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Old 04-13-2013, 03:04 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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Originally Posted by PACKmanN View Post
LOL WUT

how does Jones beat White in talent, but he isn't better?
do i really have to answer? OK, there is obviously more to this game than talent. Theres football IQ, hands, route running savvy, consistency, nerves/being clutch...Jerry Rice is hands down the best receiver of all time. In terms of pure talent, hes not even close to the top when you consider the other athletic beasts out there. Not saying Roddy is Jerry, but if you think about the Jerry Rice-Randy Moss comparison, I think it applies to Roddy/Julio. Neither of them is as good as their legendary counterpart im comparing them to, but I think there are similarities.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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do i really have to answer? OK, there is obviously more to this game than talent. Theres football IQ, hands, route running savvy, consistency, nerves/being clutch...Jerry Rice is hands down the best receiver of all time. In terms of pure talent, hes not even close to the top when you consider the other athletic beasts out there. Not saying Roddy is Jerry, but if you think about the Jerry Rice-Randy Moss comparison, I think it applies to Roddy/Julio. Neither of them is as good as their legendary counterpart im comparing them to, but I think there are similarities.
Having a refined skillset is also 'talent'. It's not just pure physical ability.
I just don't think however you want to define it that Roddy White is either more talented or a better overall WR than Julio Jones.
That's no knock on Roddy, just that he's playing with a guy who might be among the 5 most talented WRs in the NFL.

Julio is more than just big and fast.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't White play the X?

That says it all right there. When he's the Z and Jones is the X, then Jones will have overtaken him.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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If rodgers was their #1 back, yes thats a problem. But in some situations, he can be an explosive playmaker. To have him as a scatback, that is a very nice weapon. When hes your 6th best offensive weapon, thats great. The D cant spend too much attention on him, and he can gash some one for a big play. Versatility is important on offense, and having a good scat back is very important in this league for certain packages/situations, and I think Rodgers is one of the top backup running backs out there and a great scat back...Let SJax wear the D out pounding b/w the tackles, and then throw Rodgers in there with his fresh legs and see if he doesnt rip off some nice gains.

Same for Douglas, wouldnt be hyping him as a starter, but when hes your #3, thats damn good. They gotta put their two best on Roddy and Julio and give safety help. That means favorable matchups for your slot guy. When you have a good player as your #3, and the Falcons do, they can take advantage of that.
Rodgers just hasn't done much to show that he is as good as you say he is. He hasn't produced very much so far to put him in that "good" category. I mean, one of the top backup RB's? A guy who has yet to average over 4 yards a carry. He's average.
Same with Douglas, he's average. You are overrating two average players. That isn't a negative on them really.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:20 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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Rodgers just hasn't done much to show that he is as good as you say he is. He hasn't produced very much so far to put him in that "good" category. I mean, one of the top backup RB's? A guy who has yet to average over 4 yards a carry. He's average.
Same with Douglas, he's average. You are overrating two average players. That isn't a negative on them really.
they had 400 receiving yards apiece last year. When you consider that they played in an offense with two 1000 yard WRs, and a 90 catch, 900 yard TE, you have to realize that is good production. Rodgers didnt get a ton of play, and his numbers dont scream out, but when I watch him, I see a pretty special player. I cant think of many change of pace backs Id take over him. Cant think of a whole lot of teams w better slot receivers than Douglas either. Not trying to get too carried away w my praise of these guys but I was just making the point that they have pro bowlers across the board starting at the skill positions, and very capable backups on top of it.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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Having a refined skillset is also 'talent'. It's not just pure physical ability.
I just don't think however you want to define it that Roddy White is either more talented or a better overall WR than Julio Jones.
That's no knock on Roddy, just that he's playing with a guy who might be among the 5 most talented WRs in the NFL.

Julio is more than just big and fast.
i dunno thats just not generally how its talked about. When you talk about talent, its usually more natural ability, not the stuff where you learn and improve the finer points of your game. Film study doesnt generally fall into the talent category. Having a good work ethic is not generally reffered to as talent. Working on footwork and release technique is not usually considered talent. If you wanna look at it that way, than I would have to say Roddy is more "talented" than Julio. Julio is a better athlete though.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Dat chip doh.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Roddy is kind of overrated he drops to much across the middle for my liking and he doesn't really step up in big moments all too much. Yeah him burning Sherman was clutch but what other times has he done something like that?
Well there was that winning touchdown against Baltimore a couple years back.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Roddy is kind of overrated he drops to much across the middle for my liking and he doesn't really step up in big moments all too much. Yeah him burning Sherman was clutch but what other times has he done something like that?
11 for 84 and a TD
6 for 57 and a TD
5 for 52 (the 24-2 beatdown by the Giants)
5 for 76 and a TD
7 for 100

Those are Roddy's career playoff game logs. 3 games with a TD and another with 100 yards. At least 5 catches in every game. I'd consider that stepping up in big moments.

I love Roddy and think he's a top 10 WR in the NFL. That said, I'd still take Julio over him.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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just for conversation sake this is how Id rate receivers currently

1. Megatron
2. AJ Green
3. Andre Johnson
4. Fitzgerald
5. Roddy White
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Reggie Wayne
8. Julio Jones
9. Vincent Jackson
10. Demaryus Thomas
11. Dez Bryant
12. Torrey Smith
13. Michael Crabtree
14. Percy Harvin
15. Steve Smith
16. Marques Colston
17. Victor Cruz
18. Greg Jennings
19. Anquan Boldin
20. Desean Jackson
21. Wes Welker
22. Stevie Johnson
23. Mike Wallace
24. Dwayne Bowe
25. James Jones
26. Antonio Brown
27. Eric Decker
28. Jordy Nelson
29. Hakeem Nicks
30. Randall Cobb
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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just for conversation sake this is how Id rate receivers currently

1. Megatron
2. AJ Green
3. Andre Johnson
4. Fitzgerald
5. Roddy White
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Reggie Wayne
8. Julio Jones
9. Vincent Jackson
10. Demaryus Thomas
11. Dez Bryant
12. Torrey Smith
13. Michael Crabtree
14. Percy Harvin
15. Steve Smith
16. Marques Colston
17. Victor Cruz
18. Greg Jennings
19. Anquan Boldin
20. Desean Jackson
21. Wes Welker
22. Stevie Johnson
23. Mike Wallace
24. Dwayne Bowe
25. James Jones
26. Antonio Brown
27. Eric Decker
28. Jordy Nelson
29. Hakeem Nicks
30. Randall Cobb
I'm sure most of these guys would be on my top 30 list as well, with a few changes here and there. Torrey Smith at 12 and Desean Jackson at 20 are two I strongly disagree with. You are also a bigger fan of Vincent Jackson's than I. All three of them would move down on my list. DJax might not be in my top 30. I think Bowe would rank considerably higher on this list if he wasn't stuck in Kansas City his whole career.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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Hakeem Nicks at 29 is hilarious.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I want to clarify one point that seems to be a popular belief:

Roddy White did not burn Richard Sherman. If you go back and look at that play, they were in zone coverage, and Sherman was playing his outside shoulder.

In that coverage, he plays White outside, and if White runs a fade to the corner he picks him up. If he runs a streak White gets doubled, outside by Sherman and inside by the SS, Chancellor.

If White runs a skinny, which he did, then the SS picks him up and Sherman passes him off.

And that's what Sherman did, he made the right move, he saw White run the skinny and he passes him up. The problem was, Chancellor made an error in creeping up to defend Gonzalez underneath when he didn't need to.

In that split second, White gets open. He has 2 steps inside on Sherman and by then it's too late. Sherman tried to recover and save the TD but it was too late, White catches the TD, and everyone thinks Sherman got burned.

But that's not accurate. Sherman did not get burned, Kam did.

And to Sherman's credit, he never threw his teammate under the bus.

Sherman actually shut White down in that game when he was in press man with him. That one TD that White had wasn't on Sherman.

A lot of times we make the mistake of seeing a guy chase down a WR and assume he was the one that got burned, but that's not always true. This was a scenario where it looked like Sherman got beat but he really didnt.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Hakeem Nicks at 29 is hilarious.
a year ago he woulda been much higher than 29 on everyones list...one injury-riddled year and its a joke that he should be regarded highly?
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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a year ago he woulda been much higher than 29 on everyones list...one injury-riddled year and its a joke that he should be regarded highly?
I think he was saying that he should be ranked higher than 29th?
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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IMO there aren't 10 WRs in the NFL better than Dez Bryant/Torrey Smith/Victor Cruz.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4KyHu_LrWU

I would say DT is someone that people need to start mentioning in the top WR's.

Since week 12 of 2011 he has been on FIRE, considering he was coming from an option offense, had Tebow to deal with ..... he has dealt with everything and developed into one of the few good things Josh McDaniels did for the broncos.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4KyHu_LrWU

I would say DT is someone that people need to start mentioning in the top WR's.

Since week 12 of 2011 he has been on FIRE, considering he was coming from an option offense, had Tebow to deal with ..... he has dealt with everything and developed into one of the few good things Josh McDaniels did for the broncos.
DT would be a starter on arguably EVERY team in the NFL. Like him a lot.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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I find it hysterical that Roddy White is somehow Robin to Julio's Batman, according to at least one poster. There is no doubt that Roddy is and has always been Matt Ryan's favorite target.

Roddy and the group of Fitz, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Julio, AJ Green, and Brandon Marshall are the NFL's elite wide receivers.

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Roddy is kind of overrated he drops to much across the middle for my liking and he doesn't really step up in big moments all too much. Yeah him burning Sherman was clutch but what other times has he done something like that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLB3BUcv0bE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiZ4yFKL_II

The Panthers one should have been a ninety-nine yard TD.

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IMO there aren't 10 WRs in the NFL better than Dez Bryant/Torrey Smith/Victor Cruz.
Smith and Cruz are not top ten options and I don't find it close. I do think Bryant is right outside or maybe even in the grouping of the other guys I listed, which would put him in the top eight.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:42 AM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
I find it hysterical that Roddy White is somehow Robin to Julio's Batman, according to at least one poster. There is no doubt that Roddy is and has always been Matt Ryan's favorite target.

Roddy and the group of Fitz, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Julio, AJ Green, and Brandon Marshall are the NFL's elite wide receivers.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLB3BUcv0bE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiZ4yFKL_II

The Panthers one should have been a ninety-nine yard TD.



Smith and Cruz are not top ten options and I don't find it close. I do think Bryant is right outside or maybe even in the grouping of the other guys I listed, which would put him in the top eight.
I agree with EVERYTHING you posted, minus Brandon Marshall being elite. Not trying to come off as a bitter Broncos fan, but he might get alot of catches and whatnot and everynow and then make some crazy after the catch plays....but he DOESNT score TD's.

In my mind what separates the good from the great, in terms of someone that can catch a ton of passes and someone that is ELITE is getting the ball in the endzone, and Marshall has had a whopping TWO 10+ TD seasons in his 8 year career. As a broncos fan i had to deal with him getting 1000+ yards and 100 catches, but like 5 td's a season .... he is top 10 for sure, but not top 5
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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I find it hysterical that Roddy White is somehow Robin to Julio's Batman, according to at least one poster. There is no doubt that Roddy is and has always been Matt Ryan's favorite target.
I don't think it has anything to do with who is the favorite target. Ryan has been throwing to Roddy since he came into the league, it shouldn't be a surprise that he's Ryan's #1 option and that he goes to him more in certain situations. That doesn't mean Roddy is better.

You determine who's better by watching them play and seeing who is more effective at all the things they can control. For example, imagine Julio and Roddy are both lining up against Darrelle Revis and running the same route. If both of them get equally open and Ryan chooses to throw to Roddy, that doesn't mean Roddy did any better of a job than Julio did. Hope that makes sense.

Writing all of that makes me realize how stupid of a name 'Roddy' is. He loses just because of that. And Richard Sherman said Julio was better, and Richard Sherman is always right.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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I don't think it has anything to do with who is the favorite target. Ryan has been throwing to Roddy since he came into the league, it shouldn't be a surprise that he's Ryan's #1 option and that he goes to him more in certain situations. That doesn't mean Roddy is better.

You determine who's better by watching them play and seeing who is more effective at all the things they can control. For example, imagine Julio and Roddy are both lining up against Darrelle Revis and running the same route. If both of them get equally open and Ryan chooses to throw to Roddy, that doesn't mean Roddy did any better of a job than Julio did. Hope that makes sense.

Writing all of that makes me realize how stupid of a name 'Roddy' is. He loses just because of that. And Richard Sherman said Julio was better, and Richard Sherman is always right.
well a good QB usually goes to the best option on the play, and more often than not Roddy get the look.... just because he isnt bigger or faster doesnt mean he is somehow worse than Julio.... there is alot more than size and speed to be a good WR.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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well a good QB usually goes to the best option on the play, and more often than not Roddy get the look.... just because he isnt bigger or faster doesnt mean he is somehow worse than Julio.... there is alot more than size and speed to be a good WR.
Well no ****. But Julio doesn't just have size and speed.

And I wasn't saying either one was better. Just that 'he's Ryan's favorite target!!!' isn't a reason for Roddy being better.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Well no ****. But Julio doesn't just have size and speed.

And I wasn't saying either one was better. Just that 'he's Ryan's favorite target!!!' isn't a reason for Roddy being better.
So you are trying to argue that because a good QB throws to one of the two more often than the other is not a reason to assume he is better?


exe.

Randy Moss (prime) on one side, Charles Rogers(in all of his bust glory)

the QB is best friends with rogers and has played ball with him his hole life, but in the games he always goes to Randy Moss because he is the better option.


my point is 2 things could be occuring, White gets more looks because he is getting open more? or Matt Ryan has a man crush and no matter how much better Julio Jones is it doesnt matter because Ryan isnt good and doesnt throw the ball to the better options.


IT IS FAR MORE LOGICAL that because Ryan more often goes to white in a time of need that he might be the better option, might run better routes and all in all is the better WR on the team.

THAN assuming that just because this guy produces more doesnt make him better.

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Old 04-17-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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If you want an actual reason for Roddy being better, say something like "he is a better route runner". Or at least something that you don't have to 'assume' is correct.
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