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Old 04-21-2013, 01:53 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Your Raider Homer shtick is really getting old.
I really don't have a shtick for you to complain about, sir.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-22-2013, 06:07 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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For Shane and everyone else taking their shots at me for my opinion on this matter, it looks like I am not alone. First, Jeremiah now admits that if the Raiders don't take Floyd, he may fall. Now, read what two scouts are saying about Floyd.

Two separate NFL scouts say Florida DT Sharrif Floyd is overrated, with one going so far as to call Floyd a media creation.
It's worth noting Floyd had only 4.5 sacks in three college seasons. He's been touted hard by Greg Cosell, Mike Mayock, and Daniel Jeremiah, among others. "Those idiots on TV made Floyd," said one scout. "He's not that good. He's not better than Ziggy Hood." Asked if the Warren Sapp comparisons are valid, another scout replied "No. There's none of that. (Sapp) was just was more gifted than Floyd. Floyd is a good effort player. He's got shorter arms than (Sheldon) Richardson, and I think it shows. He gets kind of Velcroed on blockers."


-rotoworld

Hmm. You won't take it from me despite my track record, but maybe you all will take it when an NFL guy says it. Floyd is OVERRATED. He cannot be effective in a 3-4. All you have to do is look at how Warren Sapp got completely engulfed when he was placed at DE in Rob Ryan's 3-4. Even Warren admits he couldn't play that position and this is the guy Floyd is being compared to. The article even mentions a player I compared Floyd to, Ziggy Hood, who isn't meeting expectations in Pittsburg.

I said it before this Rotoworld quote, Floyd is a media creation spearheaded by Daniel Jeremiah. There was no reason why he all of a sudden jumped up to the top of the DT rankings BEFORE the freaking combine. Never passed the smell test. My thought is that there is some sentiment concerning Floyd and his background and whoever is on his team has gotten to Jeremiah. It reminds me a little of when Amobi Okoye came out, another small, young, high motor DT prospect with good character who was overdrafted at #10 overall. I'm not saying that Floyd isn't a nice prospect, just that he is VASTLY overrated as a top ten much less a top five pick.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

- Genius

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Old 04-22-2013, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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I actually concur with Black Bolt on this one.

Floyd never seemed like a good fit for Oakland. Not because I personally didn't like Floyd. I wouldn't think they would go Richardson either, who I much prefer to Floyd.

I don't agree he was a figment of Jeremiah's imagination. This guy was getting pumped up pretty well late last year and it kind of gained a momentum of it's own. Jeremiah was pretty late to that party. I wouldn't lay this at his feet. This media hype job is far more generic and broad.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Hmm. You won't take it from me despite my track record
Holy ****, this might be the most hilarious thing I've ever read on these boards. I'm literally laughing right now.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I think i agree with Blackbolt's overall point. That Floyd went from being generally regarded as a "first round pick" to being a "Top 5 Talent" without much of an explanation why...

Having reviewed rankings from before and after the combine and then the general consensus of Scouts, ranking services and mock drafts Floyd almost inexplicably went from being ranked within the top 25 players to the top 5 player leap frogging other players such as Star and Richardson.

Obviously there will be a difference in opinion and then of course scheme fit and personal preference - that being said, I would not draft Floyd in the top 10. His best fit is in a 4-3 base as I dont see him succeeding in a 3-4 as a DE and certainly not a NT/DT in that front. There are those who will disagree, but they are trying to project him as a 3-4 end with a "hope" he can play there - I dont think that is his natural spot or spot where he will be most effective.

If the Raiders were to use the #3 pick on him I think that would be a travesty.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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The legits points are that Floyd isn't great scheme fit and has really benefited from after the season. However guys build momentum all the time running up to the draft and go higher than expected. Guys also get drafted into defenses that don't seem to fit but they actually turn out pretty well; they also fail in those situations as well. Not all 34 defenses operate with the same responsibilities and roles.

Not legit is the notion that DJ is some how shaping the NFL draft to get Floyd take top 5. He is an interesting guy to follow but he doesnt carry the clout to make real rumblings. They thought that there is any real consensus in this draft is laughable. Almost every position is highly debatable and even scouts on the same team will disagree. Just because one scout thinks Floyd sucks doesn't mean 40 more feel the same way.

Floyd to Oakland is a real possibility. You may think otherwise but it may happen. You come off poorly when you stomp your feet and say it could never happen. I doubt your track record and its foolish to think the Raiders are more than a low level team and aren't 2-3 years away at best from being a relevant contender.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Holy ****, this might be the most hilarious thing I've ever read on these boards. I'm literally laughing right now.
Oh, yeah, it's so hilarious you can't contain yourself.

You sound like a desperate man, vidae. Just know we will get better with our first round pick. You all will stay status quo with you lateral move. Now, do you find that funny?
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-22-2013, 03:50 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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I think i agree with Blackbolt's overall point. That Floyd went from being generally regarded as a "first round pick" to being a "Top 5 Talent" without much of an explanation why...

Having reviewed rankings from before and after the combine and then the general consensus of Scouts, ranking services and mock drafts Floyd almost inexplicably went from being ranked within the top 25 players to the top 5 player leap frogging other players such as Star and Richardson.

Obviously there will be a difference in opinion and then of course scheme fit and personal preference - that being said, I would not draft Floyd in the top 10. His best fit is in a 4-3 base as I dont see him succeeding in a 3-4 as a DE and certainly not a NT/DT in that front. There are those who will disagree, but they are trying to project him as a 3-4 end with a "hope" he can play there - I dont think that is his natural spot or spot where he will be most effective.

If the Raiders were to use the #3 pick on him I think that would be a travesty.
Thank you, sir. I don't know why a group of people here have a deaf ear to common sense. The guy DID get pushed up out of the blue, Jeremiah WAS the one who first made the claim about how GMs have him as a top 5 player, Jeremiah DID recently say that he would likely take a tumble if the Raiders don't pick him and then this article appeared that DID echo my thoughts about him being a media creation. Compare these facts to what I've been saying; a) I questioned why Floyd was pushed up BEFORE the combine by Jeremiah, b) I questioned why for weeks he had them mocked to the Raiders only and c) I questioned the fit for the Raiders who don't need a 3 technique DT and who don't run an exclusive 4-3. He was using the Raiders as a top five destination to falsely build this guys ranking. Why else would a "top five prospect" take a tumble if one team in the top five doesn't pick him? Look at this last piece from Rotoworld. It reads like I wrote it!

NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah believes Florida DT Sharrif Floyd could fall out of the top-ten picks if Oakland doesn't take him at No. 3.We've been getting the same vibe; and don't believe the Raiders will take him at 3. The teams picking at Nos. 4-9 either "don't fit Floyd scheme-wise," per Jeremiah, "or they are set" at defensive tackle. We wouldn't be shocked if Floyd fell all the way to the Panthers at No. 14. He only appeals to 4-3 defenses.

So yeah, for everyone saying wait till Thursday, wait till Thursday.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

- Genius

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Old 04-22-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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I agree with Black Bolt here, I think it is extremely unlikely the Raiders take Floyd. Much more unlikely than it has ever been that the Chiefs take a tackle which a certain someone on here would insist had zero chance of happening.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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The legits points are that Floyd isn't great scheme fit and has really benefited from after the season. However guys build momentum all the time running up to the draft and go higher than expected. Guys also get drafted into defenses that don't seem to fit but they actually turn out pretty well; they also fail in those situations as well. Not all 34 defenses operate with the same responsibilities and roles.

Not legit is the notion that DJ is some how shaping the NFL draft to get Floyd take top 5. He is an interesting guy to follow but he doesnt carry the clout to make real rumblings. They thought that there is any real consensus in this draft is laughable. Almost every position is highly debatable and even scouts on the same team will disagree. Just because one scout thinks Floyd sucks doesn't mean 40 more feel the same way.

Floyd to Oakland is a real possibility. You may think otherwise but it may happen. You come off poorly when you stomp your feet and say it could never happen. I doubt your track record and its foolish to think the Raiders are more than a low level team and aren't 2-3 years away at best from being a relevant contender.
I really don't care of you doubt my track record because it is what it is. I don't throw out a ton of predictions, but when I do, I have demonstrative and almost always right. Pull up my debate with Scott Wright about Colin Kaepernick as and example if you like, if you don't, like I said, I don't care. As far as Jeremiah, he's been the loudest voice for Floyd and he is also the one that first made the claim about being a top five players on "everyones" board:

"Everybody" in the NFL has Florida DT Sharrif Floyd graded as a top-five overall player, according to former scout Daniel Jeremiah.Apparently it took the league a while to watch Floyd's tape because their initial focus was on the senior class. That has changed in recent weeks. "He's a special pass rusher," said Jeremiah. "You put him in a three-technique, he's capable of getting you double-digit sacks."

- Rotoworld

Now this guy is bracing us for a fall:

NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah writes Florida DT Sharrif Floyd could fall out of the top 10 if the Raiders pass on him at No. 3."The teams picking fourth through ninth either don't fit Floyd scheme-wise or they are set at the position. The Tennessee Titans (10th pick) would be his last hope to land in the top 10, barring a trade-up from another team," Jeremiah writes. We've speculated this before and it's definitely a possibility. Perhaps he will be an option for a team like the Carolina Panthers, provided someone like the San Francisco 49ers doesn't move up. Apr 22 - 3:17 PM.

- Rotoworld
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-22-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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I'm glad you guys see the light on this one with Floyd and noticed the same trend I was noticing. This guy literally leap frogged a bunch of people, not to say he isn't talented but he certainly should and will not go 3rd overall. I do believe he is a media created high pick. It was like after college football season was over that I noticed people start to put him higher and higher and the next thing you know he's 3rd overall at the Raiders. Now look at the mock drafts today, everyone has him going to the Raiders and if they don't he falls out of the top 10. I'm like 90% sure we won't be taking him, I think McKenzie sees past the smoke.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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I'm glad you guys see the light on this one with Floyd and noticed the same trend I was noticing. This guy literally leap frogged a bunch of people, not to say he isn't talented but he certainly should and will not go 3rd overall. I do believe he is a media created high pick. It was like after college football season was over that I noticed people start to put him higher and higher and the next thing you know he's 3rd overall at the Raiders. Now look at the mock drafts today, everyone has him going to the Raiders and if they don't he falls out of the top 10. I'm like 90% sure we won't be taking him, I think McKenzie sees past the smoke.
Amen brother. The Raiders are an easy target. They were being used to prop this guy up and I called it. Floyd is a Ziggy Hood level prospect, not a top 3 pick.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-22-2013, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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I've always thought Floyd was a mid first rounder. I never got the top 3 hype. Regardless of the opinion on the matter though, I find black bolt's rhetoric to be hilarious.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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I've always thought Floyd was a mid first rounder. I never got the top 3 hype. Regardless of the opinion on the matter though, I find black bolt's rhetoric to be hilarious.
Thanks a lot. I find it hilarious that you spelled your handle with an "o" and not an "i".
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-22-2013, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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The irony is not lost upon me.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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BlackBolt, i'm not sure anyone is saying Floyd is a good fit for a 3-4 defense. But I thought the Raiders were going with a 4-3? That's why Jeremiah says he could drop out of the top 10, because teams like the Browns, Jets, Eagles and Cardinals wouldn't be interested in him for their defensive scheme and the Bills and Lions don't need a DT at all. If the Raiders are going to a 4-3, the pick makes sense. It's not as if there are a load of other elite prospects available that fit the 4-3 defense. I wouldn't pick him there, but I don't think it would be a terrible pick. Ansah and Lotulelei are probably the only other defensive players that would be a good fit for an even front. The rest are all questionable.

If the Raiders are going 3-4, I can understand why you're upset, lol.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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BlackBolt, i'm not sure anyone is saying Floyd is a good fit for a 3-4 defense. But I thought the Raiders were going with a 4-3? That's why Jeremiah says he could drop out of the top 10, because teams like the Browns, Jets, Eagles and Cardinals wouldn't be interested in him for their defensive scheme and the Bills and Lions don't need a DT at all. If the Raiders are going to a 4-3, the pick makes sense. It's not as if there are a load of other elite prospects available that fit the 4-3 defense. I wouldn't pick him there, but I don't think it would be a terrible pick. Ansah and Lotulelei are probably the only other defensive players that would be a good fit for an even front. The rest are all questionable.

If the Raiders are going 3-4, I can understand why you're upset, lol.
It's two separate but related issues. First, Floyd was overrated by Jeremiah as a prospect when he claimed he is a top 5 player. Second, he is not a great fit for the Raiders because of two reasons. First, the Raiders made good on their intention on running multiple fronts in the last third of the season. They are a primary 4-3 team that used a lot of 3-4. Floyd is a perfect 4-3 3 tech, but he doesn't have a position in a 3-4 which would diminish his value to us. In addition, we have similar players in Walker and Houston. What we don't have is a viable NT candidate or a jumbo 3-4 DE ala a Richard Seymour or Haloti Ngata. If we were to go DT, Lotulelei is by FAR the better fit for our defense. What Jeremiah did was use the Raiders who he probably believes is still strictly a 4-3 defensive team and insert Floyd to justify his falsely high ranking. Ironically, it's the same lack of versatility that lead to his latest comment that Floyd may "fall" in the draft, citing the lack of 4-3 teams at the top with DT needs.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Oh, yeah, it's so hilarious you can't contain yourself.

You sound like a desperate man, vidae. Just know we will get better with our first round pick. You all will stay status quo with you lateral move. Now, do you find that funny?
The Raiders haven't even hit their low point yet.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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Oh, yeah, it's so hilarious you can't contain yourself.

You sound like a desperate man, vidae. Just know we will get better with our first round pick. You all will stay status quo with you lateral move. Now, do you find that funny?
Yeah your first round picks have made you a lot better in the last few years.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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The Raiders haven't even hit their low point yet.
You must of not seen our defense last year :D
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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Yeah your first round picks have made you a lot better in the last few years.
No, we don't have any Tyson Jackson/Glen Dorsey type stalworths, but we had enough to smack you hicks around 5 of the last 6 games. Did you forget again?
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-23-2013, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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The Raiders haven't even hit their low point yet.
Unfortunately this is the truth. This may happen this year after all those cuts and no 1st the past 2 years.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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No, we don't have any Tyson Jackson/Glen Dorsey type stalworths, but we had enough to smack you hicks around 5 of the last 6 games. Did you forget again?
They have the 1st pick in the draft, you guys have the 3rd.

Both your teams suck.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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You must of not seen our defense last year :D
Actually... I did. Doug Martin went all James Wilder on you guys. I saw you guys against the Chiefs, too. Jesus the Chiefs QB's were awful.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Actually... I did. Doug Martin went all James Wilder on you guys. I saw you guys against the Chiefs, too. Jesus the Chiefs QB's were awful.
So maybe you can understand why I am so against drafting Sharrif "The Creation"Floyd. This is not a guy who would have helped against Doug Martin. The CRAZY thing about that game was I believe we held him to less then 40 yards in the first half.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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