted in 2008 and is a 4x Pro Bowl/2x All Pro (in 5 years... and still playing)



a pretty good list.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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Orlando Pace was the best LT prospect I've ever seen, and arguably the best that anybody has ever seen. I remember he had about a gazillion pancake blocks as a college junior.

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Old 03-25-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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does anyone think that Joeckell is at that level? It is debatable if he is the best LT in this draft or even the best tackle at Texas A&M.

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Old 03-25-2013, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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If they have balls they draft Lane Johnson. I think Lane Johnson is the best LT in this draft class.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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If they had balls they wouldnt draft an OT at #1 overall.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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This is also true.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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They obviously aren't doing it, but are they that far off from 4-3 personnel? They would have had Poe at DT, could have re-signed Dorsey cheap, drafted Floyd, and Ends on the market have been going really cheap. Derrick Johnson has played in it before, and it's not like Reid is a defensive guy anyway. That could have been the best DT rotation in the league, but then again maybe I just would have been excited watching Dorsey and Floyd side by side rushing the passer.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Strengths of the chiefs defense has been their linebacking unit.

A 4-3 would essentially move Hali and Houston from probowl OLB to undersized DE. Although Hali was poor against the run in 2012, he was awful as a 4-3DE.

derrick Johnson was wildly inconsistent as a 4-3 OLB. He really grew into a very good 3-4 W-ILB.

Finally, Dorsey is not a pass rusher. He played 3-tech in a 4-3 as well as NG, and he was given oppurtunities as a RDE in a 3-4. Hopefully he grows with the 49ers, but he was not getting it done with the chiefs.

In anycase, Sutton is going to run a hybrid defense like Rex Ryan. Thus there will be 3-4, and 4-3 looks....though I see the NFL moving toward a dime base.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Don't take what coaches say at face value.

Remember, after the draft every GM is gonna come out and claim they took "the best available player" with their selection. Or that the player they selected was "the highest on their board" etc.

It's all ********.
So damn true. All of these "leaks" from teams that are "really interested" in a player at a certain draft spot are a complete crock.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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If they have balls they draft Lane Johnson.
No, if they've got balls - they draft Warmack
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, another OG is what the Chiefs need. Forget the 3rd round pick they used on Asamoah or the 2nd round pick they used on Jeff Allen! Go for another OG for that OL! Makes perfect sense to me y'all.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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No, if they've got balls - they draft Warmack
Warmack 1st isn't even the worst part of that mock... He thinks Cyprien will be there in the 3rd round? Jets will be lucky if he lasts until pick 7 of the 2nd round.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, another OG is what the Chiefs need. Forget the 3rd round pick they used on Asamoah or the 2nd round pick they used on Jeff Allen! Go for another OG for that OL! Makes perfect sense to me y'all.
Allen fails. Particularly as a run blocker.

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Warmack 1st isn't even the worst part of that mock... He thinks Cyprien will be there in the 3rd round? Jets will be lucky if he lasts until pick 7 of the 2nd round.
Yeah he probably won't be around in the 3rd. But then he just may be one of those guys that falls and everybody's goin "Wow! [player name here] is still on the board!? WTF?" Happens every year like clockwork
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Lets clear some stuff up. Albert claims that he had "back spasms." Non-Factitious back pain can be caused by soft tissue (muscle, nerve, vascular) or hard tissue (bone).

Back spasms are a problem (either directly or indirectly) with soft tissue. An X-ray can diagnose problems with hard tissue while MRI can help diagnose problems with soft tissue.

Once again, there is no indication that this is a chronic condition. The fact that he improved with rest points to the fact that he likely has "simple back pain" which is the cause of 60% of back pain. Attached are some differential diagnosis from uptodate (link 1, 2) so please stop with the mis-information.
LOL, what "misinformation?" Nothing you said contradicts anything we said.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Don't take what coaches say at face value.

Remember, after the draft every GM is gonna come out and claim they took "the best available player" with their selection. Or that the player they selected was "the highest on their board" etc.

It's all ********.
That's fine, but there isn't any shortage of guys here who are convinced that Reid already thoroughly evaluated every QB prospect coming out and decided they weren't as a good as Alex Smith.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Smith is the guy they actually got. Reid would be a fool to say anything else. You don't go and say "we'll we really wanted this guy but couldn't get him so we were stuck with Alex Smith"; you fully back the QB who will actually be starting for you weather he was your first and only choice or your 5th choice.
But it absolutely is not proof that Reid is lying either. I personally believe he was resigned to getting Smith from the beginning.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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does anyone think that Joeckell is at that level? It is debatable if he is the best LT in this draft or even the best tackle at Texas A&M.
Not even close.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Allen fails. Particularly as a run blocker.
Yeah that guy we drafted last year totally sucked as a rookie. We should use the 1st overall pick on a guard.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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LOL, what "misinformation?" Nothing you said contradicts anything we said.
some are either stating directly or implying that Albert has chronic back problems OR that back problems are chronic.

There are multiple causes form back pain or even back spasm. I cant guarantee you that Albert doesnt have chronic problems, but I can guarantee that if he had a condition that caused chronic back problems the medical staff would know.

Albert and Dorsey have both stated that Albert is fine. I believe them.

Some might suspect that they are lying but that is unlikely. They wouldnt have franchised him if that was the case, and in no way will they be able to fool another team into trading for him if he had a chronic back problem (the other team will ask for old medical records as well as run their own tests).

I'm trying to keep the discussion simple, but if you would like we can go through every single potential cause of back spasms, but that will sidetrack this thread even more than it already is.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by findthedr View Post
some are either stating directly or implying that Albert has chronic back problems OR that back problems are chronic.

There are multiple causes form back pain or even back spasm. I cant guarantee you that Albert doesnt have chronic problems, but I can guarantee that if he had a condition that caused chronic back problems the medical staff would know.

Albert and Dorsey have both stated that Albert is fine. I believe them.

Some might suspect that they are lying but that is unlikely. They wouldnt have franchised him if that was the case, and in no way will they be able to fool another team into trading for him if he had a chronic back problem (the other team will ask for old medical records as well as run their own tests).

I'm trying to keep the discussion simple, but if you would like we can go through every single potential cause of back spasms, but that will sidetrack this thread even more than it already is.
I'll simplify it even more- you believe them, but that doesn't mean everyone else including potential trade partners believe them. In other words, there still is doubt or the perception of doubt. What you don't seem to grasp is that back problems are red flags, period. Albert will have to PROVE his back problems are a thing of the past, regardless of the cause.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:14 AM    (permalink
findthedr
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I'll simplify it even more- you believe them, but that doesn't mean everyone else including potential trade partners believe them.
They dont have to. Once again, they will have access to medical records and run their own tests.

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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
In other words, there still is doubt or the perception of doubt.
Among people who are ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
What you don't seem to grasp is that back problems are red flags, period.
Sure, if you lump all back problems into one category. It would be foolish to do such a thing. It would be just as foolish to label ALL injuries (from dehydration to a career ending injury) simply as an "injury." That too would be a "red flag." That being said, most educated people under stand that dehydration isnt a red flag or a career ending injury. That is also the case for back spasms for the vast majority of people.

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Albert will have to PROVE his back problems are a thing of the past, regardless of the cause.
You could say that about any injury. That being said, Albert was well enough to play the last game of the season and pass his physical.

If someone "pulls a hamstring" than they take rest and it gets better. People dont go on and on about a hamstring pull being a "red flag." For the vast majority of people (and likely Albert), back spasms are similar...a simple muskuloskeletal strain.

This isnt some arbitrary concept like you are trying to make it out to be. A good history and physical can illicit the cause of most back problems as well as a diagnosis. The rest can be confirmed with imaging and other tests.

The chiefs (and most teams) have access to orthopedists and sports medicine physicians. Diagnosing and treating back injuries are a major part of their practice, and is something that they are experts at.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Still think Albert is probably going to get traded for a 2nd round pick and future pick. Most likely Miami.

Then we will try to trade down, gain more picks, and draft Lane Johnson. If we can't move down, we'll just draft Joeckel.

I don't like that plan, but it's probably what will happen.
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