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Old 04-17-2013, 11:45 AM    (permalink
ChiFan24
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
I agree with EVERYTHING you posted, minus Brandon Marshall being elite. Not trying to come off as a bitter Broncos fan, but he might get alot of catches and whatnot and everynow and then make some crazy after the catch plays....but he DOESNT score TD's.
Aren't you?
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:59 AM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
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Aren't you?
Honestly no...if McDaniels wouldnt have torn the team apart like he did and traded away cutler and marshall....we dont have Decker, Welker, Thomas, Manning, Von Miller or Elway back as head of the Broncos today.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Aren't you?
I don't think so. Why would he be? The Broncos have arguably the best WR core in the league without him. And I would take DThomas over Marshall and they wouldn't have Thomas if they kept Marshall.

So I don't see why he would be bitter.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Just saying, being a QB's favorite target doesn't mean that WR, etc. is the team's best pass catcher or playmaker.

Jason Witten has always been Romo's favorite target, but that doesn't mean he's a better receiving option than Dez Bryant.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
I agree with EVERYTHING you posted, minus Brandon Marshall being elite. Not trying to come off as a bitter Broncos fan, but he might get alot of catches and whatnot and everynow and then make some crazy after the catch plays....but he DOESNT score TD's.

In my mind what separates the good from the great, in terms of someone that can catch a ton of passes and someone that is ELITE is getting the ball in the endzone, and Marshall has had a whopping TWO 10+ TD seasons in his 8 year career. As a broncos fan i had to deal with him getting 1000+ yards and 100 catches, but like 5 td's a season .... he is top 10 for sure, but not top 5
Then you would agree with everything he said except for Brandon Marshall and Andre Johnson, right? Andre's had a whopping ZERO 10+ TD seasons in his 10 year career. Including 4 last year with 112 receptions.

I think both of them are elite. For what it's worth.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Then you would agree with everything he said except for Brandon Marshall and Andre Johnson, right? Andre's had a whopping ZERO 10+ TD seasons in his 10 year career. Including 4 last year with 112 receptions.

I think both of them are elite. For what it's worth.
WOW...i had to double check that, but i didnt know Andre has the brandon marshall syndrome, symptoms include putting up crazy stats but for a big WR has trouble being able to score TDs whether in the endzone on fades or in any other fasion.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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i find it crazy that andre is a 10 year pro and marshall is 8...andre seems like hes been around a cool decade longer than marshall
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

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Old 04-17-2013, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Honestly no...if McDaniels wouldnt have torn the team apart like he did and traded away cutler and marshall....we dont have Decker, Welker, Thomas, Manning, Von Miller or Elway back as head of the Broncos today.
Right, I didn't mean you should be bitter. The Broncos did a great job handing things over to Elway/Fox/Peyton. I just think it's clear that you hold some kind of bias against Marshall, because I can't see any argument against him being an elite WR. ~120/1500/10 as the only receiver on the team capable of doing anything is pretty much the definition of elite in my book.
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Right, I didn't mean you should be bitter. The Broncos did a great job handing things over to Elway/Fox/Peyton. I just think it's clear that you hold some kind of bias against Marshall, because I can't see any argument against him being an elite WR. ~120/1500/10 as the only receiver on the team capable of doing anything is pretty much the definition of elite in my book.
I think there is a very reasonable argument for Marshall not being elite. He's coming off one of if not the best years of his career, but he still was targeted close to 200 times while putting up the stat line you mentioned above. There were plenty of guys who put up similar numbers with a lot less targets, and who can stretch the field a lot better than Marshall could. When I think elite I think of top 5 at their position, and somebody whose presence changes the entire complexity of the game. I don't get that vibe from Marshall when watching him.

I'd easily take C. Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, AJ Green, Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Roddy White, and Julio Jones over Marshall right now and not even 2nd guess myself for a second.

Marshall is a #1 receiver, and is in that class of the next wave of 10 or so guys who probably could put up similar production if targeted 194 times. He's a solid possession guy, but he's pretty average in the red zone, and is nowhere near as dynamic of a vertical threat as a lot of other #1 type receivers out there.

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Old 04-17-2013, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Ok, I couldn't disagree more, but I shouldn't have even brought it up. I've managed to avoid pointless WR debates in my life so it's probably in my best interest just to concede this. You may all carry on with the discussion about Roddy White's shoulders.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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For Brandon Marshall, I mean there is a reason why 2 teams have dumped him off on someone now. A complete headcase, maybe he's realized that after Miami dumped him, I don't know. He would lose focus in games, off the field distractions.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:58 AM    (permalink
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For Brandon Marshall, I mean there is a reason why 2 teams have dumped him off on someone now. A complete headcase, maybe he's realized that after Miami dumped him, I don't know. He would lose focus in games, off the field distractions.

Off the field distractions?? Like what?? Marshall wanted out of Miami, he wasn't dumped. And if he was 'dumped' by the Broncos, that means Jay Cutler was dumped too. Two of the most boneheaded decisions ever made during McDaniels tenure in Denver.
Marshall has a diagnosed mood disorder, I think he's bipolar.
Other than that I don't see where he's this bad guy to have on a football team.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Off the field distractions?? Like what?? Marshall wanted out of Miami, he wasn't dumped. And if he was 'dumped' by the Broncos, that means Jay Cutler was dumped too. Two of the most boneheaded decisions ever made during McDaniels tenure in Denver.
Marshall has a diagnosed mood disorder, I think he's bipolar.
Other than that I don't see where he's this bad guy to have on a football team.
When you get suspended for your off the field behavior, then yeah, its an off the field distraction.
Just some things to go on - Marshall has been pointed at as being one of the people that escalated the events prior to Darrent Williams being shot.
Numerous altercations happened with his girlfriend, causing him to be arrested once, charges being dropped.
Cuts his arm pretty bad in one of those altercations.
Suspended for 3 games, brought down to 1.
Was very childish in preseason 2009, punting balls in practice and not working hard at all. McDaniels suspended him for the preseason.
More altercations with his now wife, to the point where he originally said she stabbed him, but then he later retracted that.
He punched a woman in a nightclub.

Basically, the Broncos didn't want to deal with his act, and pay him, when he could also easily get a long suspension. In games, he would lose his cool, ala Terrell Owens, at times and lose focus.

If Marshall was a level headed player, yeah it would've been a huge bonehead move to trade him. But he was a headache, and Thomas is actually developing nicely and could very well become a better WR than Marshall.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Since Marshall has been on meds and receiving counseling, I haven't heard a thing negative about him.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I dont think Andre/Brandon Marshall are no good as red-zone targets, they just havent been a part of high-powered offenses with other viable red-zone threats. They both have the skill set to score TDs, they just havent been on the right teams to score a lot of TDs.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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So you are trying to argue that because a good QB throws to one of the two more often than the other is not a reason to assume he is better?


exe.

Randy Moss (prime) on one side, Charles Rogers(in all of his bust glory)

the QB is best friends with rogers and has played ball with him his hole life, but in the games he always goes to Randy Moss because he is the better option.


my point is 2 things could be occuring, White gets more looks because he is getting open more? or Matt Ryan has a man crush and no matter how much better Julio Jones is it doesnt matter because Ryan isnt good and doesnt throw the ball to the better options.


IT IS FAR MORE LOGICAL that because Ryan more often goes to white in a time of need that he might be the better option, might run better routes and all in all is the better WR on the team.

THAN assuming that just because this guy produces more doesnt make him better.
THANK YOU.

Matt Ryan looks to Roddy in crunch time b/c he knows Roddy knows how to get open, knows how to read defenses, and has reliable hands. You see it happen sometimes where Ryan and Julio arent on the same page, and Julio isnt quite where he expects him to be. Like ive said all along, Roddy has a higher football IQ, runs routes better, and has better hands. Julio needs to continue to develop these things and he will have every opportunity to overtake Roddy as the #1 WR on the team, but in my mind Roddy is still the go-to guy in that offense.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Roddy does certain things better than Jones, but Jones can take a seemingly routine play and in the blink of an eye take it to the house. Jones is a threat catching deep balls and also has very good ability to take a short catch and break it for a long gain. I imagine Julio scares defenses more and draws a little more attention than Roddy.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Mike Wallace draws more attention than Roddy as well I imagine. He's still not better.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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Mike Wallace draws more attention than Roddy as well I imagine. He's still not better.
Check Mate...this is a perfect example for this. Wallace def. scares defenses more than say Hines Ward did, but no one in their right mind would say he is better.

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Old 04-22-2013, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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Mike Wallace is no Julio Jones. It's pretty clear you guys don't realize how awesome Julio is. Wallace is quite limited compared to Jones. Julio can do it all. He even averaged 9ypc last year. And he can do this:



******* beast...
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:42 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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Yeah, you're right. I don't watch any Falcons games.

Fwiw White caught two touchdowns that game.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:11 PM    (permalink
Guru
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Two completely different players who bring different skill sets to complete a potent offense and we argue who's better? The only question is, better at what. They both have skills that are better than the other and you're splitting hairs by ranking them, though I do think it's obvious Jones has rare upside and White plays at his ceiling on a consistent basis.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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It's exaggerating to say they're "completely different". I'm not saying they're clones, but we're not talking Calvin Johnson vs Wes Welker here.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:34 PM    (permalink
Bosanac01
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Bottom line is that they compliment each other really well and both have a great relationship with the QB. They are both very productive and help the team win games. Julio is a lot more valuable long term, thats the only difference.
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