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Old 04-19-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
bornnraisedwhodat
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You guys are looking at years past but you have to look at this year. Floyd is one of the top players in THIS draft.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Come on you know I didn't compare Watt to Floyd. My point was that positions for NFL players aren't limited to where they line up in their base defense.

I also don't think the top-5 label is arbitrary. He's going in the top 5...
You didn't? How could you not be? There has to be a comparison of their attibutes because the position the played in college is meaningless by itself. In other words, there is a REASON why Watt was able to transition to a new position- he had the goods to play 5 technique. I don't see that occuring with Floyd. Watt had Aaron Smith size and strength with a lot more explosion and athleticism and Floyd doesn't.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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You guys are looking at years past but you have to look at this year. Floyd is one of the top players in THIS draft.
No, I am not. At a minimum, I see Joekel, Ansah, Fisher, Milliner, Johnson, Warmack, Cooper, Smith, S. Williams and Lotulelei being clearly better prospects.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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At this point in the draft process, almost everybody on NFL Network has Floyd going top 5. I don't think he is a top 5 prospect but certainly a top 10 type. The problem is that 2 OG's are top 5 prospects but it is doubtful they will go that high so the 6-10 group gets moved up for the draft. IMO, 2 DT's are fighting it out, Floyd and Lotelelei, so take your choice if you think Oakland will take a DT. Really, Oakland has so many holes, they could go any which way on draft day but IMO, trading out is a very strong possibility to a team wanting a LT over which at least 5 teams are fighting for the top 3 ones in this year's draft. So, really, I don't think they will draft Floyd at #3, but if for some reason, they get stuck there, he is definitely a possibility no matter what you think.
I don't like Floyd as a 3-4 DE because of his short arms but I haven't a clue what Oakland's management team thinks about him and neither do you. They are going to do what they want to do and there is zero you can do about it, so rant on all you want.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Oh, so everything else I said is invalid because I don't want the Raiders to pick him? That's quite an accusation. I could easily say it sounds to me that you are looking out for your fellow draft media guy.

No, I believe he is exaggerating teams interest in/ranking when it comes to Floyd and using the Raiders to increase Floyd's value. Funny, don't the Jags run a similar scheme? Yet he only has him coming to the Raiders. Furthermore, if he knows the Raiders are interested, then why not just say it? Finally, if the Raider do actually like him, why would I be mad at Jeremiah and not the Raiders?

As you can see, there are plenty fans of other teams that don't understand and don't agree with his WTF meteoric rise. Since you are here, do you have any insight as to why you nor anyone else was talking about him so glowingly until Jeremiah started pumping him up?

Finally, you are being too literal. He's obviously talking about most teams rankings, or at least that's what he is selling. And he is selling it HARD- and you don't ask why? Who else is he pimping like Floyd?
Still waiting for a link to the "most teams rankings" comment as you go from all to most. Keep going.

My fellow draft media guy? Why would I need to do that?

And go back and listen to our podcast. Scott talked glowingly about Floyd right after the declaration deadline. And it isn't just NFL Net. McShay has said similar things.

You have officially got me pulling for the Raiders to get Floyd now though!
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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You didn't? How could you not be? There has to be a comparison of their attibutes because the position the played in college is meaningless by itself. In other words, there is a REASON why Watt was able to transition to a new position- he had the goods to play 5 technique. I don't see that occuring with Floyd. Watt had Aaron Smith size and strength with a lot more explosion and athleticism and Floyd doesn't.
So, if Watt was so perfect, why did he last so long in the draft??? All, his attributes didn't convince any team to take him top 5, even Aldon Smith didn't go top 5??? Talking about them after they have played in the NFL is just self serving and doesn't prove Oakland won't draft Floyd.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Still waiting for a link to the "most teams rankings" comment as you go from all to most. Keep going.

My fellow draft media guy? Why would I need to do that?

And go back and listen to our podcast. Scott talked glowingly about Floyd right after the declaration deadline. And it isn't just NFL Net. McShay has said similar things.

You have officially got me pulling for the Raiders to get Floyd now though!
McShay ranks Lotulelei ahead of Floyd and with good reason. As far as a link, I don't believe I promised you a link, so keep waiting if you wish.

My fellow draft media guy? Why would I need to do that?

Oh, I don't know, why would I be mad at Jeremiah if the Raiders really do like Floyd?

You have officially got me pulling for the Raiders to get Floyd now though!

Ah, okay. Now this couldn't be interpreted as you pulling for your rookie draft media guy to be right, could it? No, never!
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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So, if Watt was so perfect, why did he last so long in the draft??? All, his attributes didn't convince any team to take him top 5, even Aldon Smith didn't go top 5??? Talking about them after they have played in the NFL is just self serving and doesn't prove Oakland won't draft Floyd.
You are twisting this portion of the debate of which you were not a part of. But to answer your question, your question is the same question I posed, so there's your answer.

Oh, and by the way, the points isn't about why those other two didn't go top five. They went in the top eleven I memory serves me correct. The point is what justifies FLOYD as a top five pick. Apparently, no one knows other than Jeremiah. Floyd isn't even the best DT coming out IMO.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-19-2013, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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At least Black Bolt is giving us a good laugh!
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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At this point in the draft process, almost everybody on NFL Network has Floyd going top 5. I don't think he is a top 5 prospect but certainly a top 10 type. The problem is that 2 OG's are top 5 prospects but it is doubtful they will go that high so the 6-10 group gets moved up for the draft. IMO, 2 DT's are fighting it out, Floyd and Lotelelei, so take your choice if you think Oakland will take a DT. Really, Oakland has so many holes, they could go any which way on draft day but IMO, trading out is a very strong possibility to a team wanting a LT over which at least 5 teams are fighting for the top 3 ones in this year's draft. So, really, I don't think they will draft Floyd at #3, but if for some reason, they get stuck there, he is definitely a possibility no matter what you think.
I don't like Floyd as a 3-4 DE because of his short arms but I haven't a clue what Oakland's management team thinks about him and neither do you. They are going to do what they want to do and there is zero you can do about it, so rant on all you want.
WTF are you talking about? Know one knows for a fact what their team is going to do, so thank's for adding that completely irrelevant point.

As to the actually debate, you just contradicted yourself. If Warmack and Cooper are top 5-6 six players but don't go that high because of the position they play, then it's even MORE likely that Floyd is not a top five player in terms of RANKING. And I doubt that he is by most teams account regardless of what Jeremiah claims.

As far as where he is selected, I DO NOT think he goes in the top five. The only teams he remotely fits in the top five is Jacksonville and Oakland. With Oakland, they are said to be more interested in DE high than DT. Besides, if they do pick a DT, Lotulelei makes WAY more sense than Floyd! Houston and Vance Walker have similar size and games. I don't see why Jeremiah continues to mock Floyd to Oakland and Oakland alone.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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At least Black Bolt is giving us a good laugh!
You mean like when I people were laughing at me when I was saying Colin Kaepernick would be a star in this league, or like they laughed when I said Vernon Gholston would be a bust while you all swooned over Mike Mayock expert analysis? Real funny stuff!!
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-19-2013, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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I'll attempt to shed more light on the situation for you.

I gave you two good overlooked positives:

1) Stamina for a DT to play all three downs. Useful against fast-paced offenses.
2) Character/work ethic. This is paramount.

Here are some more reasons why he'll be drafted in the top 5 (again, outside of his obvious strengths).

3) This draft lacks top-end prospects. It's really that simple. In a draft with more blue-chippers, he'd probably be a lower pick. The strength of this draft is not at the top. It's the quality depth in the mid-late-first all the way to the third. It's kind of the opposite of 2011. That helps Floyd's case.

4) He's 20 years old. He's improved each of years at Florida. There's considerable upside especially because...

5)... he's an athletic freak but doesn't get that label because we're spoiled with freaks nowadays. He ran a 4.87 at 297 pounds. He's 6'3", strong, and can move quickly and violently. There just aren't that many guys that can move like that in the world - and if they love football and have shown improvement throughout their career? That's it. That's a top NFL prospect. It's literally everything you look for.

So when we see a lack of production at times, poor technique at times, inconsistent get-off, etc. coaches see upside. They expect improvement, and there's no reason not to. They are confident in it because he's improved in his college career. Look at it this way. Had he stayed in school, he likely would have been expected to dominate his way to being one of the best DTs in the country. The coaches are just getting him before that.

Would they like to see a bit more production? Absolutely. But literally every single other box is checked and graded "A" in terms of his NFL prospects. And if you project his Senior year - he probably does get that monster season with 15 TFL and 7 sacks at DT. (he had 13 and 3 this year and his stats improved all three years)

I see your skepticism. One of my concerns with him is his lack of balance. But NFL coaches see that and think, "if I get this kid to work on his footwork, he's going to be a freaking monster."
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Not that my opinion on Jeremiah means anything whatsoever, but as someone who followed him before he left Twitter the first time and has followed him since he's returned, the guy appears to know his stuff. That said, it's pretty clear that he's starting to learn how to "play the game" as far as the media goes.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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This thread is going to deliver once the Raiders actually pick Floyd.

Can't wait.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Not that my opinion on Jeremiah means anything whatsoever, but as someone who followed him before he left Twitter the first time and has followed him since he's returned, the guy appears to know his stuff. That said, it's pretty clear that he's starting to learn how to "play the game" as far as the media goes.
I am not accusing him of not knowing his stuff, I'm saying he acts like he has an agenda when it comes to promoting this one player.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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This thread is going to deliver once the Raiders actually pick Floyd.

Can't wait.
Can't wait to look foolish? I'm not going anywhere. The Raiders aren't picking Floyd, but you did give away picks for another retread QB. I'll be sure to remind you of that.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-19-2013, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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You mean like when I people were laughing at me when I was saying Colin Kaepernick would be a star in this league, or like they laughed when I said Vernon Gholston would be a bust while you all swooned over Mike Mayock expert analysis? Real funny stuff!!
So, you got 2 right, I'm more impressed by those who are willing to name their failures, if you predict enough names, your bound to be right occassionally. I have a long list of rights too, but I'm not afraid to admit I stunk it up occassionaly. All draftniks do just like all scouts and GM's do.
Well I guess we'll have to see how Oakland's scouts and GM's do this year.
Like I said, I think they'll trade back, I guess I'll be a genius too if I'm right.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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I'll attempt to shed more light on the situation for you.

I gave you two good overlooked positives:

1) Stamina for a DT to play all three downs. Useful against fast-paced offenses.
2) Character/work ethic. This is paramount.

Here are some more reasons why he'll be drafted in the top 5 (again, outside of his obvious strengths).

3) This draft lacks top-end prospects. It's really that simple. In a draft with more blue-chippers, he'd probably be a lower pick. The strength of this draft is not at the top. It's the quality depth in the mid-late-first all the way to the third. It's kind of the opposite of 2011. That helps Floyd's case.

4) He's 20 years old. He's improved each of years at Florida. There's considerable upside especially because...

5)... he's an athletic freak but doesn't get that label because we're spoiled with freaks nowadays. He ran a 4.87 at 297 pounds. He's 6'3", strong, and can move quickly and violently. There just aren't that many guys that can move like that in the world - and if they love football and have shown improvement throughout their career? That's it. That's a top NFL prospect. It's literally everything you look for.

So when we see a lack of production at times, poor technique at times, inconsistent get-off, etc. coaches see upside. They expect improvement, and there's no reason not to. They are confident in it because he's improved in his college career. Look at it this way. Had he stayed in school, he likely would have been expected to dominate his way to being one of the best DTs in the country. The coaches are just getting him before that.

Would they like to see a bit more production? Absolutely. But literally every single other box is checked and graded "A" in terms of his NFL prospects. And if you project his Senior year - he probably does get that monster season with 15 TFL and 7 sacks at DT. (he had 13 and 3 this year and his stats improved all three years)

I see your skepticism. One of my concerns with him is his lack of balance. But NFL coaches see that and think, "if I get this kid to work on his footwork, he's going to be a freaking monster."
Shed light? If I told you the earth was round, is that "shedding light?" You aren't telling me anything I don't already know. As a matter of fact, I believe I acknowledge your point about his stamina- did you miss that? I have years of experience with the draft and I know what scouts like. Basically, they like Floyd's upside, yet he apparently isn't subject to the same red flags other prospects are. Why is he not criticized as a one year wonder? I personally don't think he is, but how come no one even mentions this? Same think with his lack of production. His numbers are okay, nothing special. Numbers don't tell the entire story, but for you to make the claim that every box is checked and not including production strikes me as strange.

Look, I get that this is a strange year. I made this exact same argument for Ansah. But what you don't seem to understand is exactly what I am questioning. I am question Jeremiah pumping this guy to the extent that he is, PERIOD. Certainly, Floyd is not the only good prospect out there, but you can't tell with him.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Can't wait to look foolish? I'm not going anywhere. The Raiders aren't picking Floyd, but you did give away picks for another retread QB. I'll be sure to remind you of that.
You're right, we did, and Alex Smith is better than any QB the Raiders have had since Rich Gannon. I'll be sure to remind you of that.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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He's gonna be so upset when the Raiders draft Floyd.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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It's not just Daniel Jeremiah, it's a bunch of people. Pioli and Tannenbaum had Floyd in their top 10. Back in January, Pioli listed Floyd as his 3rd best underclassman. Matt Williamson said Floyd won't get out of the top 3. Greg Cosell said Floyd is his favorite player. Mike Mayock said Floyd was a top 5 pick before the combine. All this buzz must be coming from the NFL, especially when you have former GMs saying the player belongs in the top 10. I don't agree with them, I don't see a special player, but it is what it is.
Did you respond to this post?

DJ isn't pumping Floyd up any more than these guys... you think they are ALL following DJ? I think it's far more likely that they all just see a similar thing in Floyd - a good prospect worthy of a high pick in a draft that doesn't have many blue-chip players.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Hey

I doubt that one semi-well known media scout is driving a whole slew of sources saying that he is a top 5/10 pick. NFL guys like Floyd more than others. I personally dont love him but I understand that he could got high in a pretty flat draft.

you even have Vidae defending Alex Smith.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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You're right, we did, and Alex Smith is better than any QB the Raiders have had since Rich Gannon. I'll be sure to remind you of that.
I'll remind you that we WHOOPED YOUR ASS twice and that you were too stupid to know what you had in Gannon. Thanks.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-19-2013, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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Hey

I doubt that one semi-well known media scout is driving a whole slew of sources saying that he is a top 5/10 pick. NFL guys like Floyd more than others. I personally dont love him but I understand that he could got high in a pretty flat draft.

you even have Vidae defending Alex Smith.
LOL, must have struck a serious nerve. Don't worry, he will be back to his whiney self in 3..2..1..
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-19-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Did you respond to this post?

DJ isn't pumping Floyd up any more than these guys... you think they are ALL following DJ? I think it's far more likely that they all just see a similar thing in Floyd - a good prospect worthy of a high pick in a draft that doesn't have many blue-chip players.
Um, yes, he is. I have seen mocks done by some others that don't have Floyd going in the top five or even ten. With Danielson, it's always #3 to the Raiders. He's definitely driving the caravan.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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