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Old 03-26-2013, 07:47 PM    (permalink
Hines
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Jesse Williams and Ziggy Ansah are the only two at the top of my head in which I'd hate.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
When people entertain the thought of Bills going for Nassib @ 8. **** I'll throw a little girl tantrum if we take him in round 2.

**** Cosell and his stupid thoughts.
^^^

My respect for Cosell's opinions went down oh about 20,000% after that crap he said about Nassib being the best QB in the draft. Absolutely ridiculous and clearly just a ploy to get his name out there for publicity's sake.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
No. People THOUGHT he was going to suck. They happened to be right. A bunch of people thought he was going to be decent too. Just because he didn't turn out well, doesn't mean the pick was bad. Also, not saying you should be happy about the pick. But people are talking about being seriously upset over a draft pick that makes perfect sense. They needed a QB, they took the best QB on the board by most accounts. They could have waited to take Andy Dalton, but they wouldn't have had AJ Green for him to throw to. They could have waited for Colin Kaepernick, but they wouldn't have had Jim Harbaugh calling plays to maximize his strengths. If they'd skipped QB altogether that year, they'd still be picking in the top 5 this year.

But QBs are a different animal. They are boosted due to desperation of the position. This is more to the guys that don't want Sharrif Floyd, the best pass rushing DT in this draft, to the Raiders AKA the 2nd worst pass rush team in the league that is losing it's best 2 pass rushing DTs. This is to the guy that "wouldn't be thrilled" with Chance Warmack, a consensus top 10 prospect, at the 20th pick for a team that started Chilo Rachal, Chris Spencer, and a UDFA at LG last year and has given up the most sacks over the last 4 years.
'Doesn't mean the pick was bad' to everyone else, not necessarily to the people that thought it was a bad pick, lol. This is a forum, don't come in here and tell people that they can't have their own opinions, it's stupid.

If someone doesn't think Sharrif Floyd is the best pass rushing DT in the draft and want's their team to pick someone they think is a lot better than him, who are you to tell people that they shouldn't be upset?
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Jesse Williams and Ziggy Ansah are the only two at the top of my head in which I'd hate.
Do you like Alameda Ta'amu/Hebron Fangupo at NT, and Jason Worilds/Chris Carter at OLB that much? Or do you simply dislike Williams and Ansah?
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Do you like Alameda Ta'amu/Hebron Fangupo at NT, and Jason Worilds/Chris Carter at OLB that much? Or do you simply dislike Williams and Ansah?
Williams just doesn't do much for me. He's meh. Ziggy is just a workout warrior IMO. I just don't like him and the team needs sure things in the first, not projects who will take 2-3 years to maybe develop.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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If EJ Manuel is an eagle....horrible things will happen. Regardless of what round it is.
Well....apparently someone in this thread doesn't recognize greatness!!


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Old 03-26-2013, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
'Doesn't mean the pick was bad' to everyone else, not necessarily to the people that thought it was a bad pick, lol. This is a forum, don't come in here and tell people that they can't have their own opinions, it's stupid.

If someone doesn't think Sharrif Floyd is the best pass rushing DT in the draft and want's their team to pick someone they think is a lot better than him, who are you to tell people that they shouldn't be upset?
I never said people couldn't have their opinions. But at some point, popular opinion has to mean something. If someone doesn't think Sharrif Floyd is the best pass rushing DT in the draft, then they are most likely disagreeing just to disagree. Because while it is not a fact that he is, it is the popular opinion, which is the best you can get in this type of situation.

And there's a difference between wanting your team to pick someone other than him than it is to be upset to the point that throwing the remote thru your tv is even a thought crossing your mind. Pass rush is clearly one of the Raiders' biggest issues. DT is the biggest hole on their defense. It's very logical that they take the best DT on the board, who is also rated very high. Don't understand why anyone would be that upset about it is all I'm saying. I understand being upset about drafting Geno Smith AND keeping Carson Palmer AND keeping Terrell Pryor. I understand being upset if they take Manti Te'o #3, because he's no where near the 3rd best player in the draft. But the draft is all about taking the best player available that fits a need on your team. Floyd to the Raiders and Warmack to the Bears are as close to no-brainers as it gets. If you have other expectations that's fine, but to dismiss those picks as poor because you have a hunch that player isn't going to be that good makes no sense.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Williams just doesn't do much for me. He's meh. Ziggy is just a workout warrior IMO. I just don't like him and the team needs sure things in the first, not projects who will take 2-3 years to maybe develop.
Your position on Ansah is silly. He was a truly excellent player, and I could tell from the first moments I saw him this year, not having a clue who he was. Further watching revealed very few flaws in his game. He is the least raw player I've seen get the 'project player' adjective in recent years. In fact, it is highly encouraging that someone with that little experience is where he is. Fact is, he's a natural. Being an excellent athlete does not make you a 'workout warrior' either. Anyone can fail, but there is no reason to believe that he has any special reason to fail.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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Dion Jordan because I have concerns about his pass-rushing ability
Jarvis Jones
Fisher at #2
Margus Hunt
David Amerson
Matt Scott
Devin Taylor
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
I never said people couldn't have their opinions. But at some point, popular opinion has to mean something. If someone doesn't think Sharrif Floyd is the best pass rushing DT in the draft, then they are most likely disagreeing just to disagree. Because while it is not a fact that he is, it is the popular opinion, which is the best you can get in this type of situation.

And there's a difference between wanting your team to pick someone other than him than it is to be upset to the point that throwing the remote thru your tv is even a thought crossing your mind. Pass rush is clearly one of the Raiders' biggest issues. DT is the biggest hole on their defense. It's very logical that they take the best DT on the board, who is also rated very high. Don't understand why anyone would be that upset about it is all I'm saying. I understand being upset about drafting Geno Smith AND keeping Carson Palmer AND keeping Terrell Pryor. I understand being upset if they take Manti Te'o #3, because he's no where near the 3rd best player in the draft. But the draft is all about taking the best player available that fits a need on your team. Floyd to the Raiders and Warmack to the Bears are as close to no-brainers as it gets. If you have other expectations that's fine, but to dismiss those picks as poor because you have a hunch that player isn't going to be that good makes no sense.
Within two sentences you say "i'm not saying people can't have their own opinion" and "if someone doesn't think Sharrif Floyd is the best DT, they are just disagreeing to disagree"...

Which one is it? There's a massive contradiction there.

You make it sound like popular opinion is always right and that 'popular opinion' means it's unanimous. Just because it isn't what everyone else agrees with, doesn't mean it's wrong. That's why teams have their own scouts and have more than one. They don't just use everyone else's opinion and it's good to have more than one point of view.

What you're saying is a complete joke.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Falcons.

Do not want Teo, of course.

Do not want a tight end.

Do not want a defensive tackle. I feel that is a position much easier to find suitable players than end.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Your position on Ansah is silly. He was a truly excellent player, and I could tell from the first moments I saw him this year, not having a clue who he was. Further watching revealed very few flaws in his game. He is the least raw player I've seen get the 'project player' adjective in recent years. In fact, it is highly encouraging that someone with that little experience is where he is. Fact is, he's a natural. Being an excellent athlete does not make you a 'workout warrior' either. Anyone can fail, but there is no reason to believe that he has any special reason to fail.
So a guy who has played not even a handful of years of football and wasn't even that productive isn't raw? I'm sorry but I don't want him on the Steelers with their first pick. Second round? Sure. But I'm not spending a first rounder on such a project.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to lay it down right now. Lamarr Houston will be a better 3-tech (and already is) than Sharrif Floyd ever will be.

I will freaking throw my tv out a window if the Raiders draft Floyd. He is absolutely not special even in the least. One would think the best pass rushing DT would be able to get to the QB 5 times in HIS ENTIRE ******* CAREER.

No. Nope. No. Uhn-uh. No sir. Do not want. Absolutely not. Get him away from me.


This guy is more Gerard Warren than Warren Sapp.

And why the **** would a team with nearly the worst pass rush in the NFL decide the best thing to do to fix its pass rush is grab an interior lineman????

Hey, I have trouble running the football, I'm going to grab a mobile QB.
I'm having trouble stopping the run, I'm going to grab a CB who can tackle really well.
I'm having trouble pass blocking, I'm going to grab a great blocking TE.
I'm having trouble rushing the passer, I'm going to grab a DT who has 4.5 sacks in 3 seasons in college football.

Or you can do the ane thing and grab a rush 'backer or DE.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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I will freaking throw my tv out a window if the Raiders draft Floyd. He is absolutely not special even in the least. One would think the best pass rushing DT would be able to get to the QB 5 times in HIS ENTIRE ******* CAREER.

No. Nope. No. Uhn-uh. No sir. Do not want. Absolutely not. Get him away from me.

College production is directly proportional to NFL production I hear. You must be smarter than every scout in the nfl ever since they all have him rated as a top 5 prospect but you can see past what they get paid to see and evaluate him as garbage. Your insight is duly noted.

Ps- he was a one year starter so saying that he only had 5 sacks in his career isn't really saying much to add to your point. I believe he had 0.5 sacks less than Dion Jordan last season, who I assume you'd prefer your raiders would select instead?
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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College production is directly proportional to NFL production I hear. You must be smarter than every scout in the nfl ever since they all have him rated as a top 5 prospect but you can see past what they get paid to see and evaluate him as garbage. Your insight is duly noted.

Ps- he was a one year starter so saying that he only had 5 sacks in his career isn't really saying much to add to your point. I believe he had 0.5 sacks less than Dion Jordan last season, who I assume you'd prefer your raiders would select instead?
Did Sharrif Floyd cover slot receivers 40% of the time?
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Sorry NIP, we aren't allowed our own opinions around here. If you don't just agree with the consensus, you're doing it wrong!
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Did Sharrif Floyd cover slot receivers 40% of the time?
He was getting double teamed more than that. Also he had 6.5 sacks in 2012 according to cbssports, along with 13 TFLs, both of which were better than Dion Jordan. So not sure where you got the 5 career sacks stat from...
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Sorry NIP, we aren't allowed our own opinions around here. If you don't just agree with the consensus, you're doing it wrong!
And I'm going with the consensus by saying Dion Jordan is overrated? His logic was based on nonsense stats, and I pointed that out. He's entitled to his opinion but if its basis is flawed then shouldn't be re-evaluate?
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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So a guy who has played not even a handful of years of football and wasn't even that productive isn't raw? I'm sorry but I don't want him on the Steelers with their first pick. Second round? Sure. But I'm not spending a first rounder on such a project.
Sacks /= production
Lack of sacks /= lack of production

He produced at a very high level for a very good defense playing against a significant number of good teams. He was always the best player on the field. He was powerful. He held up at the point of attack. He was fast. He was agile. He was always where he needed to be. He successfully played several different positions.

62 tackles
13 tfls
4.5 sacks
9 pass breakups
1 pick

Not amazing stats, but not bad even if they were truly reflective of the quality of his play, and they severely understate it. Your objection to Ansah is still silly, and he is better now than most high end non-project players you may care to mention. Would I take a project that is already better than the other options? Always.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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He was getting double teamed more than that. Also he had 6.5 sacks in 2012 according to cbssports, along with 13 TFLs, both of which were better than Dion Jordan. So not sure where you got the 5 career sacks stat from...
Both ESPN and Scott have him listed at 3 sacks in 2012. Cfbstats.com also has the same. Didn't have a single sack until the final game of the regular season.

And only notched a sack in 1 game in 2011--against OSU when he got 1.5.

Cbssports is the outlier there.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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And I'm going with the consensus by saying Dion Jordan is overrated? His logic was based on nonsense stats, and I pointed that out. He's entitled to his opinion but if its basis is flawed then shouldn't be re-evaluate?
You must be smarter than every scout in the nfl ever since they all have Dion Jordan rated as a top 10 prospect but you can see past what they get paid to see and evaluate him as garbage. Your insight is duly noted.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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My objection to Floyd goes far beyond the stats. It just so happens to be that I find it absurd that a guy who is great at getting to the QB can't actually get to the QB.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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You must be smarter than every scout in the nfl ever since they all have Dion Jordan rated as a top 10 prospect but you can see past what they get paid to see and evaluate him as garbage. Your insight is duly noted.
I never said he was garbage I said he's overrated. His evaluation is based on his potential and not his current ability, which is nothing. His game tape of pass rushing is all running around tackles that are way too slow off the snap. He would need some amazing coaching to develop. I also haven't heard any scouts say that he's a better prospect than Floyd.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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My objection to Floyd goes far beyond the stats. It just so happens to be that I find it absurd that a guy who is great at getting to the QB can't actually get to the QB.
I'd like to see you get 6.5 sacks in a 13 game season as a 300+ lb DT in the SEC.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to see you get 6.5 sacks in a 13 game season as a 300+ lb DT in the SEC.
And you continue to throw out false stats. 3.0 in 2012.

Also, I'm not being mocked in the top 3 of the 2013 NFL draft.

I see you have conceded the argument with the red herrings now.
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