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Old 04-08-2013, 08:52 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Honestly, I don't buy that. Elway didn't set ****. John Fox did. Give Elway credit for hiring a good coach, but let's not give him too much credit.

And Peyton Manning had a large part to do with those players developing as well. Again, let's give Elway credit for getting him, but that's it.

Peyton doesn't come to Denver if he doesn't have many of the players that the previous regime brought in. So while I commend Elway for doing a great job so far, it's unfair to give him credit for many things that happened before him or things that happened indirectly bc of him. That's not fair.

Let's just give him a couple more years before we throw him in the top 5. I think that's fair.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:44 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
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I agree to a point that give me a couple years, but where the Broncos were and where they are now is a night and day difference
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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So Elway gets one of the best QBs ever in FA and now he's a good GM?
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:31 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
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He brought in Fox, had the guts to trade Tebow and HE had the reputation that Manning wanted to come play for, he has had his hand in the drafting of players and the signing of players... so for where we were and where we are now i think it is pretty impressive.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Peyton doesn't come to the Broncos if you didn't have Thomas and Decker, and Clady. All guys who were drafted by the previous regime.

Elway definitely played a role, but come on, let's be real about the situation. He had plenty of help.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Oh for sure he doesnt come if we dont have them, but Thomas and Decker were some what of unknowns in the sense Thomas hadnt been healthy 100% since he was drafted and Decker was in the same boat. Clady was the only proven guy out of them, but they all played a role. But Elway is someone that people respect and he has pull... i think it is very rare for former players to be good at the GM position outside of Newsome and so far Elway, they usually dont pan out.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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Not sure how Elway isnt a lock on everyone's list. Dude took over a team that was in shambles and he took over a team that had the 2nd worst record. since then his team has won 2 division titles, acquired Peyton Manning, drafted the likes of Von Miller and just had the NFL's best record last year and the team looks to be getting stronger...
Easy, hes only been in charge for a couple years. Its all about sustaining success. His big moves have been drafting Von Miller and convincing Peyton to sign. Besides that, hes mostly benefited from playing in the worst division in football. John Fox was a good hiring. Everyone knew what Peyton was. Von Miller was a consensus top pick. Other key players on the team like Clady, Thomas, Decker, Champ, Woodyard,McGahee, Beadles, Dumervil, etc were there before Elway took over. Elway has not proven to be a good evaluator of talent yet. He hasnt proven he can effectively run a franchise. Yes, hes off to a great start. But cmon how could he possibly be on anyones list at this point.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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Trent Baalke has been the GM for the same length as Elway but some how he gets the nod?
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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He doesn't. Not to me at least. I just don't want to dive into another 49er debate bc those always end horribly.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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very true, i agree 100% that Elway needs a bigger sample of work, but as a Broncos fan im very glad the direction the team is going in.

And just like the 49ers that were terrible for most of the mid 2000's until recent it looks like Baalke is doing well also.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Elway, is well on his way to becoming a top GM, just needs a larger body of work to supplant any of the guys Pollian listed.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Elway, is well on his way to becoming a top GM, just needs a larger body of work to supplant any of the guys Pollian listed.
But how is some like the 49ers guy on the list with just as small of a body of work?


i mean this is just Polian's opinion, but i think its very biased... i mean Ozzie is a given but some of these guys have not been all that impressive or more impressive to warrent a spot.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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He doesn't. Not to me at least. I just don't want to dive into another 49er debate bc those always end horribly.
they're fine as long people cut down on the hyperbole and talk football. say whatever you want. If you say "i think Baalke doesn't deserve to be in the top 6; here are the reasons why" thats fine. If you just say "Baalke's overrated are you kidding me? smh rabble rabble" of course people are going to wonder wtf is going on.

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But how is some like the 49ers guy on the list with just as small of a body of work?


i mean this is just Polian's opinion, but i think its very biased... i mean Ozzie is a given but some of these guys have not been all that impressive or more impressive to warrent a spot.
I agree that it seems weird that some want Schneider and Baalke on this list (both in charge of their teams drafts since 2010) but don't want to consider Elway (in charge since 2011).

Elway has a impressive track record, 1 draft less than either of those guys. I think a major point in favor of Schneider/Baalke against Elway is the QB's. Wilson was the 75th pick; Kaepernick the 36th, and Elway signed Peyton Manning. Which is more impressive scouting? Obviously Elway gets some level of credit for Peyton but nobody is going to give Elway a massive amount of credit for signing him, and its his biggest personnel move too. There's the injury concerns but he wouldn't have been signed if he didn't check out physically. I do like that Elway took Von Miller over Marcel Dareus in 2011. Plenty of people here were ripping on him but he took the BPA and Broncos fans couldn't be happier.

I would place Elway out of the top 6, but close to the list anyway.

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Old 04-09-2013, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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they're fine as long people cut down on the hyperbole and talk football. say whatever you want.



I agree that it seems weird that some want Schneider and Baalke on this list (both in charge of their teams drafts since 2010) but don't want to consider Elway (in charge since 2011).

Elway has a impressive track record, 1 draft less than either of those guys. I think a major point in favor of Schneider/Baalke against Elway is the QB's. Wilson was the 75th pick; Kaepernick the 36th, and Elway signed Peyton Manning. Which is more impressive scouting? Obviously Elway gets some level of credit for Peyton but nobody is going to give Elway a massive amount of credit for signing him, and its his biggest personnel move too. There's the injury concerns but he wouldn't have been signed if he didn't check out physically. I do like that Elway took Von Miller over Marcel Dareus in 2011. Plenty of people here were ripping on him but he took the BPA and Broncos fans couldn't be happier.

I would place Elway out of the top 6, but close to the list anyway.
I agree with this when you do take in account that Kap and Wilson were late picks but then again by recruiting Manning, we were not reliant on having to draft a 2nd or 3rd round QB.

But as a Broncos fan Im pleased with Elway running the show because it could have been like Michael Jordan trying to run a team..some players just dont have it
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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How much does Elway actually "get his hands in the dirt" when it comes to scouting/talent evaluation?
As far as the Polian article goes, it is titled "NFLīs best talent evaluators" not "Best general managers", which would explain why he would leaves out Elway, but include Baalke who have worked his way up through the ranks from scout to Director of Player Personel before becoming a GM.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Prediction: the 2012 season is about as good as its gonna get for the Skins. Theyve got a few other nice pieces (Trent Williams, Alfred Morris, Ryan Kerrigan, Orakpo if he comes back strong), but this roster just has too many problems and they have too many cap issues and not enough draft picks. They are gonna finish dead last in the east this year, and probably next year too, prompting Shanahan to get fired. Maybe after that they will succesfully build a team around RG3, if Shanahan doesnt get him killed first. Or maybe RG3 will have to leave the Skins to really become a winner.
The fact that you mention cap issues tells me you have little grasp of what Allen has done to turn this roster around. The cap issues stem solely from two $18 million penalties. Next year they will have in excess of $30 million in cap room. they have retained all but two players without restructuring anyone to do it. They have retained all the pieces of their offense, they have kept their line in tact and created competition for the real weakness at RT.

The Secondary remains the biggest issue and I hated Hall coming back but in a draft with a lot of decent talent in the secondary we could help ourselves in the second and third round.

As for the Draft they have no first rounders for the next two seasons but otherwise have a full compliment and as the last two drafts have shown they are a Front Office that are able to garner more picks and parlay them into viable players.

Do I think they will win the division? Maybe not.Will they be competitive in the East yes I think so.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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How much does Elway actually "get his hands in the dirt" when it comes to scouting/talent evaluation?
As far as the Polian article goes, it is titled "NFLīs best talent evaluators" not "Best general managers", which would explain why he would leaves out Elway, but include Baalke who have worked his way up through the ranks from scout to Director of Player Personel before becoming a GM.
From what ive read and seen, Elway is the judge,jury and executioner when it comes to personell and he has talked about the scouting and breaking down film of players. This leads me to believe he is very hands on when it comes to not only the contract side but talent evaluating as well.. but i could be wrong.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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From what ive read and seen, Elway is the judge,jury and executioner when it comes to personell and he has talked about the scouting and breaking down film of players. This leads me to believe he is very hands on when it comes to not only the contract side but talent evaluating as well.. but i could be wrong.
Cool, thx. Was just wondering, since he didnt have any previous experience in that area, whereas the 6 names all have extensive experience in that field.
That being said, Elway has done a very good job so far as the head of the Broncos FO.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I don't buy that. Elway didn't set ****. John Fox did. Give Elway credit for hiring a good coach, but let's not give him too much credit.

And Peyton Manning had a large part to do with those players developing as well. Again, let's give Elway credit for getting him, but that's it.

Peyton doesn't come to Denver if he doesn't have many of the players that the previous regime brought in. So while I commend Elway for doing a great job so far, it's unfair to give him credit for many things that happened before him or things that happened indirectly bc of him. That's not fair.

Let's just give him a couple more years before we throw him in the top 5. I think that's fair.
Also Elway didn't have much competition for Peyton. Peyton eliminated the entire NFC, the Jets, and he wasn't going back to the Colts. So Elway had 13 other teams to compete with, of which Peyton probably only really ever considered maybe 1 or 2 because of overall talent and existing franchise QBs. Where else was Peyton going to actually sign?

The one thing I give Elway credit for was never EVER even considering Tebow worth anything.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Also Elway didn't have much competition for Peyton. Peyton eliminated the entire NFC, the Jets, and he wasn't going back to the Colts. So Elway had 13 other teams to compete with, of which Peyton probably only really ever considered maybe 1 or 2 because of overall talent and existing franchise QBs. Where else was Peyton going to actually sign?

The one thing I give Elway credit for was never EVER even considering Tebow worth anything.
Peyton was seriously considering the 49ers if i remember correctly
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Peyton was seriously considering the 49ers if i remember correctly
He visited them but most people thought he was never serious. Peyton made it pretty clear after the fact that he never considered going to the NFC.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Peyton didn't go to SF because Harbaugh wouldn't give him complete offensive control. Elway had a prior relationship with Manning and he let's him run the offense like he wants.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Peyton didn't go to SF because Harbaugh wouldn't give him complete offensive control. Elway had a prior relationship with Manning and he let's him run the offense like he wants.
He didn't go because he didn't want to compete with his brother. Same reason why he didn't consider the Jets.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Peyton didn't go to SF because Harbaugh wouldn't give him complete offensive control. Elway had a prior relationship with Manning and he let's him run the offense like he wants.
I happen to believe the 49ers when they said they weren't willing to spend all that money on him. Maybe I'm just biased, but over paying for a FA doesn't seem to fit our philosophy.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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I happen to believe the 49ers when they said they weren't willing to spend all that money on him. Maybe I'm just biased, but over paying for a FA doesn't seem to fit our philosophy.
They would have paid up for Manning. He is one of the best QBs of all time. They would have found a way if they had a fit. It was a difference between Harbaughs offense and personality being a bad fit with Manning.
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