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Old 03-17-2013, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I'm no cap expert either I just know the net cap loss/gain is the guaranteed money remaining vs the cap number for this year. Apparently the 3 1m offseason bonuses don't count toward the cap so while his cap total is 9m for this year there's 12m in guarantees. So I'm guessing since only 1m of it was paid by us so far, if we trade before the other bonuses he'd be -1mil toward the cap. Very strange
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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From what Woody and Idzik talked about today and just how Idzik was talking about worrying Revis was going too hard, it makes me think that they're going to re-sign him haha. But we shall see. No point worrying until it becomes a problem. I'll just focus on the draft...

Which, BTW, is very confusing. My rankings are all over the place. At least for WRs, RBs, and OLBs. Just about everyone has a question mark and it's hard to gauge if they'll translate well.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, the draft is also particularly interesting because I don't know what defensive scheme we'll be running in 2014. A guy like Dion Jordan is much more appealing to me in Rex's scheme with his varied skill set and pass rushing upside. I think you give Rex a guy like that and he gets a lot out of him. We move to a more read and react 3-4 or a not blitz heavy 4-3 and I don't like him as much.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Even though I don't like Greene, I am very surprised he got less money than DeVito. Seeing what DeVito got, I'm not surprised we weren't even really in consideration. Good for him.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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They got Barnes for peanuts. Not a bad deal at all. Still curious about the cap situation, hopefully more info comes out soon.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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They got Barnes for peanuts. Not a bad deal at all. Still curious about the cap situation, hopefully more info comes out soon.
Yeah Barnes was a great pickup. Him + Jones/Mingo/Ansah would be a considerable upgrade on our edge rush in recent years (which isn't saying much obviously). Izdik has impressed me so far, just hope he drafts well and we'll be on our way.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Per Rotoworld the Bucs are willing to give up 2014 first and second round picks for Revis. I see the benefit to holding out and seeing if another team gets involved/they can get more, but that's a deal I could definitely live with.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Per Rotoworld the Bucs are willing to give up 2014 first and second round picks for Revis. I see the benefit to holding out and seeing if another team gets involved/they can get more, but that's a deal I could definitely live with.
This situation REEKS.

There is no reason on the PLANET Idzik wouldn't take that deal. That's an AMAZING deal.

It's Woody/Rex ******* everything up thinking they need to get something immediately to appease the fans/compete (lol) this year. Rex is such a lame duck... I just don't know what they're doing.

That's New York for you. Re-building is unacceptable here.

Hopefully Idzik can explain to those morons that a 2014 1st + 2nd is WAY more valuable than a 2013 1st (which they aren't even offering but the Jets are for some dumb ******* reason holding out for).

Even if the Jets are OK and the Bucs make the playoffs, 4 picks in the top 2 rounds is major ammo in a class that will probably have decent QBs...
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't mind sitting and waiting on it. Granted, I'd probably take the deal. But there's so much time between now and the 2014 draft, and they've got control over Revis for like another 7 months.

If that's their offer, I doubt it's going to just go away. Don't see the harm in at least waiting a little while as long as they're confident the offer won't come off the table. And I don't see why it would.

Granted there's been all sorts of info out and half of it is bound to be untrue.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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Were absolutely not getting better than a 2014 1st and 2nd, if the Bucs offered that then I give up on this organization, it's an absolute joke if they turned that down are you kidding me????
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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According to ProFootballCentral Fred Davis is coming in for a visit with the Jets after leaving his visit with Buffalo. Would make sense to me if it was on a Laron Landry type of 1 year deal since he would probably be too pricey for us on a longer term contract. I think he would be a great fit in Mornhinweg's offense, if he can stay on the field. Sort of a slightly more athletic Dustin Keller.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Would be very happy with Fred Davis, I'd imagine he'd come reasonable at this point. Like all of the band aid signings, makes it easier to draft BPA. Bring in another okay guard, outside linebacker, and a couple of safeties and they'll be good to go heading into the draft.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Fred Davis would be a great signing. He's a slight upgrade from Dustin Keller IMO!

Also, can we trade Revis already?!?!? Just take the 2014 1st FFS
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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I think signing Davis would be a good deal for the Jets. However, Buffalo is also bringing him in and would have more money to throw at him. The Jets might have a tough time getting him to sign.

As for the Revis, I'm shocked that a deal hasn't happened. I agree Rob that taking the 1st and 2nd next year should be a done deal. That could give us the ammo to trade up for a better QB prospect. It wouldn't surprise me if the Jets want to grab a "Jordan/Jones/Mingo" type with the #9, and the reason they are holding out for TB's #13 is to grab a guy like Eifert. The Davis signing would probably change that thinking though.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Were absolutely not getting better than a 2014 1st and 2nd, if the Bucs offered that then I give up on this organization, it's an absolute joke if they turned that down are you kidding me????
I seriously doubt the Bucs made that type of offer, more likely a 2nd or a 3rd to take his contract off the Jet's books. Nobody is going to pay a 1st and a 2nd, and also be able to meet Revis' demands for QB money.

Revis would have to be signed long term for a reasonable amount of money before he is likely trade-able so I seriously doubt that the Jets can trade him. If Revis sticks to his guns for that type of money when the cap has gone completely flat, the Jets will likely have to cut him next year and get nothing in return.

I'm also surprised that the Jet fans aren't thinking that your team will likely draft offensive players to give your QB at least some tools to work with, I think Ryan has lost some say in the draft and his usual pattern of taking defensive players may not hold true this draft.
Outside of a decent OL, your offense looks anemic at a time when offensive football is dominating the league. I could easily see the Jets using their top 3 picks on offensive players, I think your defense would still be solid.
I cannot see any way that the Jets will be competitive without an influx of offensive talent.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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I seriously doubt the Bucs made that type of offer, more likely a 2nd or a 3rd to take his contract off the Jet's books. Nobody is going to pay a 1st and a 2nd, and also be able to meet Revis' demands for QB money.

He was simply commenting on the speculation, that's a rumor that was on some pretty legitimate websites. Nothing wrong with that. Also, a 2014 first and second is basically equivalent to a 2013 second and third. And there's no "taking his contract off the Jets' books". He actually costs the Jets more against the cap this year if they trade him, and they only have him under contract for this season.

Revis would have to be signed long term for a reasonable amount of money before he is likely trade-able so I seriously doubt that the Jets can trade him. If Revis sticks to his guns for that type of money when the cap has gone completely flat, the Jets will likely have to cut him next year and get nothing in return.

Supposedly the Bucs already have agreed to terms with Revis, it's just a hold up in terms of the compensation the Jets would receive. I'm fairly confident they'll be able to trade him. He's a unique player, which people seem to be forgetting. Also, his contract will expire after this season provided he doesn't hold out (and he won't hold out for that reason). So they won't be cutting him. And although it's not quite the same, they'd almost certainly be getting a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2015 for losing him in free agency.

I'm also surprised that the Jet fans aren't thinking that your team will likely draft offensive players to give your QB at least some tools to work with, I think Ryan has lost some say in the draft and his usual pattern of taking defensive players may not hold true this draft.
Outside of a decent OL, your offense looks anemic at a time when offensive football is dominating the league. I could easily see the Jets using their top 3 picks on offensive players, I think your defense would still be solid.
I cannot see any way that the Jets will be competitive without an influx of offensive talent.

There are a few things wrong with this portion of the post. One, it's pretty clear "our QB" is a lame duck who may or may not even start this season. Nobody's concerned with giving Sanchez tools to work with, they're more concerned with finding a new quarterback.

Additionally, the mindset right now is not to be competitive this year, but to build a long-term contender because next year is looking pretty grim for the Jets. That being the case, it's more important to find value in the draft than to draft for certain positions. I think all else equal most if not all of us would prefer to draft offensive players early because the offense is terrible. But the value for offensive players at positions the Jets need help at just doesn't really match the 9th pick in the draft at this point. Geno Smith is the only QB worth considering at that point, and he'll probably be gone and has some question marks anyway. Tyler Eifert is good, but probably not top ten pick worthy. Cordarrelle Patterson is extremely talented, but also could easily bust. Tavon Austin is electric, but tiny. You don't draft guards or right tackles in the top 10 more often than not, and the Jets are alright at right tackle anyway. And there's no RB worth the pick. I just don't see any direction they can realistically go in there without reaching.
Thoughts above.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Thoughts above.
Great breakdown Derza.

He's a unique player, which people seem to be forgetting.



Exactly! I read posts on all different sites and anyone not a Jet fan, doesn't seem to be sold on his talent. They site his injury, holdout, and $$ wanted. That's all. Like a QB can change an entire offense, Revis changes an entire defense.



Additionally, the mindset right now is not to be competitive this year, but to build a long-term contender because next year is looking pretty grim for the Jets. That being the case, it's more important to find value in the draft than to draft for certain positions. I think all else equal most if not all of us would prefer to draft offensive players early because the offense is terrible. But the value for offensive players at positions the Jets need help at just doesn't really match the 9th pick in the draft at this point. Geno Smith is the only QB worth considering at that point, and he'll probably be gone and has some question marks anyway. Tyler Eifert is good, but probably not top ten pick worthy. Cordarrelle Patterson is extremely talented, but also could easily bust. Tavon Austin is electric, but tiny. You don't draft guards or right tackles in the top 10 more often than not, and the Jets are alright at right tackle anyway. And there's no RB worth the pick. I just don't see any direction they can realistically go in there without reaching.



As much as I'd like to see the whole offense rebuilt with every pick the Jets have, like Derza states, #9 would be a reach for any skill player this year. Trading down, gaining picks, and grabbing guys like Eifert, Patterson, Austin, etc. would be perfect. But, as stated by Jet posters here before, this might not be an easy draft to trade down.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Yup, if they trade down it's a different story and that'd be awesome. Every year we say we hope it'll happen and it never does though, so there's only so much time it's worth speculating on what could happen if we trade down and take Eifert or Austin, for example.

Also, QB money is relative. We're not talking elite QB money for Revis. If he makes 12-13 million a year, which is what speculation is he will make and seems realistic, that's somewhere in between Alex Smith money and elite QB money (and much closer to Alex Smith). Top guys are getting like $20 million plus. Revis isn't even asking for that and will probably end up with around 60, 65% of it. Heck, it's Mark Sanchez money. Maybe it's QB money, but you're not getting Tom Brady for what Revis is going to get paid.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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True. Carson Palmer $$$

Which Oakland gave up a 1st and a 2nd the next year for. Teams will do these deals. It's naive to think TB wouldn't make their rumored deal with the Jets.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Solid points Derza222, looking it over, I'd have to agree that unless you can trade down, it might be difficult to take an offensive player at #9 although I've heard numerous reports on NFL.com that the difference between the #5 picks in this year's draft and the #25 pick is minor so there could be quite a few real shockers on draft day when teams actually pick. If so, the Jets may indeed take a surprise at #9 if they cannot trade down and the value may not be much of a stretch if they go offense. People look at mocks and assume that there is a huge value difference in selecting somebody above where mockers have the top 10 going, but in this year's draft that may turnout to be a fallacy.

If defense is your team's first round pick, do you think they concentrate on offense in the rest of the draft?
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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If defense is your team's first round pick, do you think they concentrate on offense in the rest of the draft?
Let's assume they take an OLB at #9, which I think is a fair assumption so we can speculate the rest of the draft. Let's also assume that Idzik and co. are not impressed by any of the QBs available and will go into camp with Sanchez/Garrard.

In no order, during the next 3 rounds (rookies who will need to be solid contributors), I think they have to focus on OG, S, and TE. I feel that those are our biggest holes at the moment.

It's hard to predict rounds 5-7, but provided that the 3 positions above are filled, I'd like to see them focus on adding depth to the defensive back unit, taking a shot at a playmaker (WR/RB), and adding depth to our defensive line.

I would be pleased with this draft strategy.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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Solid points Derza222, looking it over, I'd have to agree that unless you can trade down, it might be difficult to take an offensive player at #9 although I've heard numerous reports on NFL.com that the difference between the #5 picks in this year's draft and the #25 pick is minor so there could be quite a few real shockers on draft day when teams actually pick. If so, the Jets may indeed take a surprise at #9 if they cannot trade down and the value may not be much of a stretch if they go offense. People look at mocks and assume that there is a huge value difference in selecting somebody above where mockers have the top 10 going, but in this year's draft that may turnout to be a fallacy.

If defense is your team's first round pick, do you think they concentrate on offense in the rest of the draft?
I don't think they go defense in each of the first two rounds, but I wouldn't be shocked either. When we get into the mid-rounds I think it becomes a BPA at a long-term position of need kind of deal.

Honestly, if you look at the team right now there aren't long-term starters at many positions. All over the place - QB, RB, at least one WR spot, TE, both guard spots, arguably RT, both OLB spots, one ILB spot, arguably a CB spot, and both S spots. And hopefully some guys will step up at some of those positions this season, but they need to bring in depth and starters all over the team. On top of that, the team is just not going to be that good this year. They are making some band aid moves at some spots and can tread water, and like I said hopefully some guys step up and really claim long-term starting spots, but this is not a well put together football team.

With all of that being said, I don't think there's really one way or another that they are going to draft. I see them taking the best player available at a spot where they don't have someone on the roster they feel good about moving forward. This is a multi year rebuild, and they're not going to do themselves any favors by avoiding drafting players at positions where they're slightly weaker this year when there's a better player at another position that will be a question mark next year when we get into the mid-rounds. I think Idzik is smart enough to know that, too, and think that's how it's going to go.

So, long story short I think they could go in any number directions. All defense would surprise me a bit, all offense would not, but I really think it's just going to be a BPA at a position of long-term need all draft long, with more of an emphasis on positions that they need starters at in the first 2-3 rounds. But that could be offense or defense.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Fred Davis cancelled his Jets visit...
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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I agree Derza. The holes on the roster, both short-term and long-term are glaring and visible throughout the roster. BPA should likely be the direction throughout the draft, at worst to bring added competition to positions, and hopefully hit on a few. The outlook has to be beyond just the current roster, and finding long-term solutions.

With that said, there are some holes that will need to be addressed at some point, otherwise this season could be embarrassing...unfortunately.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Apparently the Seahawks have an "imminent" deal in place, to trade Flynn to an unknown team right now. Oakland has had the most recent rumors in connection to this. But I don't think you can rule the Jets out with Idzik's Seattle ties. Word is that he could be had for a 6th round pick. Anyone heard more on this? Haters on this? Or good deal for the Jets?
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