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Old 03-22-2013, 12:13 AM    (permalink
Hurricanes25
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Originally Posted by derza222 View Post
Still want no part of Jarvis Jones. That pro day performance just confirms what I saw when I watched his games.
I was a fan but that 4.9 40 has changed my mind. Granted, he hasn't played a snap yet in the NFL, but good call by you so far.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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I think Jones has already been quoted saying he doesn't like to practice and doesn't lift. That should be enough of a red flag for anyone lol.

I know it's not necessarily a position of need, but if he's there, I'd much rather have Star than any of these guys being talked about at OLB for the #9 pick. Far less question marks with him than any of these OLBs and he too would help the pass rush. Our front 3 would be the most athletic in the league and he has the strength to play NT. His presence would also open up a lot for Davis and Harris. But I'm not sure he's going to even be available.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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Have you seen him at the senior bowl or combine? He's looked terrible. Also, people got on Stafford's case for his mechanics too. A good arm is a good arm, don't really care how he throws it unless its an average to bad arm like Tebow lol
Jury's still out on Stafford, and he was a top of the draft guy with better character. Bray consistently did less than he should have surrounded by big time talent. The big arm isn't as relevant in the WCO either.

I also of am not a fan of Senior Bowl/combine for QB evaluation. So much of the position is timing with receivers, watching film, putting in work, etc and you can't get a feel for that at all in that setting. What I did see from Glennon when I watched him this year is a guy capable of putting a terrible team on his back, which is exactly what the Jets need out of a QB.

I've got no problem agreeing to disagree, we'll see how those two guys' careers play out.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Tony Pauline
John Simon/DE-OLB/Ohio St pro-day: 4.62s-40, 34inch vert, 10' 1" broad, 7.10 3Cone, 4.2s short shuttle..caught all passes in LB drills..
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Originally Posted by Tony Pauline
More on John Simon/DE-OLB/Ohio St: looked terrific in DL & OLB drills. Fluid and quick. Pass coverage skills & ability to drop surprising
After hearing that, I believe he was just miscast at the Senior Bowl. Putting him back at #1 on my list of pass rushers. There was no one draft eligible more dominant the past two years that I've seen.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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After hearing that, I believe he was just miscast at the Senior Bowl. Putting him back at #1 on my list of pass rushers. There was no one draft eligible more dominant the past two years that I've seen.
I too am high on Simon. I like what I see. Seems to have a good motor, and i've seen a variety of pass rush moves. What round do you realistically see him going in? Would getting him in the 4th be reasonable?

Where do we see Safety support getting drafted? DJ Swearinger intrigues me. I think he could be had in the 3rd. He has flaws, but I like his intensity and think that he will make it in the league.

These are two mid-round guys that i would be happy to get.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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Simon, when I watched him, looked like a good pass rusher but a little limited in space. Interesting to hear he did well in LB drills, I know he was dinged up during the season so maybe I caught some of those games. Don't think a Simon-Barnes duo would have much length, more Steelers-ish and doesn't seem to have the versatility that Rex would typically want. Could do worse in the mid-rounds though, I couldn't question it if they rolled the dice there.

I think the 3rd, 4th round is where it would make sense to go safety, but who knows. Swearinger I like. He definitely fits what the current defense does. Would be happy with him in the third. If they could go something like pass rusher - skill player - Swearinger - Kelce/McDonald that'd be a nice start in the first 4 rounds IMO. Or if you flip the first two, although I don't see how value matches up there.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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Simon has a lot going for him. The only thing against him is a perceived lack of athleticism, but if he did great in the drills, I would assume he's almost got everything. I would say the 3rd would be reasonable.

As for Safeties, I like Swearinger. However, I don't really think they should go Safety on the first two days. Safeties, unless they're elite, IMO are more about fit. I don't really know if we'd get a better one in the 2nd round more so than the 6th.

For me, the first four rounds should be dedicated to any of RB, WR, TE, OL, CB, and/or front seven.

Sad how many holes we have...
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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Even if you give him the athleticism he still lacks height/length. Could end up Woodley-ish in the pros though.

I see your point about looking at fit for safeties and starters can definitely been found late (the Jets have done this for a while), but they drafted safeties in the sixth and seventh round last year and didn't get much out of it. They at this point need to find a starter, and to do that probably have to draft a guy earlier rather than later. Third round is about as early as I could see it, but I think they probably need to grab somebody by the 5th at the latest.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
The Great Jonathan Vilma
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I agree with your assessment. From a value perspective it will need to be D in round 1, and offense in round 2. Both will be dependent on who is available. Round 1 I see flaws in all the guys we would be looking at if it is a pass rusher;

Jordan - Range, versatile, but pass rush is raw
Jones - Good production, seems to be game smart, but is not physically dominant and size worries me (health risk too)
Ansah - Big and lots of potential, but raw and high risk. Can he play OLB?
Mingo - Looks the part of pass rusher, but is weak. Who knows how added weight will impact him

I don't think a QB/WR/RB/TE are worth the value, so it will be D in round 1. In round 2, i would be happy with getting a guy who falls on offense. If Lacy falls i would want us to grab him, but i'm a big fan of his. I'm happy with Goodson's signing, but I'm a Lacy homer. I would be fine with Warford too for G, which is a real weak spot. Obviously there is WR depth and we could use a #2, as Hill is still too raw to be relied upon until he proves otherwise and our depth is weak.

Round 3-5 I would think we should address Saftey and tight end, then add some additional BPA. Realistically, we have enough holes that BPA would likely be beneficial throughout the draft...
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Jordan and Ansah are gone.

Trade down.

Eifert/Lacy.

2nd-tier pass rusher in the 2nd round.

That's it.

Mingo and Jones aren't worth the 9th pick.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I agree that Jones isn't, but I wouldn't be surprised if we took Mingo. His lack of strength is concerning, but I believe the Bruce Irving / Mingo discussions that have come up.

While i understand the desire to trade down, that is the case every year and rarely ever happens, so you have to figure we will end up with #9. Until Ansah or Jordan are actually drafted they remain on the radar. My least desired guy would be Jones, due to the fact that I just don't see him physically being able to maintain this and think he's maxed out. I'm also not sure OLB would work for Ansah. Given this I would probably rank them;

Jordan
Mingo
Ansah
Jones

If we went pass rush in the second round, who are you thinking?
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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I fall somewhere in between. A trade down would be awesome and I like Eifert a lot. That said, it's not too hard to hit on a TE in the round 2-4 range and guys like Kelce, McDonald, and Escobar are appealing. That said, 100% with TGJV that we always want to trade down and it never happens. Maybe this is the year though.

Tend to be more with TGJV on Mingo and that order on pass rushers, Mingo's kind of basically Jordan but with less injury concerns but also less versatility. Freakish movement skills, should benefit from a move outside, and a good motor. Does need to add bulk. Ansah and Jordan should be a part of the conversation until they don't fall. Still don't know who takes Jordan if Buffalo goes QB which I kind of expect at this point. The Eagles and Browns addressed it in FA, not a need for the Raiders, Arizona likely goes offense, Detroit goes DE or corner...If he gets by the Jags it's basically just the Bills.

Lemonier could be a second round guy or Moore if he slips. Not as good as the first round options though. If they pass I'd wait till the mid rounds and look for a Simon/Collins/Buchanan type pick.

Second round offense is an interesting one. I'm not big on Lacy. Too early to go RB and he's not a fantastic WCO fit. I'd rather take a shot on upside later and if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out. Justin Hunter would be great, but he's not a WCO fit either.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Lemonier or Simon. Or Moore or Collins.

I think Lemonier goes late first though.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I don't think Lemonier is there in the second. Simon seems more like a round 3-4 guy, same with Collins. Even late round two, but that early in round two I don't know. Moore I could see, we did it in the forum mock, but I go back and forth on him.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Damontre might be there. Okafor will.

If you want a pass rusher you have to take him at 41 or whatever. You can't wait until the 3rd.

They need to come away with OLB, TE, RB in the first 4 rounds...
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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No interest in Okafor. Still think they take a pass rusher in the first so the second round thing isn't that relevant.

I disagree that you have to take a guy at 39. If they feel someone is a must have, it's possible. But if they've got a group of guys they like, move down to target one or wait until the third. If there's only one left, they can move up for him if they feel they need him. I know they've traded up too much, but they no need to reach for a guy at a need position either. Better use of the picks if you don't reach. They're too bad overall to reach for one spot in a certain round.

Don't think they need to come out of the first 4 rounds with those 3 positions, particularly RB running the WCO. That'd be ideal, but RB and TE are basically the same as they were much of last year. And OLB is definitely a need but McIntyre started much of the season and they signed Barnes. Most of the roster is equally mediocre at this point. Should be BPA (aside from centers who can't play guards, tackles they don't like on the right side, and maybe defensive linemen, inside linebackers, and corners early with probably a few other exceptions) all draft long.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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No interest in Okafor. Still think they take a pass rusher in the first so the second round thing isn't that relevant.

I disagree that you have to take a guy at 39. If they feel someone is a must have, it's possible. But if they've got a group of guys they like, move down to target one or wait until the third. If there's only one left, they can move up for him if they feel they need him. I know they've traded up too much, but they no need to reach for a guy at a need position either. Better use of the picks if you don't reach. They're too bad overall to reach for one spot in a certain round.

Don't think they need to come out of the first 4 rounds with those 3 positions, particularly RB running the WCO. That'd be ideal, but RB and TE are basically the same as they were much of last year. And OLB is definitely a need but McIntyre started much of the season and they signed Barnes. Most of the roster is equally mediocre at this point. Should be BPA (aside from centers who can't play guards, tackles they don't like on the right side, and maybe defensive linemen, inside linebackers, and corners early with probably a few other exceptions) all draft long.
Exactly.

My point about 39 is that pass rusher is such a premium position. You don't want to mess around that they'll lose out on him by waiting a full round.

I hope they don't go CB at 39 but that's probably where the value is at. And the off chance that Cyprien is there. Elam maybe also.

I still think they'll end up with a TE, RB, OLB with 3 of their first 4 picks.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Exactly.

My point about 39 is that pass rusher is such a premium position. You don't want to mess around that they'll lose out on him by waiting a full round.

I hope they don't go CB at 39 but that's probably where the value is at. And the off chance that Cyprien is there. Elam maybe also.

I still think they'll end up with a TE, RB, OLB with 3 of their first 4 picks.

You guys make great points. I'd change 3 of the first four picks to OLB, WR, TE though. I like the Goodson signing, and think what they have at RB will be good enough for this season. Can't fix all the holes in one draft. I think the best second round value is the WR class. Woods, Patton, Williams, Wheaton, Hunter, Rogers. Lots of upside here. There's no way Holmes is with the Jets in '14, and WR's generally take a little longer to develop. Pairing up another young talent with Hill could be a nice tandem in a couple of years, when we get an upgrade at QB. I like Hunter, but I have a growing interest in Patton. Reggie Wayne comparisons. Saw a stat on Patton today, dropped just 3 balls out of 158 targets. Led the nation. Maybe Escobar would fall to us in the 3rd, but I don't really think so. If you want your RB in the top four rounds, Lattimore could still possibly be there in round four. I'd be good with that.

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Old 03-29-2013, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Exactly.

My point about 39 is that pass rusher is such a premium position. You don't want to mess around that they'll lose out on him by waiting a full round.

I hope they don't go CB at 39 but that's probably where the value is at. And the off chance that Cyprien is there. Elam maybe also.

I still think they'll end up with a TE, RB, OLB with 3 of their first 4 picks.
That's only if there's a guy they think is head and shoulders above the rest though. The guys we're talking about are the kinds of players you take mid-round shots on. Guys worthy of taking at 39 will be gone by then because it's a premium position. So there will be some mid-round types left. I think they should take their favorite of the mid-round guys, but you take that guy in the mid-rounds, not at the top of the second because it's an important position. And this is still only if they don't go pass rusher in the first, which I think they will.

Don't see the value at 39 being CB once Rhodes and Trufant are gone (which they almost certainly will be).
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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With all the QB activity going on with teams ahead of the Jets, do you get the feeling that Geno will be available to us? If so, what is the though on drafting him? With the increasing potential the situation could occur I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts.

With that said, perhaps there is a reason that all these teams are looking for other alternatives...although I'd venture to say that none are serious attempts at solving their QB need long-term.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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Here's my take on Geno to the Jets. And it's pretty far out.

I would actually be happy if they took him. And I think he's going to be bad. But here's why.

If Smith starts, the team will probably go 2-14. Then they'll get Johnny Football or Bridgewater in 2014.

I also just had a thought - isn't Gio Bernard pretty much a perfect fit for them in the 3rd? Excellent receiver, explosive player...
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that Buffalo bringing in Kolb completely stops them from taking Geno. I agree with you that he has a great chance of being there though. Teams with higher picks, like Jax are doing their best to make other teams think they have a genuine interest, in hopes someone will trade up. But it is hard to imagine a team that would want to do that. As for the Jets, if he is there, I still say pass. If the Jets take a QB, I'd rather it be a later project pick. I'm still holding out hope that we get picks for Revis, and we find our stud future QB in the '14 class. It would be hard to feel like Geno is a winning pick in the way the "experts" have judged this class of QB's.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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Here's my take on Geno to the Jets. And it's pretty far out.

I would actually be happy if they took him. And I think he's going to be bad. But here's why.

If Smith starts, the team will probably go 2-14. Then they'll get Johnny Football or Bridgewater in 2014.

I also just had a thought - isn't Gio Bernard pretty much a perfect fit for them in the 3rd? Excellent receiver, explosive player...
If you are saying what I think you are saying, and i think you are, I think you are crazy! There is no way a team would use consecutive top 10 picks on a QB in back-to-back drafts. I will admit you warned it was far out, but that is crazy talk!

Given what we already have in our backfield I feel like Gio would be a duplicate. I'm unsure if he is a true difference-maker, but I could be wrong.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Regarding Geno, I'm not totally sold on him. He definitely has traits that can be developed, but I don't think the Jets are really a team I'm confident is going to do a good job of quarterback development. Maybe with Mornhinwig and Lee now, but I don't know.

All of that said, I wouldnt be disappointed if they took him. And my theory isn't quite as out there as gpngc's. To me, it's a quarterback driven league. If they like him enough to take him at 9, I think it's worth a shot. If you miss with the rookie wage scale as is, you can take a do over pretty quickly. Not quite in 2014, but I think if after two years it's clear he's not the guy you can take a shot in 2015. Not unlike the Jags with Gabbert, who I don't think they need to be attached to any more two years later. Now it'd hurt Idzik and I don't think I'd do it if I was in his shoes, but I really couldn't complain about them rolling the dice on a QB in the first who is perceived to be the top QB in the draft if he falls to them at nine.

Regarding Gio, I think he is a really good WCO fit. Like TGJV said, kind of redundant with the roster but he's arguably better than them. I wouldn't have a problem with it, but leery because of his injury issues. I kind of think of they go RB it's a round 4-6 guy with tools. Christine Michael, Knile Davis, even a smaller guy like Joseph Randle (despite him not running that well I still think he's explosive) or a Mike Gillislee who has a little more pop than the guys currently on the roster but can still move. I still like Zac Stacy late too. Another guy comparable to Gio is Franklin, but after signing Goodson I'd rather wait until that 4-6 range than take a day 2 guy.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Geno at 9 would be fine. Not sure I'm following the logic that we'd do worse with Geno than we would with Sanchez for a better pick next year. That makes no sense, and even if they went 2-14 with Geno we wouldn't draft a qb again they'd take Clowney obviously. I highly doubt Geno makes it past the Cardinals at 7, especially if the Carson Palmer not interested in the Cardinals thing is true.
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