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Old 04-23-2013, 06:03 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by Goganious View Post
Also, I'm sorry, but the "swirling winds at the Ralph" thing is waaaay overrated. How many bad weather games do the Bills REALLY get per season? 3 or 4?

Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are both California kids who don't have howitzers for arms, and they do just fine in GB and NE, respectively.
So if we draft Barkley, your willing to give up on 3 or 4 games a year where his weak arm will be useless at our stadium.
Rodgers has a howitzer for an arm and Brady has above average arm strength after improving it since leaving college. Barkley has a below average pro arm.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Leon Sandcastle View Post
What does Barkley do better than Nassib?
Barkley is far better than Nassib when it comes to accuracy and decision making, which last I checked is much more important in the NFL than footwork in the pocket or whatever else Nassib is better at.

I seriously had to sit down and watch every bit of tape I could find on Nassib because every time I watched him play, either a Syracuse game live, or the senior bowl, I thought he wasn't even worth drafting. After analyzing it a bit more today, I still don't see a QB I'd draft on day 1 or 2, let alone round 1 or top 10. If the Jets take Nassib in the 1st round, I quit. Seriously.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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So if we draft Barkley, your willing to give up on 3 or 4 games a year where his weak arm will be useless at our stadium.
Rodgers has a howitzer for an arm and Brady has above average arm strength after improving it since leaving college. Barkley has a below average pro arm.
First let me say that your responses seem to indicate that you don't WANT the Bills to draft a QB at 8, rather than explaining why you don't think they actually WILL draft a QB at 8. What you WANT to happen and what you THINK will happen are two different things.

The quotes from Nix regarding QBs didn't just start during draft season. He's been saying since the MIDDLE OF LAST SEASON that its time to draft a franchise QB. There are numerous quotes to this effect. One thing about Buddy Nix that all Bills fans should've learned by now is that he shoots straight and tells you exactly what he thinks.

Additionally, both he and Marrone DIRECTLY STATED that they believe there will be a quarterback worth taking at 8, and Nix DIRECTLY STATED that there will be 2-3 franchise QBs in this draft. If he truly believes there are franchise QBs in this draft, he will NOT wait until the second round and risk missing out on one of them. Every team that picks before the Bills in the second round, where they have the 10th pick, could be looking at QB. The Jets, Browns, Eagles, and Cardinals of the world stand a good chance of grabbing whichever QB the Bills are eyeing in the second before they even get a chance at him. Nix has said time and again that he wants a franchise QB in place before he retires, and he will likely retire after this season. He mentioned in recent pressers that they more or less planned to take Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick, except that he had them rated a round later than where they got picked. That lead to his comment that "in this day and age, if you want a QB in the draft, you better take him a round earlier than you think he should go". That means that even if they have a second round grade on Nassib or Barkley, they're going to take them in the first. Gone are the days where you stick so strictly to "value" in terms of quarterbacks (see: Christian Ponder, Jake Locker). The rookie wage scale makes it more palatable to take a QB earlier than his "value" would indicate that you should.

One more question: The years that Wilson and Kaepernick came out, NO ONE had them rated as first round QBs. No one. Yet, if those drafts were re-done today, they would both be taken in the top 10 if not the top 5. If the Bills take a QB in the second, its because they believe he's a franchise guy. If they believe he's a franchise guy, then why wait? You're saying Nassib or Barkley is "worth it" at 41, but not at 8? If they become a franchise QB, aren't they then worth a first round pick? And if they DON'T, then they weren't worth a second round pick either!

Here's the deal: Nix only has 6 picks to work with and has said he wants more. That means no trading back up into the first for a QB. So his options, then, are to either take one at 8 or 41, or trade down later into the 1st and then take his QB there. I believe thats the option he prefers. But if he CAN'T find a trade-down partner, they'll take the guy they like at 8. This is Nix's 4th and likely final draft with the Bills, and I simply do NOT believe he is going to risk losing out on "his guy" by waiting until 41. If you believe he IS willing to take that risk, well, that's your right. But I think you're going to be very disappointed come draft day if this is your expectation. Its gonna be a QB. If you simply read all of the quotes from Nix and Whaley going back to last season regarding acquiring a QB, you will see this.

And one more thing: the "weak arm" argument: Barkley and Nassib both have arms strong enough to make every throw in the NFL. Do they have Stafford/Cutler-like cannons? Nope. But neither did Rodgers or Brady or Brees coming into the NFL, and all three of them are now successful. As you pointed out, they DEVELOPED this arm strength during their NFL tenure. Yet you're saying Barkley and Nassib can't do the same? All you have to do is listen to Nix and Whaley's responses about the QB questions (including arm strength) to see which direction the Bills are headed. And don't give me the "smokescreen" crap. I will now post another reply which includes the pertinent quotes, and you can tell me if it sounds to YOU like they're not thinking QB at 8.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Q: Is there a quarterback good enough to be picked at the eighth spot?

Buddy Nix: You know I think there is. Also, I’ve said from Day One, this quarterback class is better than everybody thinks it is. It’s better than the publicity that they get. And by that I mean there’s about five or six of those guys, maybe seven, that do a lot of things good and do them good enough to win. This is not a standard answer. I’ve said this from the start that two or three of these guys will be franchise quarterbacks, I believe that. You look back at last year and the year before, I mean Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick, right now if you were drafting you’d take them first. You’d take them first in the top five. So the jury’s out on this group but they do enough good things that if you do what they do best you can win with them.

Q: What are Nassib’s best traits, football-wise?

Doug Majeski: Obviously he’s got a strong arm. He can make all the throws. He’s got touch timing, all the things we look for in a quarterback. When you talk about Ryan (Nassib), his intangibles are all positive. He’s kind of an easy guy when you go through the scouting process. When you put it all together it comes out very good.

Q: Is his (Nassib) deep throw a concern?

Doug Majeski: Some are good, maybe some you miss. All these quarterbacks are going to miss some throws. All these quarterbacks are going to throw some picks. You look at the body of work, you look at the pro day stuff and you look at everything they do. Who are they throwing to? There are a lot of reasons or factors that go into it. Like I said, he can make all the throws and he can make them well.

Q: Does Barkley have the arm to whip it through a Buffalo wind?

Doug Whaley: In our opinion, a guy that does not have an outright cannon can still get away with it with having timing, being able to anticipate throws, being able to have knowledge of defenses, when to throw to a spot and when to adjust his throwing motion to get the most out of what he has. A perfect example of that is Joe Montana. Joe Montana did not have the strongest of arms. He is still arguably one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history.

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Old 04-23-2013, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Barkley's arm strength:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diPGRbjp4BQ

The video's only a minute long. Watch it.

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Old 04-23-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Barkley suits their WCO but he just doesn't have the arm strength to handle the winds at Buffalo's stadium, Buffalo needs a QB with a strong arm.
He also doesn't have the foot quickness that scouts look for in WCO QBs. Look at the guys who've had success in the system, from Montana to McNabb, they all had much quicker feet than Barkley.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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First let me say that your responses seem to indicate that you don't WANT the Bills to draft a QB at 8, rather than explaining why you don't think they actually WILL draft a QB at 8. What you WANT to happen and what you THINK will happen are two different things.

The quotes from Nix regarding QBs didn't just start during draft season. He's been saying since the MIDDLE OF LAST SEASON that its time to draft a franchise QB. There are numerous quotes to this effect. One thing about Buddy Nix that all Bills fans should've learned by now is that he shoots straight and tells you exactly what he thinks.

Additionally, both he and Marrone DIRECTLY STATED that they believe there will be a quarterback worth taking at 8, and Nix DIRECTLY STATED that there will be 2-3 franchise QBs in this draft. If he truly believes there are franchise QBs in this draft, he will NOT wait until the second round and risk missing out on one of them. Every team that picks before the Bills in the second round, where they have the 10th pick, could be looking at QB. The Jets, Browns, Eagles, and Cardinals of the world stand a good chance of grabbing whichever QB the Bills are eyeing in the second before they even get a chance at him. Nix has said time and again that he wants a franchise QB in place before he retires, and he will likely retire after this season. He mentioned in recent pressers that they more or less planned to take Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick, except that he had them rated a round later than where they got picked. That lead to his comment that "in this day and age, if you want a QB in the draft, you better take him a round earlier than you think he should go". That means that even if they have a second round grade on Nassib or Barkley, they're going to take them in the first. Gone are the days where you stick so strictly to "value" in terms of quarterbacks (see: Christian Ponder, Jake Locker). The rookie wage scale makes it more palatable to take a QB earlier than his "value" would indicate that you should.

One more question: The years that Wilson and Kaepernick came out, NO ONE had them rated as first round QBs. No one. Yet, if those drafts were re-done today, they would both be taken in the top 10 if not the top 5. If the Bills take a QB in the second, its because they believe he's a franchise guy. If they believe he's a franchise guy, then why wait? You're saying Nassib or Barkley is "worth it" at 41, but not at 8? If they become a franchise QB, aren't they then worth a first round pick? And if they DON'T, then they weren't worth a second round pick either!

Here's the deal: Nix only has 6 picks to work with and has said he wants more. That means no trading back up into the first for a QB. So his options, then, are to either take one at 8 or 41, or trade down later into the 1st and then take his QB there. I believe thats the option he prefers. But if he CAN'T find a trade-down partner, they'll take the guy they like at 8. This is Nix's 4th and likely final draft with the Bills, and I simply do NOT believe he is going to risk losing out on "his guy" by waiting until 41. If you believe he IS willing to take that risk, well, that's your right. But I think you're going to be very disappointed come draft day if this is your expectation. Its gonna be a QB. If you simply read all of the quotes from Nix and Whaley going back to last season regarding acquiring a QB, you will see this.

And one more thing: the "weak arm" argument: Barkley and Nassib both have arms strong enough to make every throw in the NFL. Do they have Stafford/Cutler-like cannons? Nope. But neither did Rodgers or Brady or Brees coming into the NFL, and all three of them are now successful. As you pointed out, they DEVELOPED this arm strength during their NFL tenure. Yet you're saying Barkley and Nassib can't do the same? All you have to do is listen to Nix and Whaley's responses about the QB questions (including arm strength) to see which direction the Bills are headed. And don't give me the "smokescreen" crap. I will now post another reply which includes the pertinent quotes, and you can tell me if it sounds to YOU like they're not thinking QB at 8.
Well, if Nix thinks there is a QB in this year's draft worth the 8th pick, I suggest he won't last long in his job. Neither Barkley nor Nassib are anywhere near worth the 8th pick.

Wanting to draft a QB at #8 and there being one there worth the risk are two different things, perhaps Smith will get taken early but I wouldn't touch him that high and Barkley should go late round 1 because I like his leadership skills and basic talent but Nassib will never be much in the NFL IMO.

If we were talking about say, the 18-25th pick, it might be worth the risk for a desperate team, but you cannot wish a QB to be there at #8, if it is only a pipe dream. Far better in this scenario, to draft a real talent and look for a franchise QB in next year's draft. You simply cannot waste top 10 picks and hope to be competitive any time soon.

Personally, I've followed the draft seriously for over 55 years and I've learned that you cannot pay any attension to what a GM says prior to the draft, nor can you rely on past tendancies, so if you are putting your faith in Nix's comments, I think you are going to be in for a shock on draft day.

Anyways, in 2 days we'll know who is right and nothing you or I think will make one bit of difference.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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One more question: The years that Wilson and Kaepernick came out, NO ONE had them rated as first round QBs. No one. Yet, if those drafts were re-done today, they would both be taken in the top 10 if not the top 5. If the Bills take a QB in the second, its because they believe he's a franchise guy. If they believe he's a franchise guy, then why wait? You're saying Nassib or Barkley is "worth it" at 41, but not at 8? If they become a franchise QB, aren't they then worth a first round pick? And if they DON'T, then they weren't worth a second round pick either!

Quote:
Wilson always had 1st round talent but out of the thousands of QB's drafted into the NFL, with any level of success, less than 1% of them were as short as he. That is why he lasted till round 3.
So, we have Kaepernick and guess what, the success rate for round 2 QB's is about 10%. Brady went in round 6, are you suggesting we wait till round 6 to find our QB, GM's are well aware of the stats and %'s and they gamble at their own risk. I know I wouldn't like those odds if I'm building a franchise.


Here's the deal: Nix only has 6 picks to work with and has said he wants more. That means no trading back up into the first for a QB. So his options, then, are to either take one at 8 or 41, or trade down later into the 1st and then take his QB there. I believe thats the option he prefers. But if he CAN'T find a trade-down partner, they'll take the guy they like at 8. This is Nix's 4th and likely final draft with the Bills, and I simply do NOT believe he is going to risk losing out on "his guy" by waiting until 41. If you believe he IS willing to take that risk, well, that's your right. But I think you're going to be very disappointed come draft day if this is your expectation. Its gonna be a QB. If you simply read all of the quotes from Nix and Whaley going back to last season regarding acquiring a QB, you will see this.

Quote:
Nix is hampered by his owner, small market teams rarely trade up because it costs their owner more money, their GM's are forced to stay put and accept the risks.


And one more thing: the "weak arm" argument: Barkley and Nassib both have arms strong enough to make every throw in the NFL. Do they have Stafford/Cutler-like cannons? Nope. But neither did Rodgers or Brady or Brees coming into the NFL, and all three of them are now successful. As you pointed out, they DEVELOPED this arm strength during their NFL tenure. Yet you're saying Barkley and Nassib can't do the same? All you have to do is listen to Nix and Whaley's responses about the QB questions (including arm strength) to see which direction the Bills are headed. And don't give me the "smokescreen" crap. I will now post another reply which includes the pertinent quotes, and you can tell me if it sounds to YOU like they're not thinking QB at 8.
Never suggested Nassib had a weak arm just Barkley, and Nix can do what he wants but as I said, it is a pipe dream if he thinks any QB in this draft is worth the 8th pick and plain stupid if he thinks either Barkley or Nassib have a shot at being a true franchise QB's.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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One more question: The years that Wilson and Kaepernick came out, NO ONE had them rated as first round QBs.
Wrong.

Complete ******** on Kaepernick. He was picked 36th. I'm sure there were tons of scouts people that liked him 4 or more slots better than where he was taken.

As for Russell Wilson, there were plenty of people who thought he was a first round talent. If height wasn't such an overblown issue there's no doubt he would have been a first rounder. Had he been 6'4" he probably would have been picked by the Browns at 3.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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I may not have enough laughter gifs if Nassib is selected in the top ten.
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The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:15 AM    (permalink
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I may not have enough laughter gifs if Nassib is selected in the top ten.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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I honestly think Manuel is consideration at 8. Is it a stretch by everyone's imagination? Yes. Yes it is. But we should all know by now that Buddy Nix does not give a **** what you or anyone else thinks. If I had to say who the pick would be at this point, I'd say it's between Barkley and Manuel.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...e-ryan-nassib/

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According to Sal Paolantonio of ESPN, Buffalo believes the Jets are seriously interested in Nassib, and the Bills fear that if they don’t draft Nassib, they might end up facing him twice a year.

The Jets pick three times before the Bills’ second selection, No. 41 overall: The Jets own the No. 9 pick, the No. 13 pick and the No. 39 pick. So if the Jets do like Nassib, any hope the Bills have of taking him in the second round goes out the window.

We’ve also heard the Bills fear that the Jaguars are interested in taking Nassib with the first pick of the second round, No. 33 overall. So even if the Jets’ interest is a smokescreen, the Bills may not be able to wait until the second round to get their man.

In other words, if Buffalo really wants Nassib, it needs to spend the No. 8 overall pick on him. Or at least that’s what other teams want the Bills to think.
I'm starting to think Nassib at #8 is really going to happen.

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Old 04-24-2013, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...e-ryan-nassib/



I'm starting to think Nassib at #8 is really going to happen.
Yea I saw that as well. I wonder if they would go after Pugh in the second round as well if Marrone really wants a few of his guys.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Wonder if these reports are coming from the Bills or the Jets.

On one hand, if Buffalo knows that they're going to take Nassib at 8 it makes sense to do some damage control. Saying a division rival with a QB need and 3 picks between their first and second round selection is interested in him pre-draft is certainly one way to do it. We already saw Nix do some damage control in his pre-draft presser, talking up the QB class.

At the same time, if the Jets think that the Bills really want Nassib, it would make sense for them to leak out that they're interested. Since the Bills have six picks they're probably not going to want to move up to their second rounder back into the first, so ideally they'd want to drop down from 8. Obviously they wouldn't want to lose out on Nassib, though. So if the Jets don't have any interest in Nassib and pressure the Bills into taking him at 8 they avoid a team jumping up ahead of them at 8 to take a player they actually are interested in 9 and it increases the chances overall that guys they like will slip to both 9 and 13.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Yea I saw that as well. I wonder if they would go after Pugh in the second round as well if Marrone really wants a few of his guys.
I'll paste what I wrote in a similar thread:
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Another thing Nix has said is that he doesn't like drafting guards. He prefers to draft tackles, then, if they don't work out, you move them to the guard position. That, coupled with the fact that he has repeatedly said that he thinks our next guard is already on the roster, makes me say with 99.99% certainty that we're not going Warmack or Cooper at 8. Plus, guards never go that high. I don't think we'd go the way of tackle, either, because the highest tackles Buddy has taken are Glenn and McNeill, both in the second round. I really hope people stop mocking guards to the Bills because it's not going to happen
Yes, this post was in regards to Warmack or Cooper at #8, but I still don't think we go guard that early in the draft. Buddy seems confident that we have our next LG on the roster, and he's always been a straight-shooter. I don't think he's changing that in what's likely his last year as GM.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Jets are "very high" on Nassib?!?!? No way that's true, I had this first impression that Izdik was smart. Shoot me now if that's true
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Wonder if these reports are coming from the Bills or the Jets.

On one hand, if Buffalo knows that they're going to take Nassib at 8 it makes sense to do some damage control. Saying a division rival with a QB need and 3 picks between their first and second round selection is interested in him pre-draft is certainly one way to do it. We already saw Nix do some damage control in his pre-draft presser, talking up the QB class.

At the same time, if the Jets think that the Bills really want Nassib, it would make sense for them to leak out that they're interested. Since the Bills have six picks they're probably not going to want to move up to their second rounder back into the first, so ideally they'd want to drop down from 8. Obviously they wouldn't want to lose out on Nassib, though. So if the Jets don't have any interest in Nassib and pressure the Bills into taking him at 8 they avoid a team jumping up ahead of them at 8 to take a player they actually are interested in 9 and it increases the chances overall that guys they like will slip to both 9 and 13.
I really hope you're right. I'm really nervous about this. If the bills take Barkley and we take Nassib I will be inconsolable.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Any team that isn't interested in Nassib is hoping that the Bills take him at #8, because it pushes somebody else down a slot. So the Jets could easily be projecting a false interest.

I'm always hoping that five or six QBs go before the Packers first pick.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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I honestly think Manuel is consideration at 8. Is it a stretch by everyone's imagination? Yes. Yes it is. But we should all know by now that Buddy Nix does not give a **** what you or anyone else thinks. If I had to say who the pick would be at this point, I'd say it's between Barkley and Manuel.
That's true, Nix can draft anybody he wants, however putting a wining team out on the field hasn't been his strong point, so if he wants to continue down the road to another decade of mediocrity, who am I to complain, just another frustrated Bills fan who has had to endure the total failure of our organization for years.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Any time the Jets and Bills are interested in a QB, you gotta take him in the top 10
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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I really hope the Jets do "poach" Nassib from us and that the rumors about Tavon Austin @ 8 are true.

Please....

And I agree with Bills2083...I don't think it is just Nassib at QB that is in play at 8, and that there is a lot of interest in either Barkley or EJ as well.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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ESPN's Todd McShay suggested on SportsCenter that West Virginia's Tavon Austin is in play for the No. 8 overall pick.
McShay said Austin is a hot name and he's "even heard in the last couple days there's a possibility that the Bills could take him at No. 8." We wonder if the division-rival Bills and Jets are jockeying against one another at Nos. 8 and 9. Word leaked early Wednesday that the Jets might poach obvious Bills target Ryan Nassib in the first round. Now, the Bills may be spreading word they're willing to select likely Jets target Austin before New York goes on the clock.
LOL. Looks like Sexy Rexy has engaged the Bills in a game of prospect footsie.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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I refuse to believe the Jets will take a QB, maybe they are trying to put pressure on us to take Nassib at #8, but it won't work. Ryan is coaching for his job, he's not going to want to do it with a rookie QB, and a first year GM who very likely will be hiring a new coach next year isn't going to put that new coach in a position where he has to accept a QB who isn't his "guy".

The Jets won't take a QB, I refuse to believe it.

Also, at the draft luncheon Nix talked about how deep the S class is this year, how WR is very deep cause of so many college teams running the spread, and how he is happy with our in-house guards. I think we do go QB, just because we rarely pull the wool over anyone eyes, and that's where all the arrows point right now, but reports today came out saying we've made calls to move down, so hopefully that happens and we don't take whatever QB they want at #8.

If we are stuck at #8 it's going to be Geno Smith, Nassib, Barkley, Manuel, Vaccaro, Jarvis Jones or Mingo. We just moved Aaron Williams to S, Searcy has looked good, and Bryd is our franchise player, so Vaccaro isn't likely in my opinion.

I think Jarvis Jones makes the most sense as "Nix" pick, he fits all the things Nix loves to say about his picks, "produced for several years against elite competition (SEC), if he did it in college consistently he'll do it in the pro's ... etc".

However, i've read that in the past 3 years, Nix had final say in the pick, it was all him, this year it's a collective between him, Whaley, Brandon and Marrone. I don't know how that could affect the pick, if he could be over-ruled. If anything I hope the collective hits the phones harder than Nix has in the past and is more willing to move around.

Now I'm not sure if Jones fits the Ryan/Pettine defensive mold, but he makes the most sense at #8 if we stay, him or we reach for a QB. If Jones ran a 4.6-4.7 and didn't have a spinal stenosis diagnosis in the past, he'd be considered a top 5 player.

One Bills Drive (Marrone, Nix, Whaley) have been going out of their way to say this QB class is better than people think, so they are either pulling their own smoke screen (we aren't smart enough for that), or we are taking a QB.
I've probably written up a response in this thread a couple times only to scrap when I realized I'm talking in circles and, as usual, have no idea what we are going to do. But this is probably the post that most closely reflects my own thoughts. My highest expectation is still QB, but I am with you on the alternatives.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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I have it in good confidence that the Raiders or the Eagles are seriously going to take Nassib.

He won't make it past #4.
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