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Old 04-26-2013, 07:54 AM    (permalink
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Wow, a lot of hate here. I liked the pick. Do I love it? No. Do I hate it? No. But I liked it.

Pugh was on my list of guys I wouldn't mind in the 1st. I personally had Kyle Long rated higher and if I had to choose a OLmen with that pick, I go with Long, but I'm pleased with Pugh.

Pugh is either gonna be a G or C for us and be a very good interior OLmen. I think this selection speaks to our lack of depth with our developmental OLmen as well.

If I made the selection, I would have taken Floyd. I thought we were going Floyd there, and I'm a little disappointed that we didn't take him.

But honestly, I don't mind Pugh at all. Rhodes and Tank were on my board after Floyd, but Tank is still available so maybe my initial gut on him was right. I did like Rhodes, but to be fair, the CB depth is pretty damn good in this draft.

Do I love the pick? No. It's not the "sexy" pick. But we pretty much got a guy who we can plug in on the OL for the next 4 to 5 years minimum and not worry about.

And the 2nd round is gonna be awesome.

So far I give Reese a B-
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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One regret I have so far is, I let outside influences effect my own opinions too much in this draft.

I didn't like Tank, then I pretty much coerced myself into him. Broke my own rule and let others convince me when my gut told me he's missing something. Also thought he was a 2nd rounder, then bought into the top 10 hype. He's still available.

I thought Brown as a great player but a 2nd round draft pick, but got convinced that he's going in the 1st. He's still available.

I always thought Kyle Long was going high in the 1st, so I'm glad that panned out. I think Kyle can play LT in the pros, that was a great pick by Chicago.

I also love Mingo and Ansah so it's no surprise to me that they went very high. Same with Dion, although I think Dion needs to do some serious core training to succeed.

Not surprised Millner fell a little. Wasn't a huge Millner fan. I'm a huge DJ Hayden fan and I'm not surprised he went high, but boy is he a risk. Huge risk, but if he pans out they got the best CB in the draft.

But I keep telling myself this every year and I fall for it every year, I let outside influences effect my opinion too often. I gotta stick to my guns and trust my eyes.

That's one thing I'm disappointed in myself about.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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https://twitter.com/JustinPugh67

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Old 04-26-2013, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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We could double dip with OLmen too and take a RT in the 2nd round. A very good RT prospect could be there with our pick.

If we do that, we pretty much have our OL set for the next 5 years with 3 young players and 2 developmental guys behind them.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Ok so I'm awake from my malaise.

Like Scotty said I've seen this guy get abused by average to below average Rutgers pass rushers which has me worried. With that said I'll have to give Reese & Co. the benefit of the doubt here. I hope it works out so I'm not going to even bash it. My friend from work went to HS with this kid in Pennsylvania. Apparently he just had a recent shoulder surgery so that's something to keep an eye on also.

Does he start at RT for us from day 1?
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, the run on offensive linemen was insane this year. I think with a passing league teams are starting to emphasize O-Line even more these days, particularly with pass protecting linemen first.

I'm pretty much in the same camp as you, BBD. I'm good with the pick, wasn't in love with it but didn't hate it by any means. I think I was more okay with it because: I was not a fan of Carradine at 19 (if he's there in the second I'm all for it), I wasn't a huge Rhodes fan, and although Floyd would have been my choice he is pretty much the definition of a boom or bust pick, which scares me at the DT position.

I'm okay with the pick. It's the second round I'm interested in. We literally have a hundred different options.

Could we go WR? Hunter, Woods, and Allen all on the board.
TE? I'd love Ertz.
LB? Would love Brown at our pick. Even Kasheem or Moore would be a good choice.
CB? Banks and Ryan. AND Blidi Wreh-Wilson. Would love him.
S? Swearinger and Cyprien.
DT? Hankins, Williams and Jenkins.
DE? Carradine, Moore, Okafor
OT/OG? Warford, Watson. I think I see why going OL might have been a better choice in the first. Not a ton of depth left at the position in these next two rounds.

And, I don't think it would ever happen, but do you think we would consider Geno if he was at our pick? Huge if because I'm certain someone will take him or trade up for him, but I don't know.

Let him sit 4 years ala Rodgers and learn under Eli? Will never happen and I would not want that to happen considering we have much greater and more immediate needs but honestly, if there is one thing that has been affirmed by this draft and many others is its you can NEVER predict who Jerry Reese will take. And I think as we've seen that's not always a bad thing.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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Ok so I'm awake from my malaise.

Like Scotty said I've seen this guy get abused by average to below average Rutgers pass rushers which has me worried. With that said I'll have to give Reese & Co. the benefit of the doubt here. I hope it works out so I'm not going to even bash it. My friend from work went to HS with this kid in Pennsylvania. Apparently he just had a recent shoulder surgery so that's something to keep an eye on also.

Does he start at RT for us from day 1?
They want him to start out at RT, but I highly doubt he stays there. He's a Guard or Center. In fact, his best position is probably Center. I think he sits on the bench like all our rookies, and when we give Diehl and possibly Baas the boot next year, he gets a starting position somewhere along the OL.

I would have took Kyle Long if I had to choose an OLmen. But I'm ok with Pugh.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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19 seems a little high for a C no?
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Not to me. You guys know I've been saying OT has become an overrated position for the past 2 years.

Well I also feel that C, and interior OLmen in general are an underrated commodity. Now can you get good Guards after round 1? Absolutely.

But with the way defenses play now, how they stretch offensive lines horizontally and create space between OTs and the interior OL for defensive ends to rush wide against a Guard or Center on 3rd down, your interior OL has become extra OTs in pass protection.

And because they don't receive the chips and protection slides, they're just as much on an island on 3rd down as your OT.

Interior OL play is more valuable than OT play. I rather have a strong interior than strong bookends.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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They want him to start out at RT, but I highly doubt he stays there. He's a Guard or Center. In fact, his best position is probably Center. I think he sits on the bench like all our rookies, and when we give Diehl and possibly Baas the boot next year, he gets a starting position somewhere along the OL.

I would have took Kyle Long if I had to choose an OLmen. But I'm ok with Pugh.
I hope he's not "just" a guard. Because you shouldn't draft guards in round 1 unless they have at least pro bowl potential. Not sure if I see Pugh as a future pro bowl anything from what I've seen of him after we picked him. He's a solid, smart, hard-working dude. Good and solid, but unspectacular IMO. Which is fine for a first round RT. but not for a first round guard.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Pugh is not a sexy pick by any means but he could be a very nice addition. He gives you a lot of flexibility and you needed another lineman somewhere.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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A 3rd round C went in the first. Also, center is quickly becoming one of the most valuable positions on the field. TWO guards went in the first round, three if you count Pugh. Not to mention another center.

The game has changed. Our perception of value is probably skewed compared to NFL evaluators because clearly they have no problem taking guards and centers in the first. I like Pugh at guard, personally - maybe RT depending what happens with Brewer. If you can get a stud guard at 19 I think that's a good thing.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Well I'm sold on him more than last night for sure. No more offense now that we have an OL out of the way. Sorry NYG.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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Haha yeah. We literally can go ANYWHERE. It's sort of scary.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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A 3rd round C went in the first. Also, center is quickly becoming one of the most valuable positions on the field. TWO guards went in the first round, three if you count Pugh. Not to mention another center.

The game has changed. Our perception of value is probably skewed compared to NFL evaluators because clearly they have no problem taking guards and centers in the first. I like Pugh at guard, personally - maybe RT depending what happens with Brewer. If you can get a stud guard at 19 I think that's a good thing.

I wouldn't automatically assume he'll be kicked inside. His greatest asset is his blend of terrific feet and balance. To instantly move him inside without allowing him to prove himself on the edge would be a mistake.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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A 3rd round C went in the first. Also, center is quickly becoming one of the most valuable positions on the field. TWO guards went in the first round, three if you count Pugh. Not to mention another center.

The game has changed. Our perception of value is probably skewed compared to NFL evaluators because clearly they have no problem taking guards and centers in the first. I like Pugh at guard, personally - maybe RT depending what happens with Brewer. If you can get a stud guard at 19 I think that's a good thing.
Yup I was just asking. Excellent points by you and BBD though. I'm fine with it. Like I said yesterday no TE or Te'o and I'm happy so I'm happy.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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Yup I was just asking. Excellent points by you and BBD though. I'm fine with it. Like I said yesterday no TE or Te'o and I'm happy so I'm happy.
Haha I feel you. My initial reaction was sort of "meh" but as I've looked on it I think it's a good choice. Was it my first choice? Not overly so, but I think it will work out well for us.

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I wouldn't automatically assume he'll be kicked inside. His greatest asset is his blend of terrific feet and balance. To instantly move him inside without allowing him to prove himself on the edge would be a mistake.
Oh, I wasn't try to say that. I just think as our team stacks up in the future, guard might be his position. It just depends. If Brewer pans out then he probably will be a guard. If he doesn't, I think he could profile as our RT for sure.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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I like the guy as well, don't get me wrong. But I disagree with the principle of "if you can get a solid, but unspectacular guard at #19, you take him". I don't value guards that highly, especially when we have lots of good examples on our own team and across the league of guards taken in the mid- and sometimes late rounds reaching pro bowl and all pro levels. Seems to me that it's a lot easier to find a good mid-round guard or RT than other positions we had available.

But whatever, I'll trust Reese, because he has earned the right to be trusted by the fans. Pugh will contribute to our team in a positive way, like all the other 1st round picks Reese has made.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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At least if he stinks the puns will be endless! I think that's the most I'm taking out of this.

We must have a thing for Big East OL lately.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:02 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I think the perception here is that you guys are upset that we didn't get a good player. You don't have an issue with the position he plays, you guys just don't think he's gonna be very good.

And that's fair. We all evaluate players differently. I won't knock you if that's how you feel.

I do feel that he's gonna be a good player, I don't see him as a stud OT but I think he can be a very good G or C.

I think his ceiling is Eric Winston (the good Eric Winston) at RT, his floor is Ryan Khalil (if they try him at Center), or his floor is Andre Levitre at G. He reminds me of Levitre a lot honestly.

I think his best fit is Center bc of his intelligence, but I think he's most likely going to be a G.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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I'm very excited for today. I really have my fingers crossed for Ryan and Moore. I don't know why but I think if we keep it all East Coast it'll work out fine for us.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I think the perception here is that you guys are upset that we didn't get a good player. You don't have an issue with the position he plays, you guys just don't think he's gonna be very good.

And that's fair. We all evaluate players differently. I won't knock you if that's how you feel.

I do feel that he's gonna be a good player, I don't see him as a stud OT but I think he can be a very good G or C.

I think his ceiling is Eric Winston (the good Eric Winston) at RT, his floor is Ryan Khalil (if they try him at Center), or his floor is Andre Levitre at G. He reminds me of Levitre a lot honestly.

I think his best fit is Center bc of his intelligence, but I think he's most likely going to be a G.
Really? You think his floor is Levitre as guard and Kalil as center? Me personally, I think that's overrating him a lot. But like I said, I trust Reese. And I would endorse picking a C or a G if they are Kalil/Levitre as a floor. I just don't see that kind of potential with Pugh.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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I want Khaseem Greene and Jordan Poyer today. Would also be thrilled with Washington, Arthur Brown, Sio Moore, Wreh-Wilson or Logan Ryan. Those are my main targets today.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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I think we are set up for a nice 2nd round. Tank, Brown, Cyprien, Swearinger, Banks and Minter still on the board. I am not a fan of Pugh, but I am glad we adressed OL.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Really? You think his floor is Levitre as guard and Kalil as center? Me personally, I think that's overrating him a lot. But like I said, I trust Reese. And I would endorse picking a C or a G if they are Kalil/Levitre as a floor. I just don't see that kind of potential with Pugh.
What's his flaws? Core strength and short arms. Short arms kick him inside. Core strength is very fixable in an NFL weight room. He's a sound technician and he's very intelligent, so protection schemes, being able to adjust mid play when Eli adjusts the calls and adjusting protections himself won't be a problem for him. He's got quick feet, he's a mauler when he gets his hands on you, and he's got great technique.

His base is weak, but again, that's what an NFL weight room is for. Give him a year to develop, build his base, kick him inside and you have a hell of an interior OLmen.
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