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Old 04-26-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
Rosebud
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I think the perception here is that you guys are upset that we didn't get a good player. You don't have an issue with the position he plays, you guys just don't think he's gonna be very good.

And that's fair. We all evaluate players differently. I won't knock you if that's how you feel.

I do feel that he's gonna be a good player, I don't see him as a stud OT but I think he can be a very good G or C.

I think his ceiling is Eric Winston (the good Eric Winston) at RT, his floor is Ryan Khalil (if they try him at Center), or his floor is Andre Levitre at G. He reminds me of Levitre a lot honestly.

I think his best fit is Center bc of his intelligence, but I think he's most likely going to be a G.
Weird thing about this is I rate Levitre and Kalil more than I do Winston. Levitre was actually my favorite FA OL this year and Kalil is one of my favorite C's in the whole league. I'm fine with this. Pugh isn't my ideal OL, but he fits what the giants like, great feet and balance, smart and technical while still being a tough guy.

He reminds me a lot of Diehl back when he was still really good, Diehl was a very good RT before we made him a near all-pro LG, and a quite capable LT after that.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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God damnit BBD stop making me warm up to this pick!
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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What's his flaws? Core strength and short arms. Short arms kick him inside. Core strength is very fixable in an NFL weight room. He's a sound technician and he's very intelligent, so protection schemes, being able to adjust mid play when Eli adjusts the calls and adjusting protections himself won't be a problem for him. He's got quick feet, he's a mauler when he gets his hands on you, and he's got great technique.

His base is weak, but again, that's what an NFL weight room is for. Give him a year to develop, build his base, kick him inside and you have a hell of an interior OLmen.
Yes, my main concerns are those two things. I feel arm length is a big issue for Olinemen. Not as much inside, but it's still a concern. And what do we know about his frame. Can it support the extra bulk? I feel he would be better suited in a zone blocking scheme. Even with the added bulk and core strength he may or may not be able to build.

I would honestly be happier if we selected a guy like Menelik Watson in round two or Barrett Jones in round three. I feel those guys are in the same area of talent as Pugh, and then we wouldn't need to use our first round pick on a developmental RT.

But hey, he's a Giant now, so I will support him until he gives me plenty of reasons not to. I just hope he will become as good as you project him to become. If he does become a Levitre/R.Kalil or even a good, but unspectacular RT, I will be happy. We needed to get some Olinemen in this draft anyways. I just think we kinda reached for Pugh.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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I forget who, but one of the "experts" compared him to Marshall Yanda. If he turns out to be that, I'll be very happy. But who knows.

The fact that everyone said he was a tackle but we put guard when we turned the pick in tells me enough that he probably won't be anything but an emergency option at RT. Maybe he could beat out Brewer and Diehl at RT this season but long term I don't think they view him that way.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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A Yanda like player would be excellent. Isn't Yanda bigger though?
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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A Yanda like player would be excellent. Isn't Yanda bigger though?
Yanda is between 6'3" and 6'4" and listed at 315. Was listed at 305 coming out of college so not surprised he added some weight after getting to the NFL.

Same exact knock on Yanda. Guy who played LT and RT in college but with short arms. Played a little RT for the Ravens when they are in a pinch, but turned out to be one of the best guards in the league.

Main difference is Yanda went in round 3. So Pugh better be good. Yanda also has that nasty side like Snee, Suebert, and all good guards have. Have no clue if Pugh plays like that.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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I mean, if he turns into a Dave Diehl (prior to falling off now of course) type or maybe a Snee I think that would be fantastic. I'm not saying he will become the next Snee but if he's somewhere between that level I would be very very happy with the pick.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I'm with BBD that I think interior OL has become a bit underrated and I'm fine drafting it in the first round.

My issue is value, if we get a guard in rd 1, I want the stud G of the draft and we took the 3rd best one. I go Floyd there, or a CB.

I'm not terribly disappointed, but I will be if this guy sits all year. While, as I said, I don't have an issue with interior OL in round 1, it still is a bit of a stretch and at the very least the player should be able to step in day 1.

At least its not Te'o. I liked watching ESPN with 3 Vikings picks where they were saying it'd be Te'o each time.

Unfortunately no elite talent fell to us this year like years past. Its a shame we couldn't move up for Star and Reid went the pick before us.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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I also wonder if we got played a bit here. Thought one of Cooper or Fluker would get to us and then maybe couldn't work a trade down.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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I did want Floyd at that point just to throw that at there. Floyd/Jenkins/Joseph would have been nasty.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Whats the deal with Floyd? Why did he fall so much? I don't know much about him but I see Florida and just assume character.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Oh ugh, he was a Philly fan
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Also this happened because Pugh messed up:

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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I also wonder if we got played a bit here. Thought one of Cooper or Fluker would get to us and then maybe couldn't work a trade down.
Yeah, I think so too. We obviously didn't like any of the corners enough to take them at #19, and the two big guards, the DL players with value and the two safeties were gone.

So we got stuck in no mans land. I just hope we stuck to our board as Reese and company say they did, and that we didn't panic and selected the #3/4 guard prospect too early like it looks like we did.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Whats the deal with Floyd? Why did he fall so much? I don't know much about him but I see Florida and just assume character.
Mayock said that he asked around and heard "5 career sacks" and a lot about his limited production.

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Old 04-26-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I think we got played by San Francisco. Everyone knows Reese will never move around. He sits pretty and waits for the draft to come to him. The 49ers knew we were hot for Reid, and moved to 18 to get him. I'm almost positive we take Reid if he was there at 19. But SF identified it and got him.

So we probably went to our board, had Pugh rated as the best guy, and took him. That's just how Reese operates, I don't have a problem with it.

Now if it were me, I take Floyd. Maybe I'm missing something on Floyd but the thought of him and JPP alongside each other would have been great. Gruden was killing Floyd and thinks he's not that great, so maybe the Giants feel the same way. Wouldn't surprise me since so many teams passed on Floyd. But I thought Floyd was pretty good. I didn't scout him heavily bc I never expected him to be there, but I thought he was good from what I saw of him.

It's always interesting to see how your own preferences line up with your team.

Last year in the first 3 rounds, I would have went:

1. Stephen Hill
2. Bobby Massie
3. Robert Turbin

and we went

1. David Wilson
2. Rueben Randle
3. Jaron Hosely

I think Reese did better than me. So far this year I would have taken Floyd, and Reese chose Pugh.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Too much hate on this pick. It's not sexy, but Pugh is good. In two years he will be the best player on our O-line. That's is not saying much about our O-line but he has exactly what we like in a lineman and he came to right place to succeed.

I actually hated the David Wilson and JPP picks more than this one. JR shut me up on both accounts. I am glad we didn't reach on Carradine he just isn't that good, Rhodes would have been nice but I think JR is confident Prince will step up and Webster can be solid in a #2 role, Shariff is overrated he loves football as much as Marvin Austin does, we don't need another one, and I don't think Kyle Long fits our lunch pail o-line.

When Sheldon Richardson, Star, and DJ Fluker came off the board, I was just praying we didn't take Teo. Thank god. Now please Arthur Brown round 2.

#inreeseitrust #dontdoubtreese #jr #pugh
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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I think we got played by San Francisco. Everyone knows Reese will never move around. He sits pretty and waits for the draft to come to him. The 49ers knew we were hot for Reid, and moved to 18 to get him. I'm almost positive we take Reid if he was there at 19. But SF identified it and got him.

So we probably went to our board, had Pugh rated as the best guy, and took him. That's just how Reese operates, I don't have a problem with it.

Now if it were me, I take Floyd. Maybe I'm missing something on Floyd but the thought of him and JPP alongside each other would have been great. Gruden was killing Floyd and thinks he's not that great, so maybe the Giants feel the same way. Wouldn't surprise me since so many teams passed on Floyd. But I thought Floyd was pretty good. I didn't scout him heavily bc I never expected him to be there, but I thought he was good from what I saw of him.

It's always interesting to see how your own preferences line up with your team.

Last year in the first 3 rounds, I would have went:

1. Stephen Hill
2. Bobby Massie
3. Robert Turbin

and we went

1. David Wilson
2. Rueben Randle
3. Jaron Hosely

I think Reese did better than me. So far this year I would have taken Floyd, and Reese chose Pugh.
Paul Dottino said that we had no DB's rated as high as 19 and that SF jumped in front of us for no reason.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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I'm fine with the position, I am. Really. Just not a Pugh fan. Seen him get beat by Rutgers too many times and he's just pretty slow in pass protection. Position wise: I'm fine. Character/work ethic: yeah, he checks out great and seems like a great guy and typical giant. I just don't see the talent there, is all.

And I looooove Tank. But sleeping on it: yeah, position wise it was fine. I would've preferred Long, but he's even more of a project I feel.

Also just means James Brewer is ANOTHER wasted mid-round project OL pick, yippee!!!
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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It wouldn't surprise me, I think our guy was Vaccaro.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Paul Dottino said that we had no DB's rated as high as 19 and that SF jumped in front of us for no reason.
I love PDot, but sometimes I think he pulls stuff out of his ass.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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I mean we obviously have no idea but it's very possible. I wish teams would release their boards like 20 years after the draft. It would be awesome to see.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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Jerry Reese himself said that trade didn't change anything. Pughney was the guy they wanted. I don't think J.R. is dumb enough to get the guy he wanted stole in front of him by a trade up two years in a row. I think they are mastering the smoke screens.

All this hate on Tank, but it was the concern about his knee that dropped him not his play.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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I think they'll try to sell us the fact that he's a RT first, that he has great versatility, and he's smart for a few reasons.

With many needs on Defense reaching on a tackle that we project to the interior but has never played it would send the New York Media/fans ballistic.

So we say he's a RT, thats where he'll play knowing damn well thats not our intentions in the long run. To counter any naysayers arguments they say well he's versatile knowing he's never played any other position than LT. But again to counter any skeptics they say well he's smart he'll learn those positions quick.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Ok so the pick isn't sexy, it isn't what most of us wanted in the first round due to value, but if you look at it as if what he could be than it eases your mind.

He seems like he is an interior lineman, but can do most of anything which is very valuable to us because then it allows us to carry more players at other positions a la Rich Seubert. I do believe, like most of you, that his best position is center, but i think he could be a pretty good pulling guard due to his ability to block in space (which is very valuable for teams that run sweeps and outside runs like we will likely do with David Wilson).

He could very well be a starter for his entire contract, especially since Coughlin said he was ready to start from day 1 (how often is that said by our organization?).

Edit:

That said I wish we traded down and got a 3rd because I really do believe that Pugh would have been there later, most teams do not covet him because of his lack of size, and I agree his tape isnt that enthralling.
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