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Old 04-01-2013, 05:13 PM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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I think people are going overboard with the whole "Nawrocki is racist" thing, especially because there are plenty of black players he likes. It's not like he trashes every black player or something. A lot of people like Geno Smith, so whenever someone posts a dissenting opinion, they act like that person must be racist.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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I think people are going overboard with the whole "Nawrocki is racist" thing, especially because there are plenty of black players he likes. It's not like he trashes every black player or something. A lot of people like Geno Smith, so whenever someone posts a dissenting opinion, they act like that person must be racist.
It's not that I think he's a racist, but I do think he has a tendency to associate negative attributes with certain QBs. It's a stereotypical bias, I won't go so far as to call him a racist.

Geno has much to criticize in his game, but when you start making evaluations about traits that can't be seen on tape, or without interacting personally with a prospect, it comes across as personal.

THere's a way to make the same criticisms Nawrocki did without sounding so abrasive.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Nawrocki doesn't like another black QB? Color me shocked!
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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I hate the race card, but he is absolutely racist.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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It's not that I think he's a racist, but I do think he has a tendency to associate negative attributes with certain QBs. It's a stereotypical bias, I won't go so far as to call him a racist.

Geno has much to criticize in his game, but when you start making evaluations about traits that can't be seen on tape, or without interacting personally with a prospect, it comes across as personal.

THere's a way to make the same criticisms Nawrocki did without sounding so abrasive.
Just asking out of curiosity, do we know for sure he has never reacted with Smith personally?

There are a lot of judgments being made against Nawrocki for him knocking a player for reasons that we as fans can neither deny or confirm.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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I hate the race card, but he is absolutely racist.
Why is he absolutely racist?
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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everything i've heard about geno is the wvu coaches had to find more tape for him to study as he would go through it all

after we lost to lsu his junior year, bruce feldman tweeted he saw geno going back into the film room to watch tape of the game...it was 1:30 in the morning
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by kwilk103 View Post
everything i've heard about geno is the wvu coaches had to find more tape for him to study as he would go through it all

after we lost to lsu his junior year, bruce feldman tweeted he saw geno going back into the film room to watch tape of the game...it was 1:30 in the morning


I've heard similar stories about Geno, that he's a film study junky and very diligent about his game preparation. Physically talented QBs who also put in serious work off the field IMO are usually the guys who find a way to stick in the NFL.

So either Nawrocki has (really) bad sources, or he's embellishing.
Nawrocki is the same guy who NEVER spoke to Cam Newton, but felt comfortable psychoanalyzing him from watching his demeanor on game tapes and in interviews.

That's not scouting. That's tabloid journalism.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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I hate the race card, but he is absolutely racist.
That is one of the worst simple accusations I have ever seen on here.

You do realize that 100% of the cornerbacks that Nolan evaluates, are black.
Also, 100% of the halfbacks he analyzes are black too.
And about 95% of the WR's are black.

So does he rip on every single CB, WR, and RB, except for the handful of Caucasian WR & RB's?

He must if he's racist right?
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Racist isn't the correct term, but he certainly has a lower opinion of minority QB's.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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I've read Geno Smith is a "film junkie". At the same time, we don't see him going through progressions. We don't see him adjusting the protection. What was he studying so much? I think it's a fair question.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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I've read Geno Smith is a "film junkie". At the same time, we don't see him going through progressions. We don't see him adjusting the protection. What was he studying so much? I think it's a fair question.
His demeanor when things weren't going well are legit too. These are real concerns for any QB.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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With Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin as your WRs, how many times did Geno even need to go past his 2nd read??
It hurt him in games against TT and KState when he came off his primary and secondary reads too late and pressure got to him.

But for the most part, if you're a college QB and can't find a way on most passing plays to get the ball to Austin/Bailey, IMO you aren't really that good.

I think Geno's problem last season was that he didn't believe any secondary was capable of taking away both Bailey and Austin at the same time, and when it actually did happen, he didn't react quickly enough.

I think coaching can correct that tendency and stress the importance of throwing to the open guy, not just the 'superstars' who are supposed to be open.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:31 AM    (permalink
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That is one of the worst simple accusations I have ever seen on here.

You do realize that 100% of the cornerbacks that Nolan evaluates, are black.
Also, 100% of the halfbacks he analyzes are black too.
And about 95% of the WR's are black.

So does he rip on every single CB, WR, and RB, except for the handful of Caucasian WR & RB's?

He must if he's racist right?
Whoa whoa whoa. I'm just messing around. I suppose I should have made it more obvious.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:30 AM    (permalink
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With Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin as your WRs, how many times did Geno even need to go past his 2nd read??
It hurt him in games against TT and KState when he came off his primary and secondary reads too late and pressure got to him.

But for the most part, if you're a college QB and can't find a way on most passing plays to get the ball to Austin/Bailey, IMO you aren't really that good.

I think Geno's problem last season was that he didn't believe any secondary was capable of taking away both Bailey and Austin at the same time, and when it actually did happen, he didn't react quickly enough.

I think coaching can correct that tendency and stress the importance of throwing to the open guy, not just the 'superstars' who are supposed to be open.
Right. If he'd had gone through his progressions then what exactly more do people believe he could have done? Thrown for 6,000 yards 60 TD's and completed 85% of his passes?

Here's something interesting I just looked up really fast.

WVU pass catchers had 378 receptions last year. Bailey and Austin combined for 228 of those. Which is 60%.

I then looked at Matt Barkley's and the USC recievers. USC pass catchers had 284 receptions last year. Lee and Woods combined for 194 of those. Which is 68%.

Whaddaya know? Another college QB supposedly locked on to his two stud college WR's. (I don't know how many times each player was targeted. WVU did throw the ball 76 more times than USC last year. They also ran it 69 more times as a team, too. For what it's worth)

And... why wouldn't he?

Geno has some things to work on, yes, but I still think he's easily the top QB in this draft class.

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Old 04-02-2013, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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People hear 'racism' and assume it means he walks down the street everyday and hurls abuse at black people, lol. It doesn't.

It could be unconcious, but it seems as though he has some sort of pre-determined view that black QBs have character issues and arent great people. That doesn't mean every black QB will get the same treatment, but it doesnt have to. He could see a white QB behave the same way as a black QB and either conciously or unconciously come to the conclusion that the black QB is worse.

(all of that is speculation, I dont know enough about him or his scouting reports to say any of it is actually true)
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't doubt that there's racial undertones to his scouting. It's apparent in how he evaluates all the black qbs to have character flaws and a lack of leadership and understanding of complex situations.

And the verbiage used to discuss their weaknesses is significantly more harsh than what's used to describe their white counterparts' flaws.

Racism isn't always a conscious thing. We all have our inner biases and he clearly has some.

Take the Cam Newton analysis for example. He was generally right about his concerns, but the way he explained them reeked of racism. Then to say things about RGIII and Russell Wilson which were just outrageously wrong yet ironically on par with the things he said about Cam...I mean come on. Let's put 2 and 2 together.

And when we evaluate qbs, I think racism comes out a lot more than other positions, bc qb is the one position in football where intelligence and leadership ability is greatly factored into the evaluation of the player. And institutional racism that's prevelant in the real world outside of sports can rear its ugly head in the sports world in this situation bc of that.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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LOL. Nawrocki is getting ripped by John Clayton and Todd McShay on Mike & Mike for 'over-evaluating' Geno Smith.

Basically the claim that Geno Smith doesn't prepare and has a marginal work ethic has been refuted by everything Clayton and McShay have heard from staff and teammates at WVU about Smith.

So if that's the case, where does Nawrocki get that opinion from??

I'll be honest, I never heard of this guy until he ripped Cam Newton a new one a couple years ago. People say his draft analysis is solid. Whatever.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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I've heard similar stories about Geno, that he's a film study junky and very diligent about his game preparation. Physically talented QBs who also put in serious work off the field IMO are usually the guys who find a way to stick in the NFL.

So either Nawrocki has (really) bad sources, or he's embellishing.
Nawrocki is the same guy who NEVER spoke to Cam Newton, but felt comfortable psychoanalyzing him from watching his demeanor on game tapes and in interviews.

That's not scouting. That's tabloid journalism.
But everything he said about Cam turned out to be true.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Take the Cam Newton analysis for example. He was generally right about his concerns, but the way he explained them reeked of racism. Then to say things about RGIII and Russell Wilson which were just outrageously wrong yet ironically on par with the things he said about Cam...I mean come on. Let's put 2 and 2 together.
He didn't speak poorly about RGIII / Russel Wilson's work ethics... I don't know where you're getting that from.

Nawrocki generally spoke glowingly about both RGIII and Wilson.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I wouldn't doubt that there's racial undertones to his scouting. It's apparent in how he evaluates all the black qbs to have character flaws and a lack of leadership and understanding of complex situations.

And the verbiage used to discuss their weaknesses is significantly more harsh than what's used to describe their white counterparts' flaws.

Racism isn't always a conscious thing. We all have our inner biases and he clearly has some.

Take the Cam Newton analysis for example. He was generally right about his concerns, but the way he explained them reeked of racism. Then to say things about RGIII and Russell Wilson which were just outrageously wrong yet ironically on par with the things he said about Cam...I mean come on. Let's put 2 and 2 together.

And when we evaluate qbs, I think racism comes out a lot more than other positions, bc qb is the one position in football where intelligence and leadership ability is greatly factored into the evaluation of the player. And institutional racism that's prevelant in the real world outside of sports can rear its ugly head in the sports world in this situation bc of that.
It's just bizarre that this is getting all the exposure. I think the most telling example is when Swope ran the 4.3 40 people were making up excuses as to why he isn't this fast, no one seemed to have a problem making up **** about how Swope only has "straight-line speed" but oooh and ahh over a black WR who runs a fast 40 yet does not have nearly the production of Swope.

It goes both ways and after following the draft for several years tons of stereotypes are recycled each year when applied to players.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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It's just bizarre that this is getting all the exposure. I think the most telling example is when Swope ran the 4.3 40 people were making up excuses as to why he isn't this fast, no one seemed to have a problem making up **** about how Swope only has "straight-line speed" but oooh and ahh over a black WR who runs a fast 40 yet does not have nearly the production of Swope.

It goes both ways and after following the draft for several years tons of stereotypes are recycled each year when applied to players.
Of course it goes both ways. I don't deny that there are negative stereotypes for the white guys at all.

My point, and the thing that annoys me is the type of stereotypes. The bad stereotypes for the minorites is they're not smart, they're not leaders, and they have character flaws.

The bad stereotypes for the white guys is they're not athletic.

And that may stink for them in the athletic world, but when you take a step back, you realize that these stereotypes are present outside the athletic world as well, and think about the significant advantage it provides outside of sports.

Being fast is a cool stereotype to have if Im a football player. If I'm an every day man, being smart, having great character and leaderships skills is a great stereotype to have for just about any other job on this planet.

That's the difference.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Right. If he'd had gone through his progressions then what exactly more do people believe he could have done? Thrown for 6,000 yards 60 TD's and completed 85% of his passes?

Here's something interesting I just looked up really fast.

WVU pass catchers had 378 receptions last year. Bailey and Austin combined for 228 of those. Which is 60%.

I then looked at Matt Barkley's and the USC recievers. USC pass catchers had 284 receptions last year. Lee and Woods combined for 194 of those. Which is 68%.

Whaddaya know? Another college QB supposedly locked on to his two stud college WR's. (I don't know how many times each player was targeted. WVU did throw the ball 76 more times than USC last year. They also ran it 69 more times as a team, too. For what it's worth)

And... why wouldn't he?

Geno has some things to work on, yes, but I still think he's easily the top QB in this draft class.
Haven't watched much on him yeah but probably played in a lot formations with just two wideouts while Geno Smith's offense spread the offense with multiple receivers. Its similar to Leach's offense (the coach comes from Leach's tree), the ball finds the best playmakers, like Crabtree getting 100+ catches lined up in a completely different spot from someone like Welker who put up a ton of catches or Danny Amendola lined up in a different spot and the ball still found him the most. However, when those guys are shut down you need to find the guy thats open. Some of the Tech qbs managed that with guys like Eric Morris getting a significant number of catches the year after Crabtree's big season.

Ryan Tannehill had similar problems against K State the year before with them holding Swope to a low in receiving yards with 58, however still had 9 catches and his performance was better than Austin. Ryan put up 210 yards 3 tds and 1 int that game, although the game went into multiple overtimes. Tannehill had a lot more help from his running game but you also have to take into account that he had less experience as a starting qb and he made more plays with his legs and kept the game closer, it looks like he took what he could get and didn't try to force things. So the main concern was the td to turnover ratio. I'd have to say it was a wash at this time but thats because I have to go back and watch the WVU K State game.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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I think yesterday's QB trades and signings clearly indicate that Geo Smith is not highly thought of as a true franchise QB. Most of the teams absolutely desperate for a starting QB found one in preference to drafting Smith, a sad commentary on his talent.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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But everything he said about Cam turned out to be true.
No. He said Cam had a "fake smile." It's an unfalsifiable statement. It's so baseless and there's no reason for speculation about something like that. He didn't gather some facts and write about it in his scouting report. He said things that you can't determine whether or not they're correct.
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