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Old 04-15-2013, 09:13 AM    (permalink
princefielder28
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Originally Posted by Robcards View Post
If you're placing Scott there for upside, Bray is still better. Best arm in the draft and I don't think it's close, huge bust potential but arguably the most potential of any qb in the draft. Just saying, and I'm not a fan of ranking players high purely on potential either.
Bray has the physical tools, but I don't think he has what it takes between the ears to be what he could be.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:28 AM    (permalink
energizerbunny
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You need to flip Frederick & Jones, that's my only criticism on the Oline, I can appreciate all the other rankings.

Wilson as your #1 is smart, with such an average group of QBs the smart money is putting it on a guy that conventional media isn't currently behind, and also a guy that has the tools and could eventually end up being the best in 5 years.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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To add, the reason I think Frederick should be there....

He is the only guy in this draft i'd be comfortable leaving 1 on 1 with a war-daddy nose tackle. That has value beyond belief in the NFL as it allows you to dictate your blocking scheme to the defense, not that other way around. If he isn't off the board by the 2nd someone is going to get a massive steal.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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To add, the reason I think Frederick is that he is the only guy in this draft i'd be comfortable leaving 1 on 1 with a war-daddy nose tackle. That has value beyond belief in the NFL as it allows you to dictate your blocking scheme to the defense, not that other way around. If he isn't off the board by the 2nd someone is going to get a massive steal.
I agree with your point on going 1-on-1 with the nose, and I feel his best fit is as guard because after watching the Badgers all season, that just seems to be his better fit. I won't fault any team for placing him at center if that's where they see him best in their system, but if I were running a team I'd go with guard.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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I agree with your point on going 1-on-1 with the nose, and I feel his best fit is as guard because after watching the Badgers all season, that just seems to be his better fit. I won't fault any team for placing him at center if that's where they see him best in their system, but if I were running a team I'd go with guard.
If I play in a division where I am consistently facing a Nose tackle, in my opinion he is a 1st round pick. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have your Center consistently getting collapsed into the pocket by a War-Daddy Nose tackle. You need to completely shift/combo your protection in ways that make you vulnerable elsewhere.

I see where you are getting that guard stuff from, as he is clearly stout and strong enough to play there, but IMO his true value comes from playing center.

Maybe that's just my ideology that if a guy can play Center, you play him at Center.... and not put him at LG.

Heck, we could see a team take him and play him next season as a guard and eventually move him back... like the Falcons did with Konz last season. (Frederick is a better prospect than Konz).
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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Good Job PrinceFielder. I agree with the other people that if you not with the norm of what people perceive as the draft rankings than you are going to get ripped on here like every other site. People hear this is a 1st round guy and this guy has no shot to be beyond the 3rd from media types and they take it as a given that that information is true.

I love people who go outside of what is "common thinking" and does their own thing. I am the same way. I dont necessarily agree with all of your rankings but I do like the fact that you have your own way of thinking whether right or wrong. I wish more people were like this and could think outside of a box and come to their own conclusions instead of believing all of the mush that they are fed leading up to the draft on a daily basis.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Default Well prince...

These are the facts on Mr. Wilson thus far. He was drafted in the 4th round. Now, he is currently running 4th string behind....UDFA Matt McGloin!
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:49 AM    (permalink
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These are the facts on Mr. Wilson thus far. He was drafted in the 4th round. Now, he is currently running 4th string behind....UDFA Matt McGloin!
so you're saying we're gonna get more of this in the pros
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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Really not too hard to imagine McGloin making few mistakes and mental errors in practice.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:11 AM    (permalink
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These are the facts on Mr. Wilson thus far. He was drafted in the 4th round. Now, he is currently running 4th string behind....UDFA Matt McGloin!
What's your point? Adam Weber was ahead of Tim Tebow in Denver's camp at one point too, and how's he doing? It's his first training camp so let's relax a bit.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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What's your point? Adam Weber was ahead of Tim Tebow in Denver's camp at one point too, and how's he doing? It's his first training camp so let's relax a bit.
Ah, doing better than Tebow? Not sure what you were trying to prove there.

My point is your evaluation of Wilson was horrid, bro. People tried to tell you.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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What's your point? Adam Weber was ahead of Tim Tebow in Denver's camp at one point too, and how's he doing? It's his first training camp so let's relax a bit.
I don't think anyone here is trying to say McGloin is good...

Also, I'm not sure if comparing the guy you said you'd take #1 overall by your rankings to Tim Tebow is the direction you want to go.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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We're a couple weeks into the preseason and writing a player off, especially a quarterback at this point, is ridiculous. Wilson is coming from the Bobby Petrino system, which has shown does not make a smooth transition for quarterbacks moving to the NFL, and Wilson is battling the position more from a mental end than physical. McGloin came from a pro style system with Bill O'Brien, and he is much further along in the mental curve and can operate his marginal abilities far better than Wilson so far. We have seen plenty of quarterbacks recently who have stepped in and had immediate success and others not so much. The biggest hurdle for a quarterback like Wilson is the mental side, not the physical, and god forbid that it may take a year for him to learn the mental aspect of the game. Oakland isn't set up to put a quarterback, young or old, in a position to be successful and the last thing I'd want for a young quarterback like Wilson is to place him behind a turnstile offensive line with minimal talent at the skilled positions.
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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We're a couple weeks into the preseason and writing a player off, especially a quarterback at this point, is ridiculous. Wilson is coming from the Bobby Petrino system, which has shown does not make a smooth transition for quarterbacks moving to the NFL, and Wilson is battling the position more from a mental end than physical. McGloin came from a pro style system with Bill O'Brien, and he is much further along in the mental curve and can operate his marginal abilities far better than Wilson so far. We have seen plenty of quarterbacks recently who have stepped in and had immediate success and others not so much. The biggest hurdle for a quarterback like Wilson is the mental side, not the physical, and god forbid that it may take a year for him to learn the mental aspect of the game. Oakland isn't set up to put a quarterback, young or old, in a position to be successful and the last thing I'd want for a young quarterback like Wilson is to place him behind a turnstile offensive line with minimal talent at the skilled positions.
Again, you seem to be misinterpreting the sentiments expressed here. I don't think anyone is 'writing him off' as you say. I think Black Bolt was making fun of how you (and countless others on this forum) had Tyler Wilson as your #1 QB or #1 overall prospect and he is currently projected to not make it past final cuts in favor of an UDFA.

I also don't understand the last sentence of this post. Are you implying that McGloin and the other Raiders' QBs do not have the same turnstile offensive line and minimal talent at skill positions? Not sure what point you're trying to make there.

While there is still a chance he turns it around, I think the odds of that are fairly low. Much like A.J. Jenkins last year, the writing is on the wall here if he can't get up the depth chart with the abysmal talent ahead of him. However unlike Jenkins, the 4th round guaranteed money is far less prohibitive of simply cutting him.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:11 AM    (permalink
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I think everyone can agree that if you can't beat out McGloin or Mark Sanchez you probably are a terrible failure.

The only QB year 1 that is going to be worth a damn is EJ and he was the prospect on the list that received a TON of flak.

That being said it was a terrible excuse for a QB class.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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I think everyone can agree that if you can't beat out McGloin or Mark Sanchez you probably are a terrible failure.

The only QB year 1 that is going to be worth a damn is EJ and he was the prospect on the list that received a TON of flak.

That being said it was a terrible excuse for a QB class.
I don't think Geno is a terrible failure if Sanchez is the week 1 starter, that's a bit different. Sanchez has 4 years of starting NFL experience on Geno so its not at all like Wilson vs McGloin. I don't think there's anyone who thinks Geno isn't going to be the Jets starter at some point this season. He's hasn't been bad in camp or the one pre-season game, he just hasn't been amazing which is what he would need to be to win the starting job outright at this stage. If he continues to perform as he has, it will continue to be a tie going into week 1 and the tie will go to Idzik's man.

PS- Say what you want about Sanchez, he is still better than any QB on the Raiders roster.
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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PS- Say what you want about Sanchez, he is still better than any QB on the Raiders roster.
Now that's just wishful thinking...
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Now that's just wishful thinking...
The Raiders best QB is Matt Flynn. Really, dude? You wan't to debate this?
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Well, we aren't 100% positive that Matt Flynn is complete dogshit yet, whereas we are well aware that Sanchez will ever be anything more than complete dogshit.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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That's absurd Rob. Sanchez is probably the worst starting QB in the NFL.



Sanchez is BY FAR more entertaining than any Raiders QB I'll give him that.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
Robcards
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One play doesn't make your argument. Or or one game. I'd like to see what Matt Flynn does with 64 starts. He won't get that many because he'll be on the street next season. I can't believe I actually have to defend Sanchez here, but saying he's worse than Gabbert and Flynn is just insanity.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:58 PM    (permalink
Robcards
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Originally Posted by prock View Post
Well, we aren't 100% positive that Matt Flynn is complete dogshit yet, whereas we are well aware that Sanchez will ever be anything more than complete dogshit.
Ok calm down, I hate Sanchez as much as anyone as a Jets fan, but the guy is still the 30th best quarterback in the world so relax on the 'complete dogshit' lol
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:45 PM    (permalink
RCAChainGang
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How do we even know what Flynn is capable of? This is his first time with the keys. I don't think you can even try to rate him with starters yet. It isn't that he is better or worse we just really don't have a clue.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:23 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
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Flynn put up some big numbers in limited opportunities. From a skill level nothing really separates him from Sanchez, I think they are both similar QBs with similar attributes. Flynn seems to take the game more seriously though, he isn't the showtime QB Sanchez is. I think the Raiders will do him more favors with the offense than the Jets did for Sanchez. I think his time in Green Bay under McCarthy really helped his development. Sanchez did not have that benefit.
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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We're a couple weeks into the preseason and writing a player off, especially a quarterback at this point, is ridiculous. Wilson is coming from the Bobby Petrino system, which has shown does not make a smooth transition for quarterbacks moving to the NFL, and Wilson is battling the position more from a mental end than physical. McGloin came from a pro style system with Bill O'Brien, and he is much further along in the mental curve and can operate his marginal abilities far better than Wilson so far. We have seen plenty of quarterbacks recently who have stepped in and had immediate success and others not so much. The biggest hurdle for a quarterback like Wilson is the mental side, not the physical, and god forbid that it may take a year for him to learn the mental aspect of the game. Oakland isn't set up to put a quarterback, young or old, in a position to be successful and the last thing I'd want for a young quarterback like Wilson is to place him behind a turnstile offensive line with minimal talent at the skilled positions.
What? No amount of excuses for Wilson is going to change the outcome of this discussion. You evaluation was terrible, that's all. The Raiders are in search of better QB play and their situation is about as open as any team in the league. The table is set, but Wilson doesn't want to eat, period. Don't give me that crap about the system he came out of. You knew the system when you were overrating him, so you don't get to make that excuse now. The fact is, Pryor who the current regime did not draft is two spots ahead of him. McGloin, who was not drafted, is ahead of him. And the reason they are ahead of him is because they have outplayed him. Hell, Pryor just admitted he just learned how to properly throw the ball two weeks ago! Right now, Wilson is looking like a very poor man's Chad Hene.
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