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Old 04-24-2013, 01:34 AM    (permalink
keylime_5
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haha, i never thought about that. Yeah, 11 of the top 12 picks could be guys who played on the line (if you count Jordan as a DE).

Joeckel
Fisher
Floyd
Jordan
Ansah
Cooper
Mingo
Lotuleilei
Warmack
Fluker

could be ten of the top 11 or 12 picks (i expect Buffalo to take a QB it sounds like at 8). Not to mention Sheldon Richardson would could make it 11 of the top 12 - 14 picks all college linemen. Nassib and Milliner and maybe Austin and/or Vaccaro could sneak in there.

For the Browns though I'm expecting to come away with either Milliner, Ansah, Mingo, or Lotuleilei. Eifert and maybe Sheldon Richardson as dark horses. I wish Jordan would fall to us but that seems like a longshot.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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Since January I've mocked to us Dion Jordan, Tyler Eifert and Sheldon Richardson. Those would be my top choices for our first pick.

The Manuel rumors are interesting. For a minute I liked him a lot but soured on him after really getting into a bunch of his games where he always seemed to shrink in the biggest moments.

Other guys I like a lot are D.J. Hayden and Tavon.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Prediction time!

#6 I say Barkevious Mingo....unless Dion Jordan is there, then definitely Dion Jordan. :D
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Prediction time!

#6 I say Barkevious Mingo....unless Dion Jordan is there, then definitely Dion Jordan. :D
Well done key. Well done.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Yes, well done Key but I'll have to see how I feel when we are averaging 7-10 points a game on offense.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Considering the front officeís first alternative was Dee Milliner, Iím pleased with the Mingo pick. I think Millinerís ceiling is quite comparable to Carlos Rogers, but thereís a lot of technique work just to get there. His footwork needs polishing and his hand usage (at the line and downfield) is overrated. With Mingo, he might be a rawer prospect, but I think thereís more upside to realize, too. Heís from LSU. I donít expect him to be a polished product. Talent development isnít Les Milesí strong suit. In the end, athleticism isnít something that can be coached and itís the most coveted trait in a pass rusher. So, in essence, the Browns traded a higher floor for a higher ceiling.

Now, I just hope the front office picked someone that the coaching staff has a defined blueprint for when it comes to development. What are Mingoís strengths? What are his weaknesses? What are the best situations to highlight his strengths and camouflage his weaknesses? At the start of the season, I expect him to be a sub-package rusher and see between 40-50% of defensive snaps, depending on his progress through pre-season. The signing of Kruger as a free agent doesnít necessitate starting and handling most of the workload.

At LSU, Mingo often aligned on the strong side and even shaded inside some. It was a poor scheme fit for him. He was exposed to bigger tackles and guards. And, as one of LSUís most athletic front seven defenders, he was used to mirror backfield action. He wasnít put in aggressive positions in Baton Rouge. Given Hortonís strong blitz tendencies, that role should change. Instead of rushing in tight quarters, heís going to be rushing from positions of space. Thatís where that athleticism could shine. I thought he was more explosive in a two-point stance in college. There wasnít as much hesitance as he got his weight under him and he was more effective converting speed to power. With athleticism, a football mind, a motor, and a work ethic as a foundation, itís not a bad gamble to take at the top of a weaker draft in terms of front-end talent.

That said, thereís still progress to be made. First and foremost, he needs to add weight. Get him on an NFL lifting regimen. Heís thin through the trunk. I think heís got some functional strength in him. He surprised me a few times when he anchored and maintained good leverage, but when he failed to keep his pad level low, he got washed out. Heís nowhere near strong enough to compensate for poor technique. In addition, heís got some sloppiness as a tackler. Not a powerful striker or a reliable finisher. There were times his explosiveness got him into situations where he could make tackles behind the line, but he couldnít finish it. Those missed splashes add up. As far as lacking a complete repertoire as a pass rusher goes, I hear it, but I donít care too much. Show me a prospect thatís got a great go-to, a great counter, and a plus fallback.

Iím not sure what the front office wants to do in the third. In terms of visits and workouts in that area of the draft, weíve shown interest in Gavin Escobar, Tyrann Mathieu, D.J. Swearinger, Jon Bostic, Matt Scott, Larry Warford, Logan Ryan, Travis Kelce, Kenny Stills, and Josh Evans. So a quarterback, a receiver, two tight ends, a guard, a linebacker, two corners, and two safeties. In other words, our possibilities appear open across the board.
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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It is very hard to project Mingo, he was the right pick but for some reason, something went wrong for LSU and all their draft eligible players had off seasons, they didn't employ an attack system but tended to play off the ball, the worst possible system for all those talented guys, which is probably why so many declared.
I think Mingo has a high upside and I really hope he reaches his ceiling.
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Well, given the front officeís willingness to move out of the draft for future picks, I think itís safe to assume that Weeden needs to prove a lot. Itís a show-me season for him. Because Banner has assembled the ammunition to target a franchise quarterback in the following draft. You can start building an attractive package with six selections in the first four rounds. Or, if the Browns flounder enough to grab one with their own pick, use those selections to surround that quarterback with complementing pieces.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm not really upset with anything we did. I think we were solid. I don't view Slaughter as anything more than ST, Bryant may make it as a rotational guy.

Leon McFadden looks like he could be an above average player. It seems that he has the traits that Milliner lacks: excellent footwork, not "grabby." Further, he has excellent stop-and-go ability due to his fluid hips. While he may not have the elite speed, it can be masked by his aforementioned skills. He may be on the shorter side a bit but I read he has pretty long arms. Could make a really good #2.

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Old 04-27-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Well, given the front officeís willingness to move out of the draft for future picks, I think itís safe to assume that Weeden needs to prove a lot. Itís a show-me season for him. Because Banner has assembled the ammunition to target a franchise quarterback in the following draft. You can start building an attractive package with six selections in the first four rounds. Or, if the Browns flounder enough to grab one with their own pick, use those selections to surround that quarterback with complementing pieces.
I think you hit the nail on the head and I agree, they may be assembling enough picks in next year's draft to move up for a franchise QB, however, as we all saw with RG111, there are absolutely no guarantees that always works out. But at least it looks like they have a plan.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, this is the make or break year obviously for Weeden. As he goes, the offense goes. We have some good pieces in place around him with a good offensive line, Richardson (who is gonna thrive in Norv Turner's offense by the way), Josh Gordon, Greg Little, Davone Bess, sleeper signee David Nelson, and second year burner/return man Travis Benjamin. Jordan Cameron staying healthy and having a breakout year at TE is a MUST for our offense as well since he is the only TE on the roster that can catch. This is the first time in a while where we can't blame our QB struggles on the supporting cast I think.

I'm not worried about Mingo. He should blossom in Horton's system with all that talent around him (Bryant, Rubin, Taylor, Winn, Sheard, Kruger, Groves), though it's not necessarily a given that he will produce as well as a rookie yet because he is so thin right now, needs to add 10-15 lbs. of muscle, but he will be part of a rotation that will get to QBs this year b/c we have 4 pass rushers who can get to the QB and they will keep each other fresh throughout games.
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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My initial thoughts.

Mingo
Not high on him. He was top 5 before the junior season, than looked like a mid to late first rounder after really struggling. Seems he started getting elevated the closer it got to the draft. He's completely a finesse guy at this point. He doesn't finish. And he doesn't have anything when he gets there. No pop. Not exactly an AFC north type guy. Also gets a little out of control and unbalanced. Big Ben could shrug him all day, if he can even get that close. Lombardi liked to say you don't look at where a guy is now, you look where he'll be in 2-3 years. That's why he's a Brown. They're banking on his development but....

Worst case scenario, Mingo is Manny Lawson. A reasonable projection is he'll be Mathias Kiwanuka. Best case scenario, he's Osi Umenyiora.

McFadden
I like him. He plays salty. He's small though and not real fast. Reminds of the type of CBs the Colts always used to draft. I think he's another Jerraud Powers. Decent starter but nothing exceptional. Mathieu going the next pick was a kick in the pants. Lombardi or Banner pussed out. Mathieu is similar but with exceptional playing traits. Greater risk but higher reward. Mathieu is like former Jet/Texans great Aaron Glenn. Pro bowl CB and punt returner.

Slaughter
First, I kind of loved the trade outs. Stock piling for next year is good. BUT...passing on Shamarko Thomas and allowing the Steelers to come up for him could haunt this FO. Thomas, imo, isn't strictly an inbox guy. His speed (sub 4.4) and range make him also suited to play the deep half as the last line of defense. He also showed the ability to man up on the slot WR/TE.

But to Jamoris. Even if he makes it back 100% healthy, which is always a big if, he'll still be an underpowered slow FS. I love his play style and Ive read he's a leader and smart but slow is slow. I think he looked like a 4.6 guy healthy. As a 6th round gamble, he's an ok pick. But in light of passing Thomas to your #1 rival, it turns bad.

Bryant
Solid developmental pass rusher. I read he didn't have the greatest week at the East West but looked very good at his pro day and private workouts.

Gilkey
I love the value here. I had him as a mid 5th rounder. He looked very good senior week in Mobile and in the game. Stout and quick.

The Bess trade was as good as it gets. If you factor Bess and Gordon into this draft it looks sort of good. Without them though, I don't think it cuts it. Supposedly we had the same deal from the Rams as the Bills did but opted to stay put and take Mingo. That's a big fat fail imo.
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:58 AM    (permalink
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I'm pretty meh on Cleveland's draft class. Mingo is a huge reach in the top 10. Incredible intangibles, not nearly enough production for me. McFadden is the best pick, should jump in immediately and play. Bryant and Gilkey (especially) are very intriguing.

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Old 04-29-2013, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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For once in a long time, I can actually live with our draft, Mingo has a shot to be great even if it isn't guaranteed.
MaFadden is OK and filled a need. The rest are just special teamers so it hardly matters anyways.
The fact that they are obviously looking to add picks for next year in hopes of being in a position to move up to get a franchise QB, is the right way to go.
Therefore this draft cannot be graded till we know the results of next year's draft.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, this draft was more about just the players they did pick. We got a 3rd and 4th rounder for next year. We got Davone Bess and Josh Gordon. Those 4 moves were very well done. Mingo is a high upside, swing for the fences pick at OLB - he can be a 10-15 sack a year guy once he develops. I think him in Horton's system is a great match. I would have taken that trade from St.Louis though and taken Jarvis Jones and a 2nd rounder. Safer pick who is sure to be a 8+ sack a year type OLB even though he isn't as fast or big and might have long term issues with that stenosis. Not a big deal though if Mingo pans out.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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The only problem I have with the Brown's future is that next year's crop of QB's may actually be worse than this years, of course a lot can happen in a year, but right now I'm not seeing a franchise QB out there.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Teddy Bridgewater is a surefire first round QB I think. To get him we might have to move up though and that can be expensive. Good thing we have a lot of picks. Other than him there are no certainties....but a few guys (Marcus Mariota, Bryn Renner to name a couple) who can emerge with big seasons this year passing the ball. Ya never know this early. We had no idea that Kaepernick or Dalton or Manuel or Weeden would go as high as they did the April before their final college seasons. Lets let it play out before worrying. For all we know Weeden will have a decent 2nd season and we won't be as urgent about getting a new QB. Best case scenario is that Weeden has a good year and we can think about finding his eventual replacement but not as a pressing need.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I think he can be average but I don't think it's going to be enough for Banner and Lombardi to say to each other "this is the dude right here." I think you need an elite passer to make it to the promise land and I don't see Weeden ever reaching that ceiling.

Maybe they do like you suggested and take a more relaxed approach to it and grab someone later. For once, I would like for it to be us that gets the sexy top flight prospect in Bridgewater.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Lombardi on the 2013 draft [Bull & Fox]
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2013/0...at-2013-draft/


"It's about building a team not collecting talent." Banner mentioned the same line when he hired Lombardi as a parting shot toward Heckert. Is it me or is this just pure doubletalk?
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....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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He can say what he wants but the doom of H&H (aside from hiring Shurmur) was not finding a QB. They had Delhomme, McCoy, and rookie Weeden on their watch. No coach in the NFL is gonna win with those guys QBing the team. Heckert drafted pretty well. There were some questionable moves like the Julio Jones trade, but he built a nice foundation of talent with a lot of picks and very few big whiffs on them. Josh Gordon, Trent Richardson, Mitchell Schwartz, Phil Taylor, Billy Winn, John Hughes, Craig Robertson, Ishmaay'il Kitchen, Jabaal Sheard, TJ Ward, Joe Haden, LJ Fort, Tashaun Gipson, Johnson Bademosi, Greg Little, Jordan Cameron, Jason Pinkston - there are some really nice gems in his drafts and UDFA signings. Props to Heckert for putting us in position to be just a QB away from contention.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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Bademosi has quietly been an exceptional ST player.

How do you guys think James Mike Johnson is going to fare inside in the new system?
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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He can say what he wants but the doom of H&H (aside from hiring Shurmur) was not finding a QB. They had Delhomme, McCoy, and rookie Weeden on their watch. No coach in the NFL is gonna win with those guys QBing the team. Heckert drafted pretty well. There were some questionable moves like the Julio Jones trade, but he built a nice foundation of talent with a lot of picks and very few big whiffs on them. Josh Gordon, Trent Richardson, Mitchell Schwartz, Phil Taylor, Billy Winn, John Hughes, Craig Robertson, Ishmaay'il Kitchen, Jabaal Sheard, TJ Ward, Joe Haden, LJ Fort, Tashaun Gipson, Johnson Bademosi, Greg Little, Jordan Cameron, Jason Pinkston - there are some really nice gems in his drafts and UDFA signings. Props to Heckert for putting us in position to be just a QB away from contention.
Sorry, but H&H blew the trade negotiations for RG111, we could easily have outbid Washington as we had stockpiled picks to ensure getting a QB, add in the fact that I heard it more than once that Tannehill would easily have been the top QB in this year's draft and a very likely top 5 QB if not #1 overall, and that makes 2 QB failures on H&H's part.
Saying we are just a QB away is like say I'm just a $1,000,000 away from being a millionaire, the chances of me getting that million anytime soon, is very doubtful and I'd rate Cleveland's chances of getting a franchise QB in the next 2 years as very low. Next year QB crop on paper at this point, is worse than this year's crop and when you build up a team too much before finding a QB, you end up drafting too low to be in range to get one.
I'd rate H&H performance as a D- overall.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, but H&H blew the trade negotiations for RG111, we could easily have outbid Washington as we had stockpiled picks to ensure getting a QB,add in the fact that I heard it more than once that Tannehill would easily have been the top QB in this year's draft and a very likely top 5 QB if not #1 overall, and that makes 2 QB failures on H&H's part.
Saying we are just a QB away is like say I'm just a $1,000,000 away from being a millionaire, the chances of me getting that million anytime soon, is very doubtful and I'd rate Cleveland's chances of getting a franchise QB in the next 2 years as very low. Next year QB crop on paper at this point, is worse than this year's crop and when you build up a team too much before finding a QB, you end up drafting too low to be in range to get one.
I'd rate H&H performance as a D- overall.
Rams fan here...

IAC is absolutely correct when he says Holmgren screwed up the negotiations for RG111. It has been well known among Rams fans that the Rams brain trust of Jeff Fisher and Les Snead WANTED to deal with the Browns much more than any other team. This was due to the fact that Fish wanted to draft either Trent Richardson or Justin Blackmon. Trading down with Cleveland would have ensured that would have gotten one of them.

Also, the Rams in no way would have demanded the same package they got from Washington because of their interest in Richardson or Blackmon. This is why it was reported that Fish threw his glasses when the news broke that Jax had moved ahead of us to pick Blackmon. Yeah, they wanted him pretty bad....

I still cannot understand why Holmgren messed around and at the end of the day did nothing but piss in his own bath water. This deal should have been like falling of a log. And for what....Brandon Weeden??? Gimme a break....

You had a team that needed a franchise QB...you had a team that needed to trade down and get more picks but not so far down that we missed out on the players we had been targeting. This just might be a case of The Fat Guy having to show everyone that he was the smartest one in the room.

Don't get me wrong...I love the deal we got from the 'Skins but I can certainly commiserate with long-suffering Browns fans also. Side note: (My family is originally from Cleveland and I was born in Garfield Heights though raised in Cali - hence why I'm a Rams fan.) A big part of me wants the Browns to return to their former glory. I still remember being regaled by my parents with stories of Otto Graham, Paul Brown, and Jim Brown and Frank Ryan and Paul
Warfield. I knew about the famous Browns sweep - Schafrath and Hickerson IIRC leading Leroy Kelly before I was even a football fan. Holmgren had a chance to restore some dignity to this franchise. Now all he's remembered for is missing out on Robert Griffin.

Or, as the guy who drafted Colt McCoy and Brandon Weedon. Now that's a compelling legacy...

Sorry for rambling on (no pun intended!) but I had to get this off my chest. I so want the Browns to return to their former glory. I'm just sorry that the wrong guy was in charge when a franchise changing opportunity was there for the taking.

Having said all of that I do wish you all the best for the 2013 season.

Thanks for listening.....
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, but H&H blew the trade negotiations for RG111, we could easily have outbid Washington as we had stockpiled picks to ensure getting a QB, add in the fact that I heard it more than once that Tannehill would easily have been the top QB in this year's draft and a very likely top 5 QB if not #1 overall, and that makes 2 QB failures on H&H's part.
Saying we are just a QB away is like say I'm just a $1,000,000 away from being a millionaire, the chances of me getting that million anytime soon, is very doubtful and I'd rate Cleveland's chances of getting a franchise QB in the next 2 years as very low. Next year QB crop on paper at this point, is worse than this year's crop and when you build up a team too much before finding a QB, you end up drafting too low to be in range to get one.
I'd rate H&H performance as a D- overall.
I never said they didn't. In fact I said they made a few questionable moves Botching the chance to get Griffin takes the cake, and the Juilo Jones thing is debatable, but it's looking like we didn't maximize the value of those picks we got in return.

Aside from that we have the most loaded roster we've had in decades and are a playoff team if we get decent QB play. There are plenty of QB teams who get there without great QB play (see Minnesota Vikings, when they made it with Sage Rosenfels or Christian Ponder, or the Baltimore Ravens any year they went before Flacco). If they are willing to deal (or if they get lucky in the draft slotting) then they should be able to get a QB in the next couple years. You never know, they might be able to get their hands on a young veteran like Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles that could turn out to be something. Predicting the future in the NFL isn't that easy.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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I never said they didn't. In fact I said they made a few questionable moves Botching the chance to get Griffin takes the cake, and the Juilo Jones thing is debatable, but it's looking like we didn't maximize the value of those picks we got in return.

Aside from that we have the most loaded roster we've had in decades and are a playoff team if we get decent QB play. There are plenty of QB teams who get there without great QB play (see Minnesota Vikings, when they made it with Sage Rosenfels or Christian Ponder, or the Baltimore Ravens any year they went before Flacco). If they are willing to deal (or if they get lucky in the draft slotting) then they should be able to get a QB in the next couple years. You never know, they might be able to get their hands on a young veteran like Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles that could turn out to be something. Predicting the future in the NFL isn't that easy.
Unfortunately, the likelihood of us getting decent QB play is highly doubtful to say the least , add that to the fact that we play in a tough division and I think it is pure fantasy to see anyway we make the playoffs any time soon.

I also have to question this loaded roster, where is a #1 WR? Where is our offense? You also have to remember that nobody we play takes us seriously, so we never have to face a really good team that is sky high emotionally when they play us, their players have already marked a win down for the game and just go through the motions during the game itself. This is the type of myth that fans fail to realize when assessing a poor team. They think because they pull off the occasional upset or keep some games close, that they are close to being competitive, they never add in the above factor into the equation.

We are going to win between 4-7 games next year and if we win more than 4, our chances of drafting a franchise QB falls to about 5%, because we will be drafting too high. That is the trouble with having a loaded roster minus a QB, you finish too high to be in a position to trade up for a QB, should one be available.
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