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Old 03-25-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChiFan24 View Post
You're right, he's a totally flawless prospect. Nobody should ever question anything about him and the Chiefs would be crazy not to pick him #1.

If anything, Patterson is the prospect I need to see more of. I've seen Tavon. His college tape is breathtaking. His ability to cut at full speed is second to none. But people get too excited over guys like Tavon and they don't ask themselves what Tavon can realistically do in an NFL offense. West Virginia had absolutely zero problem getting the ball into his hands with a bunch of stuff that doesn't really translate to the NFL - bubble screens, jet sweep shovel passes, etc against embarrassingly bad Big XII defenses that never have any interest in jamming/tackling anyone. And yes, there is most likely plenty of readily available tape with Austin allowing the ball to get into his body rather than snatching the ball out of the air, and as a result double catching or dropping the ball, etc. He doesn't always do a good job of tracking the ball in the air, and he certainly doesn't make many contested catches. I don't think he's Percy Harvin because I thought of Harvin as a natural WR that can make plays anywhere on the field, while I think of Austin as a natural RB whose ability will be most valuable in the slot. I don't see a scenario where he can be anything but a slot receiver and a gadget running back.

With all that said, I don't even dislike Tavon. Never said I did. But don't think I see the limitless potential that others do, and I certainly don't trust my Bears to use him correctly.
I guess you haven't seen Sproles in New Orleans, Harvin last season on the Vikings or the Redskins offense last season.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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From a physical tool stand point obviously Patterson is better, Big + Fast.

But I just think Patterson is one of those 1st round WR's that will never realize his potential. Too raw and the NFL passing game is extremely complex. He struggle running routes and catching the ball when his back is to the QB. Just a lot of work. Im not saying he wont be great, Im just saying he is a bigger work in progress than people think. You will have to get him involved with end arounds and quick screens if you want to see imediate production from him. But I dont think he will be a true #1 for a while. Maybe 3 years.

Austin can come in, and be a 75-85 catch guy immediately IMO. Can run option routes and play ever WR position.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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I would liken Austin to Desean Jackson and Patterson to Dez Bryant. I'd rather have Bryant, but Austin is an intriguing player who might fizzle because of his lack of size.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bornnraisedwhodat View Post
Austin can come in, and be a 75-85 catch guy immediately IMO. Can run option routes and play ever WR position.
I don't agree with this, like, at all, but I like that your projection for the guy matches the 1st round grade you have on him. It just bothers me when people say, "wow, think of all the things an offense can do with him" and that makes him a first round pick. It kind of reminds me of the McCluster situation (obviously Austin is a more gifted athlete). What exactly are those "things?" Do you think he can play outside? Limited to the slot? How many times are you going to hand him the ball? Is he Harvin? Is he Sproles? Can he be Wes Welker or DeSean Jackson? Or something else entirely? And after you've determined what you think he is, you have to answer why, exactly, the value of that is greater than the value of another available player at that pick. I just get the feeling people aren't totally going through that process with Austin, which is part of what makes me uneasy.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChiFan24 View Post
I don't agree with this, like, at all, but I like that your projection for the guy matches the 1st round grade you have on him. It just bothers me when people say, "wow, think of all the things an offense can do with him" and that makes him a first round pick. It kind of reminds me of the McCluster situation (obviously Austin is a more gifted athlete). What exactly are those "things?" Do you think he can play outside? Limited to the slot? How many times are you going to hand him the ball? Is he Harvin? Is he Sproles? Can he be Wes Welker or DeSean Jackson? Or something else entirely? And after you've determined what you think he is, you have to answer why, exactly, the value of that is greater than the value of another available player at that pick. I just get the feeling people aren't totally going through that process with Austin, which is part of what makes me uneasy.
As a Bears fan, look at all the things the team has tried to do with Hester the last few years. WR screens, reverses, get him in the open field on a clearout, throw the ball downfield to him. Now picture that being done by a player that's faster and has actual WR skills.

I don't think Austin is limited to the slot at all. He might be limited to flanker on the outside, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. He does a lot of the things DeSean Jackson does. Jackson's success makes him a 1st round pick, like it or not. What makes him more valuable than another pick at that spot is the fact that this is an offensive league. You win games by scoring points, and mainly thru the air. Austin obviously helps with that. No defender does. An offensive lineman will help too, but lack of OL help hasn't seemed to stop Aaron Rodgers from breaking NFL passing records every season.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Why would Austin be any different than what Wes Welker does from the slot?

They are a similar size and both are dynamic after the catch if Austin develops his route running then why not?

Welker and DeSean Jackson are both similar sizes and they have been productive.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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Funny because I've been telling people that Austin is Jackson and Welker in one.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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Why would Austin be any different than what Wes Welker does from the slot?

They are a similar size and both are dynamic after the catch if Austin develops his route running then why not?

Welker and DeSean Jackson are both similar sizes and they have been productive.

If Wes Welker had Tavon Austin's physical tools, he'd be league MVP with the number of touches he gets in NE.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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From a physical tool stand point obviously Patterson is better, Big + Fast.

But I just think Patterson is one of those 1st round WR's that will never realize his potential. Too raw and the NFL passing game is extremely complex. He struggle running routes and catching the ball when his back is to the QB. Just a lot of work. Im not saying he wont be great, Im just saying he is a bigger work in progress than people think. You will have to get him involved with end arounds and quick screens if you want to see imediate production from him. But I dont think he will be a true #1 for a while. Maybe 3 years.

Austin can come in, and be a 75-85 catch guy immediately IMO. Can run option routes and play ever WR position.
Agree with this 100%. For someone who is so big and fast, Patterson doesn't separate that well - if the price for him is a top 15 pick, then it's too rich for me.

Austin is T.Y. Hilton without the durability concerns - can even play some RB in certain situations. Impact player.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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It's crazy to think if Austin was 6 feet tall that he would be a lock for the top 10.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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It's crazy to think if Austin was 6 feet tall that he would be a lock for the top 10.
I he weren't 170 pounds he would be a lock for the top 15.

Everyone who compares him to Percy Harvin misses the fact that Harvin is 20+ pounds bigger.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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austin is crazy strong for his size....but hes a far cry from percys beastliness





http://i0.wp.com/img338.imageshack.u...size=356%2C422

bro, do you even lift?
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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It's crazy to think if Austin was 6 feet tall that he would be a lock for the top 10.
This. The problem with Austin is he gives his QB a much smaller target to hit considering his catch radius is affected by his size/ limited vert. That puts some pressure on his QB to locate the ball more then you would with a guy who is 6'2 with a 37 in vert. That being said he is the best open field runner I've seen in college since Reggie Bush and he is a matchup nightmare when given a two way release out of the slot. He creates spacing with his speed in and out of his brakes and is a master of YAC. Austin is a much better route runner then most give him credit for and he does a nice job of catching the ball away from his body. The most telling fact of his success at the next level for me is his willingness to get North and South as a ball carrier. Where a lot of speedy guys fail in the NFL is trying to strictly run sideline to sideline instead of attacking the defense. I understand the concerns about developing as an outside threat once he has to deal with press coverage but I think he has the strentgth to hand fight off the LOS.

As for Patterson, he is the prototypical outside WR in terms of size and athleticism. Like Austin his best asset is being able to break down defenders in space coupled with his ability to beat defenders on the lob ball. That combination is hard to defend when a defender has to play both aspects of his game. Also like Autsin, Patterson was used on a number of gaget plays out of the backfield to use his natural playmaking abilities with the ball in his hands. As a wide reciever he has a limited route tree and mostly ran the 9 and deep corners at Tennessee. How fast he can pick up an offense would be a concern of mine if I was going to draft him. Also, he made a good amount of catches with his body and had some drops that should have been routine catches. As talented as he is with the ball in his hands he tends to dance to much for my liking and will attempt to reverse field to get to the outside. That won't happen at the next level, if he stops his momentum or turns he back on the defense he will see more 5 more losses then 30 yard gains.

I think that Patterson has the higher ceiling of the two and profiles as a player with Dez Bryant type potential. Austin is more "nfl ready" but becomes less of a factor the smaller the field gets. For the Bears specifically I think Austin is the better fit considering Marshall/ Jeffery are big targets who can move the chains and push safties deep while he finds open field underneath. Either way I think you get the potential for a dynamic player.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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So now that the draft is less than a week away, we have seen Austin shoot up draft boards. Early this offseason I was thinking he would be a nice player for the Rams to pick up with their 2nd round pick, aka this year's TY Hilton. He has since shot up through the 1st round and mocks have had him as high as the top 10. Usually when this happens, the hype settles and the player is taken somewhere in between.

So when all is said and done, where does Austin go? Will he be there when the Rams pick at #16? Who might take him in the top 15?
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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So when all is said and done, where does Austin go? Will he be there when the Rams pick at #16? Who might take him in the top 15?
I think Austin's got too much buzz to fall out of the top 10. I can very easily see the Jets take him at 9 but I also think somebody (Rams?) trades up ahead of them to take Austin.

What I'm wondering about more though is if Patterson is still a lock for the 1st round of if he's a risk to slip to the 2nd? I saw Josh Norris' mock today that did not include Patterson in the top 32.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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I think Austin's got too much buzz to fall out of the top 10. I can very easily see the Jets take him at 9 but I also think somebody (Rams?) trades up ahead of them to take Austin.

What I'm wondering about more though is if Patterson is still a lock for the 1st round of if he's a risk to slip to the 2nd? I saw Josh Norris' mock today that did not include Patterson in the top 32.
Yeah, Patterson has definitely gotten the beast/bust label. I personally think he is going to be a star if he can learn to catch with his hands, although I think he needs a couple of years to develop. This is the main reason why I prefer Austin to him for the Rams. We need a young player who will produce now.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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Austin won't be available so this conversation is meaningless. Are the Bears ever going to get an offensive line?
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Austin won't be available so this conversation is meaningless. Are the Bears ever going to get an offensive line?
Yeah, the talk now is that the Rams may move up to get him.

I recall last year several people on this board had Decastro as high as 10-15, and every Bears fan said there was no way he slipped past them.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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Austin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Patterson
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