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Old 04-02-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
MI_Buckeye
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I might be in the minority here, but I really like Nolan Nawrocki. He really gets specific in his evaluations, and the PFW draft guide is by far the best draft publication each and every year. He's not afraid to put out really unpopular opinions that draw the kind of heat he's getting in this thread and elsewhere.

I am willing to bet that if he is willing to put out information this inflammatory, it is well-sourced. I have never detected anything slightly racial in his evaluations at all. I'm sure he'll plenty on not too flattering things to say about Tyler Bray as well as other white players with character flaws.

What I love about Nolan is he doesn't settle for the simple, generic "he has character questions" type of lazy criticism. He provides cogent, detailed assessments of a player's strengths and weaknesses both on and off the field and how those attributes will carry over to an NFL organization. He provides insight you don't get elsewhere.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Nawrocki seems like he is provocative on purpose to stir the pot since he isn't on NFL Network or ESPN. But in reality the things he says are probably tame compared to the criticisms hurled at prospects to their faces in team interviews. Race has nothing to do with it. If he comes out in Tyler Bray's scouting report and doesn't rip his character, then perhaps the race accusations will have a leg to stand on. That won't happen though.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:22 AM    (permalink
MI_Buckeye
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Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
No. He said Cam had a "fake smile." It's an unfalsifiable statement. It's so baseless and there's no reason for speculation about something like that. He didn't gather some facts and write about it in his scouting report. He said things that you can't determine whether or not they're correct.
It may not be a cold, hard fact, but if you're a GM looking to invest tens of millions of dollars into a young man, you have to take these attributes into consideration. Sincerity, trustworthiness and selflessness are all very subjective, but you still have to make judgments on them, especially when the prospect in question might be the face of your organization for the foreseeable future.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Basically the claim that Geno Smith doesn't prepare and has a marginal work ethic has been refuted by everything Clayton and McShay have heard from staff and teammates at WVU about Smith.
Todd McShay ‏@McShay13 13m
Re: Geno Smith - Ive spoken to at least 10 diff scouts with varying opinions on Geno as a football player. But not 1 questioned work ethic

Criticism of Geno Smith off base

CBS Sports' Bruce Feldman tweeted that the "work ethic knock" on West Virginia QB Geno Smith is "total BS."

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Of course it goes both ways. I don't deny that there are negative stereotypes for the white guys at all.

My point, and the thing that annoys me is the type of stereotypes. The bad stereotypes for the minorites is they're not smart, they're not leaders, and they have character flaws.

The bad stereotypes for the white guys is they're not athletic.

And that may stink for them in the athletic world, but when you take a step back, you realize that these stereotypes are present outside the athletic world as well, and think about the significant advantage it provides outside of sports.

Being fast is a cool stereotype to have if Im a football player. If I'm an every day man, being smart, having great character and leaderships skills is a great stereotype to have for just about any other job on this planet.

That's the difference.
I understand the negative stereotypes affect people outside of the sports world but as far as football it negatively impacts whites at almost every single position except qb, I mean its gotten to the point where many consider most white left tackles not athletic enough to handle speed rushers and get penalized for having smaller arm length when guys like Jake Long and Joe Thomas didn't have ideal arm length. The only correlation I can find is that whites tend to have shorter arms, and yes those with shorter arms have struggled with being a lt but I don't think it was the main thing hindering them. What the reason for them not ever being considered for defensive tackle? they do great on the other side of the ball and many of these guys are converted to oline after high school and may be better suited for the other side. Things are changing and I don't think RG3's leadership was questioned as well as Russel Wilson and those guys have been very successful They are both smart as well and I don't see any character flaws. And so far I don't see how the criticism on Newton and leadership has been proven wrong, he has sulked on the sidelines during losses, he has smarts but he did have character flaws, yes he doesn't have the ideal situation but thats where leadership comes into play, getting the most out of what you have. Drew Brees isn't playing with top notch guys, Lance Moore is a marginal athlete that wouldn't be making it on most teams. I mean he has Graham and Sproles NOW but the first time he threw for 5k not one single guy got 1k and those guys weren't there, and Lance Moore was one of the leading receivers. There are many black players that have leadership qualities/smarts just like there are many white players who have the athleticism, and there are plenty of white qbs with poor leadership qualities, there is just way more of them getting chances so the ones that don't are overlooked. I mean I don't think Clausen had good leadership skills but it wasn't really talked about with his failure.

I don't know of any character flaws with Geno Smith, his failure to go through progressions probably has nothing to do with his smarts, it may just be struggling under pressure when his main guys aren't open. I mean how many white qbs fall under the same category? plenty

I think its slowly changing but there is still plenty of lazy scouting that just lists a bunch of stereotypes, which goes for both races. What about the poor Samoans? they still haven't been able to shake the "not a good athlete" label because of some poor performances at the combine, despite it showing up on film. Many people still don't think Troy P has good athleticism, that he is just a thumper. Yeah he may not be Ed Reed but he has good athleticism.

I mean yeah the stereotypes in the real world are a big deal, but the NFL is a big business with guys making a lot of money and the NBA as well, and blacks are 13 percent of the population but make up about 60 to 70 percent of the NFL and even more in the NBA. So whats better, a few extra white guys (when you consider that they make up a much larger portion of the population) considered to have good leadership skills maybe working there way up to 100k a year in a salary in a regular job or guys that can make 3x that much just one year in the league, and thats the minimum and then many opportunities to work on ESPN, NFL Network for former players who are still making a good amount of dough.

I mean at the high school level Ive been told that such and such player has the skills to get an athletic scholarship but his family can afford to pay for his schooling so he isn't as deserving so he should be a preffered walk on instead. And yeah maybe the families could afford the schooling but it still puts a burden on them financially, and it should be based on merit regardless, yet there are many successful walk ons that were white and that is a stereotype in itself that every white kid has a family that can pay for a scholarship.

I think th problem is at a much wider scale at the lower levels where blacks are encouraged into sports and aren't encouraged to focus on academics as strongly even with the low chance of making it in to professional sports. There needs to be reform in the education system especially with inner city schools, schools in general where a 1.5 gpa is good enough to play high school sports. These kids should be getting help from tutors so they can succeed in things other than sports, many don't have the ideal home lives and support groups. And if you have ever worked with these kids at the lower levels many have unreal expectations of what they will achieve in sports no matter what their talent level so they put all of their eggs in that basket and its ecnouraged by their coaches (vea seen it first hand where coaches say "well as long as I can get him into college" and help with grades, talk to teachers to raise grades etc...well what happens once they get to college when you aren't really preparing them?). Somehow the guys with the real money at the top think sports are the solution to fixing the imbalance and its just not working.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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yeah, but guys, RG3 and Rus are cornball brothas
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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yeah, but guys, RG3 and Rus are cornball brothas
Does that mean they are actually asian on the Inside? I hella want some cornbread or a corn dog now. That **** is delicious.


I just think Geno isn't that great of a QB . He has stats and has good tools but he is a lacking as a prospect.

I know it's 'unprovable', but Cam was/is fake as hell, huge ego.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
It may not be a cold, hard fact, but if you're a GM looking to invest tens of millions of dollars into a young man, you have to take these attributes into consideration. Sincerity, trustworthiness and selflessness are all very subjective, but you still have to make judgments on them, especially when the prospect in question might be the face of your organization for the foreseeable future.
No you don't. It's not an attribute. It was something made up that couldn't be proven, had no substance to it at all, and went out of his way to be negative. Then he's the only guy somehow with these accusations, like for some reason when it comes to black QB's he is getting info not one other person is.


Most hilarious part is his player comparisons which are god awful. Even getting away from Geno and his lazy black QB comparisons that are nothing alike, how is Matt Barkley a cross between Drew Brees and Colt McCoy? Lol. what does that even mean? So he's somewhere in between a HOF QB, and a solid to below average back-up QB? Or did he just pick 2 short white QB's and figured that was good enough?


I won't read a single thing from that site while they still employ this clown, and I can guarantee you no GM is taking what he says to heart when he's the only 1 saying it and coming way out of left field. A scouting report is supposed to not have bias, and give a full picture. All he did was blast Geno and went out of his way completely to attack his character, I'm surprised they still let him do this but more skip bayless tactics in the media world doesn't surprise me.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I think yesterday's QB trades and signings clearly indicate that Geo Smith is not highly thought of as a true franchise QB. Most of the teams absolutely desperate for a starting QB found one in preference to drafting Smith, a sad commentary on his talent.
Probably just an indictment that he isn't a top 7 talent, (Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Cards). Scouts probably think he needs a couple of years to develope, as do most QBs. I think he'll still go mid to late first with one of those teams i mentioned finding a way to get him there.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Probably just an indictment that he isn't a top 7 talent, (Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Cards). Scouts probably think he needs a couple of years to develope, as do most QBs. I think he'll still go mid to late first with one of those teams i mentioned finding a way to get him there.
For all of the teams besides KC, it could also be that they think he'll come off the board at 2 to the Jaguars and they don't like the other QB options at the top of the draft. If he doesn't go there and slips to 9 I think the Jets would mull it over as well.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
I might be in the minority here, but I really like Nolan Nawrocki. He really gets specific in his evaluations, and the PFW draft guide is by far the best draft publication each and every year. He's not afraid to put out really unpopular opinions that draw the kind of heat he's getting in this thread and elsewhere.

I am willing to bet that if he is willing to put out information this inflammatory, it is well-sourced. I have never detected anything slightly racial in his evaluations at all. I'm sure he'll plenty on not too flattering things to say about Tyler Bray as well as other white players with character flaws.

What I love about Nolan is he doesn't settle for the simple, generic "he has character questions" type of lazy criticism. He provides cogent, detailed assessments of a player's strengths and weaknesses both on and off the field and how those attributes will carry over to an NFL organization. He provides insight you don't get elsewhere.
Nothing that Nawrocki wrote as fact about Cam Newton was shared by anyone at Auburn. Apparently the Carolina Panthers, and a host of other teams that would have made him the #1 overall pick (ex: the Bills), all came to a very different conclusion in their own analysis. You'd be willing to bet that what he writes is well sourced? I'd be willing to bet that this clown is trying to make a name for himself by writing these hilariously in-depth exposť pieces that sound so well conceived that you'd be inclined to believe that Mr. Nawrocki was a professional shrink who had spent tens of hours with the players he writes about. Of course, the reality is that he likely hasn't even met any of these players, which makes his opinions extremely suspicious at best.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Probably just an indictment that he isn't a top 7 talent, (Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Cards). Scouts probably think he needs a couple of years to develope, as do most QBs. I think he'll still go mid to late first with one of those teams i mentioned finding a way to get him there.
I think he could possibly go as high as #9 to the Jets but I think Jacksonville and the Eagles aren't likely destinations.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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Probably just an indictment that he isn't a top 7 talent, (Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Cards). Scouts probably think he needs a couple of years to develope, as do most QBs. I think he'll still go mid to late first with one of those teams i mentioned finding a way to get him there.

One of these teams I believe will regret passing on Geno.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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I have yet to get corroboration on this but during the combine a few of the NFLN analysts discussed that part of the concern with Geno Smith are questions about his ability to command an NFL locker room.

They said that teams had questions about his intangibles. I saw the Mooch segment and he didn't strike me as the charismatic, face of the franchise, command the respect of a 10-year vet type of kid. He's into art. He was clearly trying to show well on the TV spot, relaxed and everything. But I didn't buy it. He also forgot two key components to a diagram Mooch gave him.

He also had somewhat of a meltdown against K-State on the sidelines when they stymied him.

I will say that Aaron Rodgers' interviews probably scared off some teams. He's very laid back, sarcastic. That was a mistake. But Rodgers was an amazing pro prospect. It was questions about his attitude/Tedford that made him fall so far. Smith has no where near the film Rodgers had. Rodgers had a lightning quick release and good mechanics. Terrific accuracy. Very few on-field question marks aside from the lack of IDEAL size.

So I might be totally off with Smith. I don't know him. I do know that I've heard whispers and seen some indications that he might not have the intangibles teams look for.

Usually on pretty much every highly touted QB's scouting report, leadership/intangibles are lumped together and pretty much go without saying. For Smith, it's only one thing - film study. That he's a film junkie. That's great, but only a small % of what NFL teams are looking for in a quarterback.

*This is all speculation based on some comments, what I've gleaned from very little of him speaking, body langauge, etc.

If he falls far in the draft, I think these issues might be the reason or at least part of it.


It's tough. I like his arm and he's accurate enough but he has some big-time issues with footwork and inconsistent decision-making. But the hardest part is that a QB with issues cannot be evaluated without knowing the person. He simply can't. At least 25% of the total evaluation for a top QB has to be intangibles. How hard he'll work. How smart he is. How he works with teammates and his ability to be a leader of men and command a team. Usually I just fill out that 25%. With Smith, I can't. He got visibly discouraged when KState stopped their O and the comments around him don't give me confidence.
This is me quoting me (razzball) on my concerns weeks ago based on reading the tea leaves. You'll see some recurring themes if you read.

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http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/74669/geno-smith-to-the-cardinals-not-so-fast

This is very interesting. ESPN's Mike Sando (the best football guy at ESPN) basically finds out directly from Arians that the Cards do not like Geno Smith. This comes after the Chiefs trade for Alex Smith instead of drafting Geno Smith.

Something else interesting - they changed the title of this blog post from "Why the Cardinals WON'T draft Geno Smith" to "Geno Smith to the Cardinals? - Not so fast." Which I just realized when I went back to find this.

Quote:
Various 2013 NFL mock drafts have the Arizona Cardinals selecting West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith with the seventh overall pick.

The logic is sound in that Arizona has needed quarterback help for years. The problem is that Cardinals coach Bruce Arians likes Drew Stanton, doesn't sound enamored with Smith and thinks Arizona's needs at the position are overstated.

Arians, speaking Wednesday at the NFL owners meeting in Phoenix, could have been going out of his way to mislead. He might secretly love Smith and hope no other team selects Smith among the top six overall choices. That wasn't my feel at all.

Arians was with Andrew Luck in Indianapolis last season. Before that, he helped coach Ben Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh. He's very open about what he wants in players and how he wants things done. Running backs should be every-down players. Quarterback competitions are bad for the locker room. There's no room on the roster for fullbacks. In that spirit, Arians was very open when asked whether Smith compares to Luck and the other top rookies quarterbacks from 2012.

"Athletically, yes," Arians said. "He can throw the football and he obviously had a great workout the other day. The guys that were in the combine last year, all of them when they left the room, you went, 'Wow.' No one in this draft made me go, 'Wow.' Now, can they throw the football? Yeah."

Throwing the football isn't enough. Arians made that clear.

"Did not go to his workout," Arians said of Smith, "but on tape he can make every throw. He is athletic and he has a big arm, good release, fairly accurate, but the time of putting him on the board and all those things is still happening soon.

"He has got the skill set as many guys have skill sets. You don’t play the game with that skill set. The two muscles that you play quarterback with you can’t evaluate. The brain and the heart. That is a winning quarterback. Until you get in the huddle with them, you don’t know what you have."


Arians has seen the mock drafts projecting a quarterback to Arizona at No. 7. ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay both went that direction recently, citing need over value. Arians correctly noted that most mock drafts overemphasize perceived needs at the expense of actual player value. He issued the usual warnings about reaching to fill needs.

Stanton will start next season if the Cardinals do not acquire anyone else at the position.

Arians said so: "It depends once we get the roster set and if that room hasn’t changed, he is our starter. It's that easy."

Perhaps someone such as Carson Palmer will become available. That could change the dynamic. Arians is certain he wants a starter named by training camp either way. He believes in clarity at quarterback and competition at other spots.

"If there is a quarterback that fits the spot in the draft that you want to put him at and the value of him, then you take one," Arians said. "I feel very comfortable with our situation right now with Drew Stanton in our mix. The need value is not there."
So Arians said:

He can throw. Last year the guys who left the room at the combine made him go 'wow' and nobody did that this year. Reading the tea leaves...

He finishes by saying "the need value is not there." Basically what Sando told us - Arians won't draft Geno Smith.

And Arians likes his arm. Didn't like him at the combine (at least compared to the interviews last year).

Quote:
Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
From rotoworld

Positives: Has a strong arm and can rifle the ball with good velocity into tight windows. Can throw with accuracy on the move and layer the deep ball. Good overall accuracy, ball placement and touch, especially on the fade route. Throws a very catchable ball — spins it tightly. Good escapability — can sidestep the rush, find an open throwing window and extend plays with his feet when needed. Outstanding straight-line speed — clocked the best 40-yard time (4.56 seconds) and broad jump (10-foot-4) of any quarterback at the Combine. Very durable, experienced, three-year starter — overcame an average offensive line, has never missed any time to injury and will play through pain.

Negatives: Operated an offense where he received adjustments from the sidelines and was often out of sync with receivers. Average field vision and coverage recognition — forces throws and does not work through progressions. Takes unnecessary sacks and does not feel pressure well. Not an elusive scrambler. Shaky lower-body mechanics — does not stand tall in the pocket (crouches, hops, dances and elevates to his toes when he throws). Has pin legs and bad pocket posture. Operated almost exclusively from the gun. Not a student of the game. Nonchalant field presence — does not command respect from teammates and cannot inspire. Mild practice demeanor — no urgency. Not committed or focused — marginal work ethic. Interviewed poorly at the Combine and did not show an understanding of concepts on the white board. Opted not to compete at the Senior Bowl and has approached offseason training as if he has already arrived and it shows in his body with minimal muscle definition or strength. Has small hands and glaring ball security issues (32 career fumbles). Really struggled handling the snow in Pinstripe Bowl (took two safeties) and will be troubled by the elements. Needed to be coddled in college — cannot handle hard coaching.

Summary: Started the season red-hot with the help of two playmaking receivers and created a national stir generating a lot of overexcitement in the scouting community. Quickly came down to earth after Kansas State disguised coverages and brought pressure he could not handle and he finished dropping six of his final eight games. A cross between Akili Smith and Aaron Brooks, Smith is a gimmick, overhyped product of the system lacking the football savvy, work habits and focus to cement a starting job and could drain energy from a QB room. Will be overdrafted and struggle to produce against NFL defensive complexities.

NFL projection: Top-50 pick.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...outing-reports
Then there's this. I suggest you read the ******* scouting report rather than Rotoworld's blurb which is just the negative stuff.

Whether you like Smith or not, there are legitimate questions about his ability to command a locker room based on all of the smoke.

Bruce Feldmen tweeted, and other posters on here have added, that the WORK ETHIC/COMMITMENT knock on Smith is bogus. That claim seems to have little or no merit. I'm uneasy about Narwoki writing that.

But that's the only thing being shot down in Narwoki's detailed and thorough scouting report.
A report that I think does a GREAT job explaining his positives and on-field negatives as well (but no one wants to actually talk nuts and bolts).

Three sources now have him unimpressive on a whiteboard.

1) Primary source: couldn't remember a key component with Mooch, saw it with my own eyes.

2) Secondary source: Arians in reference to last year's interviewees.

3) and this scouting report.

I'll repeat - the work ethic remarks bug me because I too heard stories of his dedication to film study.

However, none of the other negatives in his report seem off base at all and in fact some I've suspected about his prospect all along...

Not to mention the corroboration of mine/others scouting of him and Narwoki's in terms of his on-field concerns (footwork, decision-making, etc.).

There is a common thread with what I've marked as red.
I'm sure the opposing argument will be 1) you don't count because it's baseless and you can't prove you heard that without the footage from the combine (it was four of them and it was either Mooch or Charles Davis who said it I THINK.., 2) Arians didn't outright say anything negative about Geno and you're just assuming, and 3) Nawroki doesn't count because he doesn't count.

Fool me once... fool me twice... three times...

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Nice post gnpc...plus rep.

Also, It is going to be interesting to see Arians in AZ. He is a pretty knowledgeable guy regarding QBs and offense. Looking forward to see how he handles being a full time head coach without the interim tag.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Geno started 3 years at WVU. I have yet to come away from watching a Mountaineers football game thinking that squad was underperforming.....on offense.
When Geno broke huddle, those guys were giving max effort on nearly every single play.

They eviscerated Clemson in the Orange Bowl. They played a superior LSU team close for 3 quarters last year.

Leadership in the huddle/lockerroom means can you inspire guys to elevate their play. But for some reason I feel like people are blaming Geno for the Mountaineers defense being unable to hold their own water.
The argument suggests if Geno was 'really' a leader, WVU's defense would have suddenly shut down opponents' offenses.

I think these leadership arguments against him are all style over substance.

The fact that Arians allegedly is not interested in drafting Geno means what exactly??
Most QBs are going to pale in comparison to Peyton/Roethlisberger/Luck,(one the son of a football coach, the other two sons of former NFL QBs).
If that's the standard Arians is going to use to decide whether or not a QB prospect is worth a top 5 pick, he's unlikely to EVER select a QB that high as the Cards HC.

I wish there was a fast forward button on SWDC.lol

There were equally impassioned arguments against the inevitable demise of Cam Newton in the NFL, backed up with logic and analytical breakdowns about why he lacked the right stuff to make it in the NFL.

Personally I've never seen a QB put up dominating stats in college who couldn't command a huddle or wasn't perceived on some level to be a leader by his teammates.

If Geno goes to Jacksonville, I think it's an ideal situation for him. Gabby probably starts the season, poops all over himself or gets injured by week 8 and Geno comes in and stabilizes the entire franchise.

The only criticisms I agree with Nawrocki about Geno are his issues with feeling pressure, not being an elusive scrambler, has small hands and interviewed relatively poorly at the combine.

I think if Nawrocki is proven almost totally wrong about Geno as a pro, I think his credibility is going to tank. Permanently.
Although his draft evaluations are mainly for NFL fans and not pro GMs and scouts.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Geno started 3 years at WVU. I have yet to come away from watching a Mountaineers football game thinking that squad was underperforming.....on offense.
When Geno broke huddle, those guys were giving max effort on nearly every single play.

They eviscerated Clemson in the Orange Bowl. They played a superior LSU team close for 3 quarters last year.

Leadership in the huddle/lockerroom means can you inspire guys to elevate their play. But for some reason I feel like people are blaming Geno for the Mountaineers defense being unable to hold their own water.
The argument suggests if Geno was 'really' a leader, WVU's defense would have suddenly shut down opponents' offenses.

I think these leadership arguments against him are all style over substance.

The fact that Arians allegedly is not interested in drafting Geno means what exactly??
Most QBs are going to pale in comparison to Peyton/Roethlisberger/Luck,(one the son of a football coach, the other two sons of former NFL QBs).
If that's the standard Arians is going to use to decide whether or not a QB prospect is worth a top 5 pick, he's unlikely to EVER select a QB that high as the Cards HC.

I wish there was a fast forward button on SWDC.lol

There were equally impassioned arguments against the inevitable demise of Cam Newton in the NFL, backed up with logic and analytical breakdowns about why he lacked the right stuff to make it in the NFL.

Personally I've never seen a QB put up dominating stats in college who couldn't command a huddle or wasn't perceived on some level to be a leader by his teammates.

If Geno goes to Jacksonville, I think it's an ideal situation for him. Gabby probably starts the season, poops all over himself or gets injured by week 8 and Geno comes in and stabilizes the entire franchise.

The only criticisms I agree with Nawrocki about Geno are his issues with feeling pressure, not being an elusive scrambler, has small hands and interviewed relatively poorly at the combine.

I think if Nawrocki is proven almost totally wrong about Geno as a pro, I think his credibility is going to tank. Permanently.
Although his draft evaluations are mainly for NFL fans and not pro GMs and scouts.
His play deteriorated drastically after the Texas game...

Yes his stats look great as a whole but they are absolutely inflated by horrible Baylor and Kansas defenses... he had 11 TDs and 6 INCOMPLETIONS in those games... not to take all credit away from him because clearly did awesome in those games but do you think those stats are a product of Smith just being THAT amazing or maybe some schematic/athletic monster advantages the WVU coaches/players had on their opponents in those games.

So you see his overall numbers. GREAT numbers.

But against teams with good preparation, teams who disguised coverages and successfully confused him (unlike freaking doormat Baylor), it's very discouraging...

L @TTU: 5.0 ypa
L KState: 4.5 ypa
L TCU: 4.8 ypa
L @OKST: 6.7 ypa
L but he played well OU: 9.1 ypa, 4TD, 2 int (their D ******* sucked. JF made them look like they were playing 11-on-7).
WIN @ISU: 7.6
Aformentioned Kansas game: 17.0! Helps his stats just a litttttttttle.
L Syracuse: 7.2 and his offense scored 14 points...

So yeah, you can watch his cutup against Texas and see some pretty impressive stuff (and some red flags too), but these are all BAD performances by a Senior because defenses out-smarted him after watching his film. Not the be-all end-all of course, but it's not discouraging. And if you haven't seen his offense underperform, you didn't watch any of these games, clearly.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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FUNBUNCHER just reminded me of another red flag I initially had.

One of my general knocks on Jake Locker (and I'm not a big fan of generalizations but at times they can help paint a picture) was that he failed to improve much during his years at Washington.

Here's Geno Smith who improves each year, gets to that Baylor game, then the Texas game, then ALL OF THE SUDDEN, his play falls out DRASTICALLY. That's a HUGE freaking red flag whether you like him or not...

EDIT: And finally as the loudest Geno detractor here, I want to make something clear to separate myself from Nawroki....

I loved Cam Newton as a prospect.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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His play deteriorated drastically after the Texas game...

Yes his stats look great as a whole but they are absolutely inflated by horrible Baylor and Kansas defenses... he had 11 TDs and 6 INCOMPLETIONS in those games... not to take all credit away from him because clearly did awesome in those games but do you think those stats are a product of Smith just being THAT amazing or maybe some schematic/athletic monster advantages the WVU coaches/players had on their opponents in those games.

So you see his overall numbers. GREAT numbers.

But against teams with good preparation, teams who disguised coverages and successfully confused him (unlike freaking doormat Baylor), it's very discouraging...

L @TTU: 5.0 ypa
L KState: 4.5 ypa
L TCU: 4.8 ypa
L @OKST: 6.7 ypa
L but he played well OU: 9.1 ypa, 4TD, 2 int (their D ******* sucked. JF made them look like they were playing 11-on-7).
WIN @ISU: 7.6
Aformentioned Kansas game: 17.0! Helps his stats just a litttttttttle.
L Syracuse: 7.2 and his offense scored 14 points...

So yeah, you can watch his cutup against Texas and see some pretty impressive stuff (and some red flags too), but these are all BAD performances by a Senior because defenses out-smarted him after watching his film. Not the be-all end-all of course, but it's not discouraging. And if you haven't seen his offense underperform, you didn't watch any of these games, clearly.
1. we had no running game
2. our line sucked
3. when we would get down by more than 1 possession, game over; our defense couldnt stop anyone, so for example, the KSU game; they get the ball 1st, march right down the field take a 3-0 lead; we go 3 and out; ksu goes right down the field for a 10-0 lead; game was over at that point; its hard to stay in a game mentally knowing you have to be perfect for your team to win

if geno wasnt perfect against baylor or the 2nd half of texas (he went 10-11) we lose those 2 games as well because of our defense
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Give Geno credit for his white hot start to the 2012 season. It's not like teams didn't know who he was or didn't have film on WVU. Most teams in the Big 12 run some version of the spread offense, so lack of familiarity with him and the Mountaineer offense is a weak excuse for opponents.

TT and KState used that familiarity to shut down the Mountaineers offensive machine.

As for the overall season, Smith IMO had two bad games(TT, KState) and a poor performance in the bowl game.

Compare Geno Smith to the best QBs to come out of the Big 12 in recent years, and I'd rank him just below RG3, a push with Tannehill, and better than Weeden and Landry Jones.

I just didn't see a guy who game fell off drastically in 2012. He had a couple of bad games back to back, but then played well the rest of the season(last 5 games - @69% completions, 14 TDs/4 INTs).

Geno's best year was his last year at WVU, and he had a beast season in 2011. That wasn't true for Locker or Barkley.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I think he could possibly go as high as #9 to the Jets but I think Jacksonville and the Eagles aren't likely destinations.
Not sure i'd even try to figure out what the Jets are trying to do. I'm still seeing someone trading up into the 1st round to take Smith.

For me personally i'd probably rather go with Manuel or Barkley early in the second than Smith in the first.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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LOL. Nawrocki is getting ripped by John Clayton and Todd McShay on Mike & Mike for 'over-evaluating' Geno Smith.

Basically the claim that Geno Smith doesn't prepare and has a marginal work ethic has been refuted by everything Clayton and McShay have heard from staff and teammates at WVU about Smith.

So if that's the case, where does Nawrocki get that opinion from??

I'll be honest, I never heard of this guy until he ripped Cam Newton a new one a couple years ago. People say his draft analysis is solid. Whatever.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Whether you like Smith or not, there are legitimate questions about his ability to command a locker room based on all of the smoke.
..
This may be very well true, but let's be clear here, anybody who cannot read between the lines here with this guy is fooling themselves. What he dropped about Geno, and about Cam, is not a scouting report. It's basically an opportunity to take a **** on a guy in a massive way as well as a chance to get his name out there(and PFW) just like last year. He glossed over a few positives that was maybe 2 lines long, then he continued to take a dump on him that sounded he deserved a "umadbro" response more then anything.


I'm not saying he crossed the line or anything, and dude could very well be a bust, but what he did wasn't a scouting report. Barkley has far more things to not like then Geno does but somehow the high end of his comparison was a HOF QB.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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I might be in the minority here, but I really like Nolan Nawrocki. He really gets specific in his evaluations, and the PFW draft guide is by far the best draft publication each and every year. He's not afraid to put out really unpopular opinions that draw the kind of heat he's getting in this thread and elsewhere.

I am willing to bet that if he is willing to put out information this inflammatory, it is well-sourced. I have never detected anything slightly racial in his evaluations at all. I'm sure he'll plenty on not too flattering things to say about Tyler Bray as well as other white players with character flaws.

What I love about Nolan is he doesn't settle for the simple, generic "he has character questions" type of lazy criticism. He provides cogent, detailed assessments of a player's strengths and weaknesses both on and off the field and how those attributes will carry over to an NFL organization. He provides insight you don't get elsewhere.

If anyone can find me a scouting report by him where he trashes another prospect in the same manner as Geno or Cam then he'll have some credibility. Does anyone have that? Has he went anywhere near those two extremes on anyone else before? Because the 2 guys he's made his name off of were Cam & Geno.


Or better yet, has he used accusations that are either impossible to prove(like having a fake smile) or hard to prove correct on other scouting reports as well? It's fine to be harsh, but according to him neither of those 2 guys should even be drafted.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

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Old 04-02-2013, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Narwoki on Tyler Bray...

"Very immature and aloof. Has a short attention span and is not detail-oriented. Not a respected leader and often finds trouble because of a sense of entitlement. Uninspiring on-field body language and demeanor - not a commanding field general. Was pressed to become more of a leader and did not progress with too much of a relaxed, California cool personality."

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