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Old 04-18-2013, 03:39 AM    (permalink
BallerT1215
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Originally Posted by ruthlessrussian View Post
If it does come down to Barkley or Nassib, I do like the fact that Barkley was able to go into USC and, from day one, run the show. Four years of starting at a premier school is impressive.

I like him. However, I like him at 16 a lot more. Do you hear that St Louis? You know you guys want Tavon Austin! Reel them in, Buddy!
I want the trade down so badly. If we can somehow just get into the teens like you said with St.Louis pick, and pick up another 2nd or maybe even their 2nd 1st rnd selection???

That would be huge. I still maintain we need to get more than 6 picks out of this draft. Our lack of aggressiveness in FA pretty much made that a given for this years draft.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:56 AM    (permalink
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Exactly! A trade down is a must. If feel like this draft is going to have more trades than the usual, simply because of the uncertainty of where players are going. Players are all over the boards.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:17 AM    (permalink
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What did you guys think of Nix's comments the other afternoon on "2-3 Franchise QB's in this draft"??


I'm thinking Barkley is #1 on their board for QBs.
I think that comment led to my thought #1, and if they think there are 2-3 franchise QB's then it is possible they take one at 8. Great points on Russell Wilson on NFL network last night; "In hindsight would you take R. Wilson in the top 5?" The unanimous response was yes (I agree), and the discussion was basically; "If there is a franchise guy available when you pick, you take him."
If they believe there are 2-3 franchise guys in this draft, logic (not fan/pundit/draftnik, you/me opinion) says they are VERY likely to take a QB at 8. If they believe Barkley is a franchise guy, and #1 on their board at QB, why would they risk passing on him? IMO at this point, based on what they have said, G. Smith is almost laughable as a possibility, unless they are playing poker, which Nix historically has not been good at.

You know I have thought Barkley is likely to be #1 on thier board for a while now.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:46 AM    (permalink
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IMO, they aren't going to draft a QB at #8, they are looking for a developmental QB at 41. They aren't looking for a starter, they are happy going into the season with Kolb and he will be our starter.

Of all the QB's, I think they like Barkley the best because he suits a WCO to a tee, but he could go late round 1 or very early round 2 and I don't believe they have the flexibility from Wilson to trade up in the draft, since it would cost Wilson more money which he doesn't like to spend. Our team is simply a prisoner of Wilson's pocket book and that isn't going to change as long as he owns the team.

It isn't all Wilson's fault, the revenue for Buffalo merchandise probably puts big city teams 100 million dollars ahead of us and Wilson simply doesn't have the income to make up that huge revenue difference. Owners of small market teams are always called cheap but that just hides the facts about overall revenues of each team, the NFL likes to promote the idea that the league is revenue equal and each team competes on an equal footing, but that is far from the truth, which goes a long way in explaining Buffalo ineptitude ever since FA came into being. Teams like Buffalo are always going to be 20 to 30 million dollars under the cap while teams like Dallas or New York will always be able to spend to the cap limit.

Yes, small market teams can actually compete but it takes solid ownership and a top of the league management team to make it work, something the Pittsburgh's and Green Bay's posses. Our owner hasn't proven himself to be among that group and being in his 90's, isn't likely to improve at this stage, so we are in a holding pattern until a new owner comes on the scene. Hopefully, it comes soon.
Good point on the small market teams and needing good management, which is what IMO seperates the Pittsburghs and GB's of the world from us and the Jags. I do think the market does dictate and probably hinder this and other franchises to a certain extent. I dont buy that Wilson is cheap (that horse and the counter points have been beaten to death way too much) and will hinder the Bills from moving up into the first, the long term (adding a 5th year team option to rookie contracts actually makes in fiscly beneficial) financial benefits coupled with the rookie wage scale for late first round picks is not cost prohibative at all. If anything they dont want to give up any picks at this point to move up, rather would like to move back to add picks. I dont buy the arguement Wilson would stop a trade up from happening over a 4 year $8.2ish million dollar (Kendall Wright the 20th pick last year as a example, (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee...ndall-wright/)) contract.
As for Kolb, he may be the starter, but his 2 year $6 million dollar contract (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/kevin-kolb/) wont stop the Bills from taking a QB, he's a bridge to game 8 this season, or next year. They are looking for a long term starter, and have stated they believe there are at least 2 franchise QB's in this draft, thinking they wont draft one at 8 (maybe move back if possible) or move up into the first round to take one is delusional IMO. Again, would you take Russell Wilson at 10 last year if you could go back in time and do so? If the answer is no, we have nothing to talk about.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:49 AM    (permalink
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I want the trade down so badly. If we can somehow just get into the teens like you said with St.Louis pick, and pick up another 2nd or maybe even their 2nd 1st rnd selection???

That would be huge. I still maintain we need to get more than 6 picks out of this draft. Our lack of aggressiveness in FA pretty much made that a given for this years draft.
Trying to figure this trade out in my mock, my ideal situation for the Bills at this piont. IMO they would be willing to lose value to move down from 8. 16, a first in 2014 and a 5th this year would be a nice haul IMO.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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If it does come down to Barkley or Nassib, I do like the fact that Barkley was able to go into USC and, from day one, run the show. Four years of starting at a premier school is impressive.

I like him. However, I like him at 16 a lot more. Do you hear that St Louis? You know you guys want Tavon Austin! Reel them in, Buddy!
Both Barkley and Nassib fit the 3 year starter philosophy of Nix, Barkley more so a 4 year guy. One will be on the roster next year, I dont see how not.

Ideally moving down to 16 would be nice, you ok with with less than market value to make it happen?
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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From what I have read, it looks like a west coast style passing attack (Matt Barkley or Ryan Nassib anyone), with an emphasis on the run game, watching Syracuse games, lots of power style runs. Marrone clearly believes in running the ball and emphasizes the running game. Basically its the Saints offense (Marrone was the coordinator from 06-08(?)), using FB's and TE's as role players, but uses them. Having Spiller makes me think maybe they will want a G who can pull (Cooper?) to lead block, but that is my opinion of an adaption they may consider or make. Marrone was very flexable at Syracuse, adapting his style and incorperating some zone read concepts, he also implemented a no huddle attack, and I would expect to see lots of that in the Bills offense. Marrone embraises change and adapts. They take their shots down the field, but mostly look to get the ball out quickly, Nassib's (dont be surprised if he is their first pick, or the target of a trade up in the first) decision making (similarly to Drew Brees IMO) was largely responsible for the success of the offense, supposedly they call alot of plays at the line, and have options within the play calling (audibles) and within the plays (requiring the ability to read defenses). Route running is a vital aspect of the offense from what I saw. Dave Rhame who writes for the Post-Standard in Syracuse had a excellent article which I have posted on this site before and can not find now explaining it. Here are two I found with a quick search. If I can find the other I will post it.


http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-c...iscipline.html
http://dailyorange.com/2012/11/fast-...uddle-offense/

As for the Oline thing... I agree and am skeptical of it as well based on the same reasons you are. Could it be a an "smoke screen" situation? "We are not interested... Unless one drops to us and we dont want the league to know." of course, but I agree Nix's history is pretty straight forward, and history says no olineman at 8 unfortunately. I think that would be just stupid myself not to consider. I have said before, I would not be surprised if they think their LG is already on the roster, Scott and Williams fit the Carl Nicks mold. Snow is on the roster and could be the man at G as well. They could very well believe the oline is fine... I think they have a chance to make the oline special, but I also could see them thinking the oline is fine...

I hope this helped ;)
This actually helped a ton. Thanks!


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Listening to the Nix, Whaley and Co. presser, a couple thoughts.
1 - Whaley mentioned anticipitory throws (at least twice, including a Joe Montana reference), something I think (and have thought) they are really valuing at the position, Barkley or Nassib will be on the Bills next year is a thought that just wont stop spinning in my head. They have a plan of action, wether it be at 8, 41, or moving up from 41, Barkley (could have been #1 last year, according to Nix) or Nassib with one of the top two picks is a virtual certainty IMO.
1a - I am almost sold that they go QB at 8 if the top couple positional guys are gone.
2 - The Bills are not moving up from 8. Maybe not from 41, but it is a possibility. IMO they will trade back from 8 if anything (re: the 8th pick), or up from 41.
3 - They are not taking a Guard at 8, 6 on the roster, and they like them, losing Levitre was not heartbreaking to them at all. They like Warmack and Cooper and will talk about it, but not pull the trigger.
4 - They have done their home work on the tackles, L. Johnson was talked about positively at length. He is a possibility at 8. Watch the body language.
5 - They want tough, football players, measurables are not going to be the end all, not even close.
6 - This is the deepest safety class Nix has seen in 10 years, depth through all rounds, even with Williams moving its a late round option. Scratch Vaccaro at 8, unless they move Byrd, who they are trying to extend, #pray.

I cant wait to see if this was all a smoke screen, but I would not be surprised if Barkley or Nassib was the pick at 8.
Counter points well recieved, thoughts?
3. I don't think they take a guard at all. He seemed vehement when he said that we have 6 guys on the roster and he likes them. Like you said in the above post, I think they're confident in the guys we have and the only movement we'll see is on the waiver wire when guys are cut.

5. Also guys who are passionate about football. I re-watched some video from last year's luncheon and post-draft press conferences. Buddy said a few times that you have to be weary about guys who graduate early because you have to worry about them being in it for the money/not being as passionate about football.

Also, I may be reading a bit in depth into this, but do you think that Manuel is a possibility for the Bills? I know the Buddy and co. downplayed him in the PC, but they did the same last year with Cordy Glenn
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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I do believe EJ is definitely in the mix.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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This actually helped a ton. Thanks!

Also, I may be reading a bit in depth into this, but do you think that Manuel is a possibility for the Bills? I know the Buddy and co. downplayed him in the PC, but they did the same last year with Cordy Glenn
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I do believe EJ is definitely in the mix.
My pleasure :)

Its the sum of all my fears, but yes I do think Manual is a possibiliy. I dont think he particularly fits in with the passing aspect of the offense, but with him being invited to the draft, and with Nix as the GM, it is a possibility. I had not thought about Glenn last year, and dont recall them down playing him, but that would certainly enhance the possibility.

If they took him at 8 (or even took him in general), I might would pull a Maybin draft day rage personally, hope after 24 hours, a wedding (who gets married on a draft weekend?) and some good time healing from the wife, I end up being wrong about him and calm down. Thats just me thought. Personal opinion aside, it is a possibility, probably a good one as he has indicated the Bills are one of three teams who have shown the most interest in him...
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Good point on the small market teams and needing good management, which is what IMO seperates the Pittsburghs and GB's of the world from us and the Jags. I do think the market does dictate and probably hinder this and other franchises to a certain extent. I dont buy that Wilson is cheap (that horse and the counter points have been beaten to death way too much) and will hinder the Bills from moving up into the first, the long term (adding a 5th year team option to rookie contracts actually makes in fiscly beneficial) financial benefits coupled with the rookie wage scale for late first round picks is not cost prohibative at all. If anything they dont want to give up any picks at this point to move up, rather would like to move back to add picks. I dont buy the arguement Wilson would stop a trade up from happening over a 4 year $8.2ish million dollar (Kendall Wright the 20th pick last year as a example, (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee...ndall-wright/)) contract.
As for Kolb, he may be the starter, but his 2 year $6 million dollar contract (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/kevin-kolb/) wont stop the Bills from taking a QB, he's a bridge to game 8 this season, or next year. They are looking for a long term starter, and have stated they believe there are at least 2 franchise QB's in this draft, thinking they wont draft one at 8 (maybe move back if possible) or move up into the first round to take one is delusional IMO. Again, would you take Russell Wilson at 10 last year if you could go back in time and do so? If the answer is no, we have nothing to talk about.
There are no Russell Wilson's in this year's draft, nothing even close. To play QB in Buffalo requires a strong arm because of the windy conditions he will be exposed to, it is very hard in our stadium to get away with a weak armed QB even if we go to a WCO. That's why I think Barkley is a no go.

There may be 2 franchise QB's in this year's draft but it is by the closest of margins with little chance that either we be a really solid starter, I think he is just throwing out smoke to hide his true feelings about who we will draft because there could be a lot of movement upwards on draft day. However trading back from #8 is going to be difficult with KC, Jacksonville Oakland Philly and Cleveland all looking to trade back. Not saying it's impossible just highly unlikely.

I could see us drafting a QB in round 2 but I don't see us trading up and giving up picks to get one. Losses in FA always means Buffalo must keep its picks to replace the losses and fill at least some of the holes. That is just a simple fact for most small market teams not just Buffalo face.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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This actually helped a ton. Thanks!




3. I don't think they take a guard at all. He seemed vehement when he said that we have 6 guys on the roster and he likes them. Like you said in the above post, I think they're confident in the guys we have and the only movement we'll see is on the waiver wire when guys are cut.

5. Also guys who are passionate about football. I re-watched some video from last year's luncheon and post-draft press conferences. Buddy said a few times that you have to be weary about guys who graduate early because you have to worry about them being in it for the money/not being as passionate about football.

Also, I may be reading a bit in depth into this, but do you think that Manuel is a possibility for the Bills? I know the Buddy and co. downplayed him in the PC, but they did the same last year with Cordy Glenn
GM's sometimes kill me, every GM wants players who are passionate about football and are tough players but that doesn't mean much unless they have the measurables to go with it. They are all in it for the money even the passionate ones, it's a business.

I really think they may be targeting Manuel in round 2, he has the arm strength to handle the winds at our stadium but to be honest, I watched his film pretty closely and was not impressed with his accuracy. Myself, I kind of perfer Nassib but I'm not sold on either's long term potential.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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Both Barkley and Nassib fit the 3 year starter philosophy of Nix, Barkley more so a 4 year guy. One will be on the roster next year, I dont see how not.

Ideally moving down to 16 would be nice, you ok with with less than market value to make it happen?
Haha I'm not okay with it but I have come to accept it with this draft.

I think back to when Tampa traded up with us to grab Kenyatta Walker. It was a move of roughly twelve spots and we were able to secure an additional second rounder with it. I believe this would be the best we could do in a trade down. This is in the case that somebody falls for Tavon Austin, as the talk goes right now. However, if Lane Johnson makes it down to eight, unlikely as it is, than I believe that are bargaining power would shift greatly in our favor. But as Iam pointed out in his mock, we should Lane ourselves at that point.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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If we take Nassib at 8, I am going to do horrible things to all of the people around me.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Me and everyone I sit with are getting Nassib jerseys should he end up a Bill. No doubt about it. That doesn't mean any of us particularly want him, but it would definitely happen.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SuperMcGee View Post
Me and everyone I sit with are getting Nassib jerseys should he end up a Bill. No doubt about it. That doesn't mean any of us particularly want him, but it would definitely happen.
http://lp.imageg.net/prod?set=key&#9...tomback.chain]

I can never get the pic to show up fine when I post a custom jersey.
:(
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Originally Posted by scottyboy
my lord...I cannot imagine such a world where I can mention Raymell Rice's thighs around a girl and not be the only one sexually aroused
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But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
If we take Nassib at 8, I am going to do horrible things to all of the people around me.
Rob, you wanna watch the draft together somewhere? Day 3? I have to be at the ballpark Days 1 and 2
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bills2083 View Post
http://lp.imageg.net/prod?set=key&#9...tomback.chain]

I can never get the pic to show up fine when I post a custom jersey.
:(
Nope! Our new punter Brian Stahovich is will carry on the Steve Christie tradition of the #2
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fischbowl View Post
Rob, you wanna watch the draft together somewhere? Day 3? I have to be at the ballpark Days 1 and 2
K cool, fisch :(
I guess I'll just watch it with my mom.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyboy
my lord...I cannot imagine such a world where I can mention Raymell Rice's thighs around a girl and not be the only one sexually aroused
Quote:
But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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Nassib at 8....cmooooooooon.....that's just depression waiting to happen.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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If we take Nassib at 8, I am going to do horrible things to all of the people around me.
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Nassib at 8....cmooooooooon.....that's just depression waiting to happen.
Good thing I'll be 600 miles away in the common wealth, lol. I think that those are very common thoughts in WNY. I'll be spending the rest of the weekend (Friday and Saturday) in Philly and cant wait to see how that shakes down... Particularly if they draft a QB as well early like I think they will.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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K cool, fisch :(
I guess I'll just watch it with my mom.
You still have season tickets? I don't think many people here actually live in Buffalo.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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You still have season tickets? I don't think many people here actually live in Buffalo.
Yup, still have my seasons. My family has held them for 51 years if you can believe that.
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Originally Posted by scottyboy
my lord...I cannot imagine such a world where I can mention Raymell Rice's thighs around a girl and not be the only one sexually aroused
Quote:
But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Good thing I'll be 600 miles away in the common wealth, lol. I think that those are very common thoughts in WNY. I'll be spending the rest of the weekend (Friday and Saturday) in Philly and cant wait to see how that shakes down... Particularly if they draft a QB as well early like I think they will.
Ahhhh...now I'm dreading draft night.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bills2083 View Post
K cool, fisch :(
I guess I'll just watch it with my mom.
Sorry Bills, it was meant to be a local-yocal New York City get-together. But it turns out I have to work a double on Saturday too, so I'll be watching the draft and checking in with you gentlemen from my beautiful corner cubicle
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:23 PM    (permalink
Bills2083
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Originally Posted by fischbowl View Post
Sorry Bills, it was meant to be a local-yocal New York City get-together. But it turns out I have to work a double on Saturday too, so I'll be watching the draft and checking in with you gentlemen from my beautiful corner cubicle
You should be able to watch Thursday and Friday though, right? Those don't start til 7.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyboy
my lord...I cannot imagine such a world where I can mention Raymell Rice's thighs around a girl and not be the only one sexually aroused
Quote:
But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons
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