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Old 04-23-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
brasho
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I think we are too hard on the guys hired to be scouts for NFL.com or even the ex GM's. Pro teams use a # of scouts to give feedback on prospects and it is never just one guys opinion that decides who a team will draft. Each scout in an organization builds up credibility over years with his GM and then most GM's go over the film as well and attend most of the post season events.

We see Mayock, DJ, Davis etc. all give their opinions and question each, but on a real team their opinions alone would decide a team's draft board and on draft day, each scout would be asked to sell the GM on why that team should pick player 'A' vs player 'B', then the GM decides which point of view he will follow.

Finally, we haven't a clue to what directions these guys get from their bosses at NFL.com, after all, it is a TV program they both work for. Initially Mayock may have had a lot more freedom in earlier days to state his opinions on prospects before the network was really aware of what it was doing, Mayock also wasn't encumbered by having another job as a TV announcer.

For all we know today, NFL.com may instruct Mayock to do a Kiper and change his rankings to keep up interest in the program so they can attract viewers and therefore sell more advertising, after all, it is a business which equals money which equals doing what you are told.

I think we all know that draft boards are pretty well set at this stage and if the NFL wanted, they could give a ranking that would really affect draft day decisions, but that would effect their TV ratings and cost them money, so we just have to put up with the crap they are trying to sell now. All I know is that just before the draft day, they will put out their final grades which will reflect their true grades but until then, all bets are off.
I can't remember what it was you said in the past that made me think you were an idiot... whatever it was, this was such a good post that I am now revising that statement to reflect the opposite.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
So maybe you can understand why I am so against drafting Sharrif "The Creation"Floyd. This is not a guy who would have helped against Doug Martin. The CRAZY thing about that game was I believe we held him to less then 40 yards in the first half.
I know exactly what you mean. Floyd fits in a 4-3 OR a strong hybrid type, like San Fransisco or a New England.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Justifying passing on Floyd bc he "doesn't stop Doug Martin" is not very intuitive.

You don't draft run stoppers with the 3rd pick in the draft. If you're drafting Floyd that high, it's bc you think he can rush the passer from the inside.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Justifying passing on Floyd bc he "doesn't stop Doug Martin" is not very intuitive.

You don't draft run stoppers with the 3rd pick in the draft. If you're drafting Floyd that high, it's bc you think he can rush the passer from the inside.
I didn't use Doug Martin to justify not picking him. Someone brought up Doug Martin's second half romp on us and I mentioned that Floyd would not have help us against Martin. I have been offering reasons why the Raiders should not pick Floyd since before the Combine with no mention of Martin.

I said we should NOT pick Floyd that high in the first place, so why one would pick him #3 overall is irrelevant. I know that my team needs to stop the run first and rush from the outside second. Rushing the interior is a bonus at this point.

Finally, Marcell Darius, Haloti Nagata, Suh and Fairly are all good against the run, so please don't act like stopping the run is not an expectation when it comes to picking DTs high.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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I didn't use Doug Martin to justify not picking him. Someone brought up Doug Martin's second half romp on us and I mentioned that Floyd would not have help us against Martin.

I am said we should NOT pick Floyd that high in the first place, so why one would pick him #3 overall is irrelevant. I know that my team needs to stop the run first and rush from the outside second. Rushing the interior is a bonus at this point.

Finally, Marcell Darius, Haloti Nagata, Suh and Fairly are all good against the run, so please don't act like stopping the run is not an expectation when it comes to picking DTs high.
Suh was drafted as a pass rusher from the inside.

Darius is a good player but not worthy of being a top 3 pick.

Ngata is overpaid for what he brings to the table.

Fairly rushes the passer from the inside.

The 2 guys you mentioned who are primarily run stoppers are overpaid. They don't warrant their salaries. Which is why you don't draft run stoppers high, or give them gobs of money. Their value is limited. Ngata gets paid a ton more than Vince Wilfork yet his impact in comparison to Wilfork is only marginally better. Not worth it.

You pay big bucks to pass rushers. Whether they rush inside or outside, the big bucks have to go to guys who rush. They provide value.

If you stop the run and occupy blockers, your fiscal value should not be top dollar. It's a bad investment.

If you want to justify taking a premiere edge rusher over Floyd I'm perfectly fine with that. That's justified. He provides value for the dollar.

But Star? No. He's a run stuffer. A versatile run stuffer, yes, but not worth a top 3 pick. He doesn't provide enough pass rush.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Suh was drafted as a pass rusher from the inside.

Darius is a good player but not worthy of being a top 3 pick.

Ngata is overpaid for what he brings to the table.

Fairly rushes the passer from the inside.

The 2 guys you mentioned who are primarily run stoppers are overpaid. They don't warrant their salaries. Which is why you don't draft run stoppers high, or give them gobs of money. Their value is limited. Ngata gets paid a ton more than Vince Wilfork yet his impact in comparison to Wilfork is only marginally better. Not worth it.

You pay big bucks to pass rushers. Whether they rush inside or outside, the big bucks have to go to guys who rush. They provide value.

If you stop the run and occupy blockers, your fiscal value should not be top dollar. It's a bad investment.
It's not an either or as far as stopping the run or rushing the passer. Any team would look to get maximum value. These top tier DTs can do both. Who are you to say exactly why they were drafted? You didn't do the evaluation, the individual teams did.

Now you are the one trying to justify your opinion. To suggest that run stopping is optional for a top ten ranked DT is completely laughable. Nagata being overpaid has nothing to do with the conversation whatsoever and it not like he's not on his rookie contract. Dareus being overrated IYO has nothing to do with the fact that he WAS drafted in the top three and was not known as a great pass rusher as a prospect. This completely contradicts your claim that only pass rushers are valued highly at the DT spot.

Finally, you are slickly implying that I said a top tier DT should be a run stopper only, which of course I did not. I said that all top tier DTs need to be able to stop the run efficiently as well. No one disagrees with that.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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It's not an either or as far as stopping the run or rushing the passer. Any team would look to get maximum value. These top tier DTs can do both. Who are you to say exactly why they were drafted? You didn't do the evaluation, the individual teams did.
Ok, so then why are you making this thread and questioning why Oakland would take Floyd high? Afterall, "who are you to say exactly why they were drafted?" right?


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Now you are the one trying to justify your opinion. To suggest that run stopping is optional for a top ten ranked DT is completely laughable. Nagata being overpaid has nothing to do with the conversation whatsoever and it not like he's not on his rookie contract. Dareus being overrated IYO has nothing to do with the fact that he WAS drafted in the top three and was not known as a great pass rusher as a prospect. This completely contradicts your claim that only pass rushers are valued highly at the DT spot.
I didn't say it was optional. I'm saying that a DT who gets paid a lot of money, or is drafted high has to be more than just a run stopper. They have to be exceptional pass rushers. Being a great run stuffer and a decent pass rusher is not valuable enough to go very high in the draft or fork over a huge contract to.

And that is my opinion. I'm not saying that's how it is, but that's how it should be. Dareus is a good player but was he a better pick than Aldon Smith would have been? No way. Why? Bc Smith rushes the passer and Dareus doesn't. It was a poor selection that high because he doesn't provide enough impact as a pass rusher.


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Finally, you are slickly implying that I said a top tier DT should be a run stopper only, which of course I did not. I said that all top tier DTs need to be able to stop the run efficiently as well. No one disagrees with that.
And why do you think Floyd doesn't? Floyd isn't weak vs the run. You don't have to be a Haoliti Ngata like run stopper, but you do need to be a Geno Atkins type of pass rusher to warrant a large investment at DT.

And that's why Floyd is rated higher than Star. Bc it's more valuable to have a Geno Atkins than a Haloti Ngata. It's really that simple.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Default More on the media creation.

NFL Draft insider Tony Pauline reports the Raiders are now "unlikely" to draft Florida DT Sharrif Floyd, even if they stay put at No. 3.
One source close to the situation insisted "the mock draft community is overrating Sharrif Floyd." Pauline believes Floyd could now slip to the Titans at No. 10. We've had a sneaking suspicion all along Floyd might last on the board later than people expect. While he has great ability, Floyd's college production was below average and he is a one-scheme player limited to 4-3 defenses.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Respect Black Bolt.

I don't know why you think DJ had a hidden agenda but you were spot on with the media creation and about your Raiders!
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Respect Black Bolt.

I don't know why you think DJ had a hidden agenda but you were spot on with the media creation and about your Raiders!
Thank you. I don't just run my mouth to hear myself talk. If I'm this demonstrative, it means I know what I am talking about.

And now I'd like to hear from all the comedians in this thread. Who's laughing now??
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-25-2013, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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oh snap, he was right
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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Thank you. I don't just run my mouth to hear myself talk. If I'm this demonstrative, it means I know what I am talking about.

And now I'd like to hear from all the comedians in this thread. Who's laughing now??
I'm still laughing. Bowe is going to make Hayden his ***** on the reg. Come at me homersauce.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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What surprised me is that he was wrong about Floyd but right about Pugh. #19??? I just don't see it.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Thank you. I don't just run my mouth to hear myself talk. If I'm this demonstrative, it means I know what I am talking about.

And now I'd like to hear from all the comedians in this thread. Who's laughing now??
Just don't revisit the Geno Smith thread.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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Blackbolt tore this thread apart. Not just the thread itself, but his responses kicked the **** out of everyone who tried to argue with him. Fairly impressive.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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Reggie McKenzie was trained by Ron Wolf. Wolf and Ken Herock basically hand picked him to be the Raiders GM.

Welcome to not having a freaking clue who the Raiders are going to pick or why they're picking a guy as high as they are.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:20 AM    (permalink
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Thank you. I don't just run my mouth to hear myself talk. If I'm this demonstrative, it means I know what I am talking about.

And now I'd like to hear from all the comedians in this thread. Who's laughing now??
You and me both BB. You and me both.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Good job blackbolt....you crazy *****
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:17 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
I'm still laughing. Bowe is going to make Hayden his ***** on the reg. Come at me homersauce.
LOL!! 5 of the last 6 numb nuts. Dwayne Blow is never the difference. And who's lining up on the other side, Brandon Albert at his new position?
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
You and me both BB. You and me both.
True. You were on the right side of history as well. Feels damn good. Hey, can you pat my back for me while I take a break?
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
vidae
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vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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LOL!! 5 of the last 6 numb nuts. Dwayne Blow is never the difference. And who's lining up on the other side, Brandon Albert at his new position?
I love riling up Raiders homers. It's so fun.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Reggie McKenzie was trained by Ron Wolf. Wolf and Ken Herock basically hand picked him to be the Raiders GM.

Welcome to not having a freaking clue who the Raiders are going to pick or why they're picking a guy as high as they are.
Um, are you saying you don't know why we picked Hayden at #12 which was after Milliner got picked?
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
I love riling up Raiders homers. It's so fun.
Riling me up? Dude, you are the one sweating bullets. You have 4 billion dollars tied up in LT and a bum playing QB.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

- Genius
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
Good job blackbolt....you crazy *****
Ha h! I'll take that.
__________________
Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

- Genius
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
WCH
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WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Um, are you saying you don't know why we picked Hayden at #12 which was after Milliner got picked?
No. I think it's a great pick. I like him more than Milliner.
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