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Old 03-26-2013, 02:04 AM    (permalink
DrewyVuitton
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
Your concern is valid but you have to consider how often they'll actually face power formations. It's a worthwhile gamble if the percentages are low.
I think a lot of that depends on if you're leading or trailing.

Based on last season which had the Cowboys trailing in nearly every game, I doubt they're going to have 10-14 pt leads when they can pin their ears back.

I anticipate this team, which is coming back with the exact same offense, to have the exact same problems. basically trailing and facing more rushing attempts from their opponents.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DBNYDP View Post
Kiffin's team in Tampa just seems way more talented than this team. Hard to point to the lack of success of a running game against them because they had Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, and Lynch. Great players can hide the problems of scheme. I wouldn't say because they didn't struggle it meant small DEs could be effective against the run. That team has a lot going for it that Dallas doesn't.
Yes, the hall of fame players definitely helped. But even those Tampa teams had DE's that were about 15 lbs heavier, which is my concern on this team, specifically on the strong side going towards Spencer.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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Size doesn't matter if it's a guy like Ware that plays big. No tackle wants any part of Demarcus Ware all game.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DrewyVuitton View Post
Simeon Rice was 268 and an inch taller, Greg Spires was 265.

Their avg weight was 266.5, 14lbs larger than Ware & Spencer at 252.
.
Again, you're still using listed weight and sticking to that like the gospel. Do you really think they aren't going to gain 1 pound? Do you really think that come August they won't be at least 260? Just like Cameron Wake is probably closer to 270 then the 250 nfl.com still has him listed at. He gained at least 12lbs for his position change by August:


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He’s also 12 pounds bigger, as he prepares for more hand-to-hand combat with 300-pound tackles this year. Wake’s developing in other ways as well. He went from 14 sacks in 2010 to 8.5 last year, but his coaches say he was a better all-around player.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...roots-as-a-de/


Now mind you nfl.com didn't update his weight. But if he can gain 12 pounds, why are we using the weights for Ware & Spencer as gospel and continue to list it as if that is the exact weight they will be playing at, 252?
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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Since the hiring of Monte Kiffen, I've been suggesting that the Cowboys will have major issues in the run game due to lack of size at DE. I'm curious what non-fans of the team think about it.

http://bloggingthebeast.com/2013/03/...nd-the-league/

This article I stumbled across this weekend posts the avg weights of all the 4-3 DE duos in the league.

At the bottom of the list is Dallas with an average weight of 252 lbs between DeMarcus Ware & Anthony Spencer

The NFL average is 273.6 lbs

And at the top of the list are the Seahawks with an avg weight of 291.5 between their DE's

The Cowboys are reportedly looking to extend Spencer to a long term deal, essentially going all in on and tying themselves to this smallest DE duo in the league, what will be the outcome?

I'm predicting a failure. The Cowboys don't have the ability to jump out to large leads forcing the opposition into a pass-heavy comeback mode, allowing Ware & Spencer to do what they do best, which is rush the passer.

Instead, they'll be playing from behind, like they were all of last season, seeing heavy power formations with the opposition ramming the ball down their throat and having the players wear down as the season progresses.

Looking for thoughts from outside the Cowboy fan base on this to get unbiased opinions
I think it doesn't matter where Ware lines up. He'll be a beast anywhere in any scheme. If I were the Cowboys, I'd let Spencer play out the 2013 season on the franchise tag and see how he does as down lineman. Hope that helps.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Again, you're still using listed weight and sticking to that like the gospel. Do you really think they aren't going to gain 1 pound? Do you really think that come August they won't be at least 260? Just like Cameron Wake is probably closer to 270 then the 250 nfl.com still has him listed at. He gained at least 12lbs for his position change by August:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...roots-as-a-de/


Now mind you nfl.com didn't update his weight. But if he can gain 12 pounds, why are we using the weights for Ware & Spencer as gospel and continue to list it as if that is the exact weight they will be playing at, 252?
I think it is because Cover 2 DE's tend to be smaller and have no reason to gain weight since their top priority is rushing the passer. Saying these guys are likely bigger than their listed weight doesn't make it so, we simply will never know their true weights because teams aren't interested in releasing such information so it will always be just a guess.
Ware went from an OLB in a 3-4 to a basic 4-3 DE, so his gain in weight isn't surprising but I doubt his weight is close to 270 since he makes his living rushing the passer also.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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1. Ware's a better run player than he is a pass rusher.

2. The key to the Tampa 2 containing the run is the play of the defensive backs. It's the only reason anyone knows who John Lynch is.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Ware's best value is as a pass rusher, not a run stopper.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Again, you're still using listed weight and sticking to that like the gospel. Do you really think they aren't going to gain 1 pound? Do you really think that come August they won't be at least 260? Just like Cameron Wake is probably closer to 270 then the 250 nfl.com still has him listed at. He gained at least 12lbs for his position change by August:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...roots-as-a-de/


Now mind you nfl.com didn't update his weight. But if he can gain 12 pounds, why are we using the weights for Ware & Spencer as gospel and continue to list it as if that is the exact weight they will be playing at, 252?
No guarantee they maintain explosiveness after gaining weight. Also, weight fluctuation correlates with injuries.

Not saying it will happen but something to consider.

And no way Wake is 270. He's prob 260-265.

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Old 03-26-2013, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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I think it doesn't matter where Ware lines up. He'll be a beast anywhere in any scheme. If I were the Cowboys, I'd let Spencer play out the 2013 season on the franchise tag and see how he does as down lineman. Hope that helps.
This would be ideal. Obviously Ware is a cornerstone on the defense and will be playing a position that doesn't require as much size.

My concern is Spencer playing the strong side full time. He'll be the smallest 4-3 LDE in the league.

Teams who have guys like Wake playing the weak side pair a guy like Odrick on the opposite end to hold up vs the run, which is my primary gripe with Dallas' strategy.

Spencer doesn't compliment Ware. He's a worse version of Ware and should play on the weak side in the 4-3. This is a recipe for bottom 3rd of the league vs. the run.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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1. Ware's a better run player than he is a pass rusher.

2. The key to the Tampa 2 containing the run is the play of the defensive backs. It's the only reason anyone knows who John Lynch is.
Umm wut?

The best pure pass rusher over the last several years is better vs the run?

So he's basically Jesus?

Not accurate.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Size doesn't matter if it's a guy like Ware that plays big. No tackle wants any part of Demarcus Ware all game.
Yeah my concern isn't with Ware. Although he'll be on the smaller side, he's playing the weak side and is a much better fit for his conversion. So I agree with that.

The bigger issue is Spencer, who is going to play the strong side, which typically requires a bigger body to take the pounding. On average, they're 270+ with more length.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Spencer is a bit small for a LE, but he's not terribly small like Robert Mathis either. If they get good play from the interior, it won't be an issue. The real problem in places like Indy is that the DTs were worthless against the run, exacerbating the issue even more.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:29 AM    (permalink
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Spencer is a bit small for a LE, but he's not terribly small like Robert Mathis either. If they get good play from the interior, it won't be an issue. The real problem in places like Indy is that the DTs were worthless against the run, exacerbating the issue even more.
Ratliff is still pretty good when healthy and Hatcher is coming off a big year. They should be more successful than anything Indy had.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Everyone seems to be forgetting that Spencer was 261 @ the combine when he wasn't sure if he'd be a 43 DE of 34 OLB.

He also did 30 reps.

I really don't know if he's really been playing at 250 the past few years, he looks bigger.

Either way, he's had a lot of time to gain weight and muscle, he should be 265 no problem come the season
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Spencers home is at LDE, hes emerged as a pass rusher but has always been a beast against the run.

Ratliff was born to play UT or 34 DE....not 34 NT, he will be better, shame hes getting older now because earlier in his career he would have been amazing.

Ware is just an all around stud, he will have zero problems playing with his hand down, hell he may even break strahans record.

And they have good LBs in Lee and Carter, and claiborne and carr are both willing run defenders....they really just need to fix that horrible situation they have at safety
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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In Kiffen's methods...... your DE's are more than adequate.




The bigger question...... and the one you need to start asking yourself....... is what the heck are your DT's going to do in rushing the passer and creating havoc?



Seems like the biggest havoc those two you have starting can create, is pooping their pants. And that, friend, just ain't gonna cut it.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Umm wut?

The best pure pass rusher over the last several years is better vs the run?

So he's basically Jesus?

Not accurate.
Ware's not the best pure pass rusher over the last several years. His sack totals aren't an accurate reflection of his actual impact in the passing game. If it's not a sack, he's generally not making much of an impact in that area. He's not a big pressure guy.

What makes Ware a great player is that he's a complete one. He's dominant at the point of attack.

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