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Old 04-08-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
Hurricanes25
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Originally Posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
I haven't heard the name Tyler Wilson mentioned in months. I hope he's the one the Jets get...
Yeah, if the Jets do select a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds (god, I hope they don't), Tyler Wilson is the one I want.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Wilson has some tremendous junior tape, and he showed high character, leadership and toughness during the chaos that was Arkansas this past season.
I'm not sure who he had to throw to this year outside of Cobi Hamilton, but he lost 3 WRs to the NFL last year in Greg Childs, Jarius Wright, and Joe Adams.

Did a quick internet search. Some guy on nfl.com has him rated as his #1 QB as of today (4/8). Not that that means anything, but we aren't the only ones high on him.

Terry Shea, a QB guru who worked with RG3 last year and other top QB prospects in the past (Bradford, Freeman, Stafford) as well as some other top QB's in this year draft says that he'd take Wilson as the first QB in this years draft.

We'll see. Wilson just seems to have that "it" factor when I watch him play. Maybe not "elite" in any of the big categories that come to mind, but a very solid all around QB to me.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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Tyler Wilson is a complete natural when it comes to subtlety avoiding pressure and still getting off an accurate pass. That's what makes him so good. **** stats.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
Tyler Wilson is a complete natural when it comes to subtlety avoiding pressure and still getting off an accurate pass. That's what makes him so good. **** stats.
So you're ga-ga over Wilson because of his pocket presence???
I was optimistic about Wilson heading into the 2012 season and thought he had a chance to solidify himself as a top 10 prospect. Right now I have no idea where he rates in this class. I have a total blind spot on him.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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There is alot NOT to like about Wilson:
1. small hands
2. slightly below average arm strength
3. 40% of his passes were within 1-5yrds. Thats alot.
4. intermediate accuracy is very poor, and deep accuracy is below average. Many of his incompletions deep were underthrows which hints at his below average arm strength.

Although he did a better job at avoiding pressure in 2012 compared to 2011, it seemed he also checked the ball down alot more in 2012 too. I just dont see how Wilson would be a good fit for a cold weather, windy location like NY.

Many fans like to think of Wilson as a "gunslinger", but he is firing away with a squirt gun instead of a cannon. Farve, Flacco, and Kapernick can get away with that because they have the arm strength to squeeze the ball between defenders. Wilson does not. heck, he didnt even get away with that in college (as evidenced by his average TD/INT ratio).

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Old 04-09-2013, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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Brilliant idea to breakdown stats on a quarterback who played with a terrible offensive line and a limited arsenal to go to battle with in the nation's toughest conference.

Wilson does not have below average arm strength. His arm isn't quite as strong as Geno's but it's stronger than, let's say, a Matt Barkley.

He was forced to check down quite a bit because of limited time to actually operate within the pocket, and Cobi Hamilton was the only receiver he had who could challenge intermediate and deep. Many times he didn't have a pocket to step up into and later in the season it became apparent that he struggled with trusting the offensive line that he'd have a pocket to work with even if it was there.

Wilson doesn't have the "gunslinger" arm strength of a Favre, but his game does resemble Tony Romo's and while Romo gets bashed a lot, he is a very good quarterback.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Brilliant idea to breakdown stats on a quarterback who played with a terrible offensive line and a limited arsenal to go to battle with in the nation's toughest conference.
Many qbs including Geno Smith and Tyler Bray had to deal with poor offensive lines. Bray too played in the SEC, but had less turnovers than Wilson.


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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Wilson does not have below average arm strength. His arm isn't quite as strong as Geno's but it's stronger than, let's say, a Matt Barkley.
I disagre. Wilson's poor arm-strength was evident at the Senior Bowl. I actually think Barkley's arm is stronger.

Even if you look at his 2011 season under Petrino, Wilson was poor in intermediate throws.

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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Tony Romo's and while Romo gets bashed a lot, he is a very good quarterback.
I agree, but I dont think Wilson has the accuracy or arm strength of Romo
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Brilliant idea to breakdown stats on a quarterback who played with a terrible offensive line and a limited arsenal to go to battle with in the nation's toughest conference.

Wilson does not have below average arm strength. His arm isn't quite as strong as Geno's but it's stronger than, let's say, a Matt Barkley.

He was forced to check down quite a bit because of limited time to actually operate within the pocket, and Cobi Hamilton was the only receiver he had who could challenge intermediate and deep. Many times he didn't have a pocket to step up into and later in the season it became apparent that he struggled with trusting the offensive line that he'd have a pocket to work with even if it was there.

Wilson doesn't have the "gunslinger" arm strength of a Favre, but his game does resemble Tony Romo's and while Romo gets bashed a lot, he is a very good quarterback.
You've made it your mission to overrate Wilson. I don't know if you have noticed, but many do not agree with you.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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You've made it your mission to overrate Wilson. I don't know if you have noticed, but many do not agree with you.
I am not too concerned if people agree with my assessment of players.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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I am not too concerned if people agree with my assessment of players.
Then why do you keep pimping Wilson? Obviously, you do care.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Then why do you keep pimping Wilson? Obviously, you do care.
All I care about is having a good debate/discussion.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Not one of these QBs has anything special about them, so just find the one you like. I just don't see a huge gap between the top 4ish QBs.

what I worry about with Geno is what Greg Cosell called slow eyes. He said it takes Geno just a beat too long to see it and make the play. I'm not sure how quick Geno gets through his reads and if he can get to his 3rd+ read with consistency.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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That is the issue I have always noticed with Smith.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Not one of these QBs has anything special about them, so just find the one you like. I just don't see a huge gap between the top 4ish QBs.

what I worry about with Geno is what Greg Cosell called slow eyes. He said it takes Geno just a beat too long to see it and make the play. I'm not sure how quick Geno gets through his reads and if he can get to his 3rd+ read with consistency.
This is pretty much exactly what I was saying a couple pages back.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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This is pretty much exactly what I was saying a couple pages back.
For a guy who played behind an Oline that struggled in pass pro, I don't really think Smith's biggest problem as a QB is 'slow eyes'.
We'll know soon enough.

I think it's more an issue of Geno learning the importance of tempo and timing for an offense in the pros. He's going to have to adapt to it just like any other rookie QB.

I don't think I've ever seen a college QB play with the same kind of tempo after the snap that a good NFL QB does.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Not one of these QBs has anything special about them, so just find the one you like. I just don't see a huge gap between the top 4ish QBs.

what I worry about with Geno is what Greg Cosell called slow eyes. He said it takes Geno just a beat too long to see it and make the play. I'm not sure how quick Geno gets through his reads and if he can get to his 3rd+ read with consistency.
Cosell is right on the money here, and in 5 years, everyone is going to look back on this kid as they did back on Akili Smith, JaMarc Russell, and wonder how people were so fooled by a strong arm/athletic dude.

Mike Mayock agrees with Greg Cosell:

"He has no awareness of the rush surrounding him. So his pocket awareness ... 30, 32 fumbles in his career ... five sacks in the first half against Texas, three of them he could have gotten rid of the football easily and one of them he was stripped of the football in the end zone for a touchdown. There is no internal clock, there is no feel. Deep ball accuracy, I've put reel together of six to eight throws that should have been touchdowns; wide-open vertical guys that he overthrew or underthrew.

The more tape I watch -- and this is common of a lot of talented, big-arm quarterbacks -- he stares down receivers and he throws the football late. So there is a lack of anticipation and timing. Now, having said all of those things, I recognize the big arm, the athletic ability; he's a great athlete, he's a natural thrower of the football. I just don't see it enough on tape. I couldn't take him in the top 10, I don't think I could take him in the top 20. This entire quarterback class on tape frustrates me."

-- Mike Mayock, the NFL Network analyst, on West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2Q7fiJG00
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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The reasons that Jamarcus and Akili busted have nothing at all to do with Geno.
Stop focusing so much on their paint jobs.
Jamarcus was LAZY and a substance abuser. Akili Smith was LAZY and unmotivated.

What similarity do they have with Geno????

Not giving a damn about the rush is not the same as having no awareness of the pass rush. You can't blast a guy for being skittish in the pocket and bailing on a play from the mere sight of a defender, then bash another QB for acting like he's impervious to any blitz known to man.

The guy threw 42 TDs last season. You can say you'd like to see slightly better deep ball accuracy from him, but if you're arguing that it's a flaw in his game you're off base. So you found examples of his missing on deep balls last season?? And....??

What I don't get is when people look at his body of work, there's almost this assumption that Geno Smith isn't coachable and all his flaws are hardwired.
His efficiency and level of production in college don't count for a thing.

You would think a good QB coach would look at Geno and think, 'I can work with that guy. I can coach him up.'

I will agree that Smith sometimes throws the ball late and he waits for his WR to come open before he throws. But it's not the majority of his throws.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:43 AM    (permalink
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Why do you like him so much?
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:20 AM    (permalink
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Why do you like him so much?
Because I think he's the best QB in this draft by a significant margin and will be at least a solid NFL QB, if not better.

There are legitimate critiques of his game, but suggesting it's a significant knock against him because he wasn't accurate on some deep balls, or has 'slow eyes', or lacks pocket presence because he basically refused to honor the pass rush, or scramble from the pocket when he could have extended plays with his legs(but for some odd reason inexplicably chose not to), are minor criticisms that can be corrected I think with NFL coaching.

I do have a problem when a top QB prospect like Geno can't pull himself out a tailspin in games where the Mountaineers are being dominated on offense and still find a way to string together some scoring drives and be productive.

Andrew Luck never played subpar or inconsistently for an entire game. Neither did RGIII or Newton.

I understand why Geno isn't considered the consensus #1 overall pick, but I also don't get why he isn't thought to be a can't miss lock to go in the top 10.

Geno has those head-scratching games where you wonder why didn't he play more like a future franchise QB if that's his profile, but he also has those games where he looks like a cyborg. His games against Baylor, OU, Texas, Clemson in the Orange Bowl and to a lesser extent LSU last year are unmatched by any QB in this class.

I get that Smith isn't a flawless prospect. But when did he become an inferior prospect??

IMO Geno's upside at the position is better than the known quantities the Chiefs/Bills/Browns/Raiders/Cardinals currently have on their rosters.

And now it's looking like all of them are going to pass on Geno in the first round.

I have no problems discussing his flaws, but comparing him to Jamarcus Russell or Akili Smith, or saying he looks like a bust is really obnoxious IMO.

I look at his physical skills, work ethic, football IQ and top level production and see a guy who should go high in the top half of the first round.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:56 AM    (permalink
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Because I think he's the best QB in this draft by a significant margin and will be at least a solid NFL QB, if not better.
SIG-WORTHY right there...... hold onto that one.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:01 AM    (permalink
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SIG-WORTHY right there...... hold onto that one.
LOL. You act like the notion isn't even debatable.

Off the top, in five years rank the top 5 QBs in this draft. Just curious how you see them.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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Because I think he's the best QB in this draft by a significant margin and will be at least a solid NFL QB, if not better.
agree. He has the physical tools, has flashed play making ability, protects the football, and has a ton of experience in multiple offensive systems.

For a college career he has had 1465 passing attempts. That is far more than Wilson (948), Manuel (897), Bray (922), Barkley (1001), Glennon (1069), and Nassib (1312). Only Landry Jones has attempted more, but he hasn't been able to carry a loaded OU team.

That experience will serve Geno well.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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Off the top, in five years rank the top 5 QBs in this draft. Just curious how you see them.
1. Tyler Wilson
2. Geno Smith
3. Matt Barkley
4. Matt Scott
5. Ryan Griffin (just to throw a sleeper in there)
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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BBD, I don't think it's fair for you to bash these low-risk, low-cost moves and not hitch your wagon to a QB.

Calub and I's opinions on this QB class are based on specific evaluations of each QB.

You have put yourself in a position where if Nassib is taken in the 2nd and ends up being good, you can say "see - this class wasn't that bad - x, y, z messed up by passing on Nassib for Kevin freaking Kolb."

You seem to be saying "I don't care what QB you draft - but draft one of them" which is a cop out.

And if you like Geno Smith and no one else, then how is what Buffalo's done with Kolb a bad move considering there's a good chance they don't even have an opportunity to get him.

So what QBs are these GMs so awful for not drafting?
I'm rolling with Geno. I think his issues are correctable and he can develop into a good quarterback with the right coaching.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Nawrocki talking about Geno Smith's early season six months ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFBUExypME

Does not look like a racial issue to me.
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