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Old 04-28-2013, 04:04 PM    (permalink
TheFinisher
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Here's what Scott had to say about the Frederick pick:

Quote:
Dallas has been criticized for this choice but it wasnít nearly as bad as some have made it out to be. Frederick was the top rated center in this class by most and there had been rumblings that he could sneak into the latter part of round one for months. In fact, most felt Frederick was a better prospect than his former teammate Peter Konz, who was a second rounder a year ago and started for the Falcons as a rookie. Teams know exactly what they are getting with Badger offensive linemen and Frederick certainly fits that blue-collar mold. Frederick is limited athletically but is is a big, tough, powerful blocker with a nasty temperament and the type of blocker Dallas looks for on the interior. So just to recap, the Cowboys chose a player in the proper range who addresses a need and profiles as a ten-year stalwart. Perhaps I'm missing something but whatís not to like aisde from the sexiness factor?
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Look, I dont want to try to build a case of why not to like TF, I hope hes a 10 year starter and multible time pro bowler. My problem is #1 we got SCREWED by moving down 13 spots and only getting a 3rd back. #2 NOBODY had him as a 1st round pick including us. #3 There were higher rated players available at that spot. Elam, Crypien, were superior prospects and also filled a need. Its not like Travis was rated a 8.0 and the next Center was a 6.5. Is he a dood player? Yes. Is he an upgrade? Yes. Could we have gotten him or somebody like him at 47 or even 74? Yes, and thats the problem.

Scott Wright ‏@DraftCountdown 27 Apr
Didn't realize the #Cowboys were such a great team that they could afford to select backups with premium draft picks. #NFLDraft

We had a good to decent draft, IMO it could have been WAY better thats all.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Mel is Mel. There are a lot of different opinions out there.

Tony Pauline said...

- Last year Kevin Zeitler of Wisconsin was a surprise selection in round one when the Cincinnati Bengals tabbed him with the 27th pick. Who will be the surprise of the first frame this year? At this stage sources tell me it could be Zeitlerís former Badger teammate Travis Frederick. One general manager has referred to Frederick as the best interior run blocking line the draft has witnessed in more than a half-decade. We hear Frederick will be a tight 315-pounds for the combine. Where could he end up? Sources tell me possibly the Indianapolis Colts at pick 24 as the team needs a guard or the Atlanta Falcons at pick 30. Watch what Atlanta does in free agency. We hear the game plan is to move Peter Konz, who started at guard as a rookie last season, to center and then sign a veteran guard. If they donít sign a veteran then Frederick could be an option.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=6741
That was PRE combine BTW. Most had Moore a top 5 pick PRE Combine and he went in the 3rd round (Where Travis should have gone?)
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Mel is Mel. There are a lot of different opinions out there.

Tony Pauline said...

- Last year Kevin Zeitler of Wisconsin was a surprise selection in round one when the Cincinnati Bengals tabbed him with the 27th pick. Who will be the surprise of the first frame this year? At this stage sources tell me it could be Zeitler’s former Badger teammate Travis Frederick. One general manager has referred to Frederick as the best interior run blocking line the draft has witnessed in more than a half-decade. We hear Frederick will be a tight 315-pounds for the combine. Where could he end up? Sources tell me possibly the Indianapolis Colts at pick 24 as the team needs a guard or the Atlanta Falcons at pick 30. Watch what Atlanta does in free agency. We hear the game plan is to move Peter Konz, who started at guard as a rookie last season, to center and then sign a veteran guard. If they don’t sign a veteran then Frederick could be an option.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=6741


Wow. Dude ended up being dead on about a ton of things that happened in the draft really early in the process once I read through that blog.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

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Old 04-28-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Look, I dont want to try to build a case of why not to like TF, I hope hes a 10 year starter and multible time pro bowler. My problem is #1 we got SCREWED by moving down 13 spots and only getting a 3rd back. #2 NOBODY had him as a 1st round pick including us. #3 There were higher rated players available at that spot. Elam, Crypien, were superior prospects and also filled a need. Its not like Travis was rated a 8.0 and the next Center was a 6.5. Is he a dood player? Yes. Is he an upgrade? Yes. Could we have gotten him or somebody like him at 47 or even 74? Yes, and thats the problem.

Scott Wright ‏@DraftCountdown 27 Apr
Didn't realize the #Cowboys were such a great team that they could afford to select backups with premium draft picks. #NFLDraft

We had a good to decent draft, IMO it could have been WAY better thats all.
Where are the back ups Dallas drafted? Anymore teams use 2 tight end sets all the time, and your back up RB is almost as important as your starter especially when your starter has history of injuries.

I am with you on the compensation of the trade. I thought we could get more. I differ with you on the finding a player as good as Frederick later in the draft though. I easily liked him better than anyone else left, and I don't think he would have lasted till our next pick.
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Where are the back ups Dallas drafted? Anymore teams use 2 tight end sets all the time, and your back up RB is almost as important as your starter especially when your starter has history of injuries.

I am with you on the compensation of the trade. I thought we could get more. I differ with you on the finding a player as good as Frederick later in the draft though. I easily liked him better than anyone else left, and I don't think he would have lasted till our next pick.
You ask where the backups are that we drafted then say your backup RB is almost as important lol. Is Escobar, Williams, Wilcox, Webb, Randle, Holloman starters? NO. Will some of them play a bunch? Yes. Those were Scotts words not mine, I can see value in some of the picks, I just think we passed on better prospects that fit a need. We'll never know if he would have been there at 47 but IMO there were better prospects at 31 and certainly at 18 that we passed on. We all have different opinions and we can share our thoughts and ideas on here. Thats what makes this fun. I hope 2 years from now you guys will give me crap and say I was dead wrong about the pick. Ill gladly eat my words
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Old 04-28-2013, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Look, I dont want to try to build a case of why not to like TF, I hope hes a 10 year starter and multible time pro bowler. My problem is #1 we got SCREWED by moving down 13 spots and only getting a 3rd back. #2 NOBODY had him as a 1st round pick including us. #3 There were higher rated players available at that spot. Elam, Crypien, were superior prospects and also filled a need. Its not like Travis was rated a 8.0 and the next Center was a 6.5. Is he a dood player? Yes. Is he an upgrade? Yes. Could we have gotten him or somebody like him at 47 or even 74? Yes, and thats the problem.

Scott Wright ‏@DraftCountdown 27 Apr
Didn't realize the #Cowboys were such a great team that they could afford to select backups with premium draft picks. #NFLDraft

We had a good to decent draft, IMO it could have been WAY better thats all.
The story of the last 20 drafts in a nutshell.

Remember premium pick on Martellus to be a back-up who blocks.

Felix to be a scat back and third down change of pace.

Spencer on top of Carpenter the previous year.

Goes on and on.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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This draft is getting alot of heat, I assume for the 1st 2 picks, but I think we did pretty well.

The trade value is a valid point, but given how it turned out, unless you think we should have wound up w/ 2 extra picks, it's kind of a moot point given Williams at 62 would have been good value anyway.

This franchise has ignored interior O line and safety for years, and this year used 2 premium picks. Unless they completely whiffed, Frederick is better than Costa, Wilcox will be better than McCray, and also hopefully Randle will be better than Felix, and Williams will be better than Ogletree.

I also think we have a bit of insight into what 2014 might bring, i.e. resigning Spencer, cutting Scandrick and possibly Miles if Webb and Williams work out.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Every year people will complain about the draft how we missed on better prospect and how we screwed up. I think you have to just accept it and move on.....every team makes picks that are questionable. It happens all the time.

Example:
Couple years ago the Eagles drafted like 2 safeties and people on this same board complained, yet those two safeties never became stars and the eagles had to sign FA. (Allen and Jarrett)

I am just saying that we need to just look at the players and give them a chance. If Frederick goes and starts all games his rookie year nobody will say anything. All players do not become stars....this game is about 11 players who play and some we become stars and others will become support players.

The Draft is not about gettting 7 STARS. You are lucky if you can come out of it with at least 1 Star and 3 starters in the years to come.

I have read that some teams had great drafts...AGAIN that term....we don't know all we know is that the players they picked were higher on the position rankings than others. SF had 11 picks....DO U THINK THEY WILL KEEP EVERYONE? no...MANY OF THESE PLAYERS WILL BE CUT OR PUT ON PRACTICE SQUAD.

The way the contracts are structure now their is more movement after the first 4 years. So it's not like all ur players will stay will u longer than that.

We are still the Cowboys and we can still go out and get FA....trust me.

Every year you have to draft new players and next year we will do it again and you will see that new players will come in. I am sure next year...we will get DL and OL.....

You have to look at the roster and see what teams need. You can go through the whole draft and scratch ur head with some teams pick...because sometimes they are picking to add depth or they like a players because it fits their needs....ALL TEAMS DO IT.

1st Round - lets see how many games he starts and see if he is the center before we judge

2nd Round - 2 TE Sets......could become a weapon

3rd Round - We have a speedster who can stretch the field.....not all recievers play or need to have the same skill set..u need different kinds of players on ur team.

Lets give this class a chance.....
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Things can always be better... For all 32 teams.

I'm not the happy police but I think if people have a realistic understanding for how the draft process works, then they can understand why teams can get desperate during the process and even make an early reach to ensure getting their guy.

There is no way in hell that Frederick was a 3rd round pick. At most, he's a 16 pick reach because we would've taken him at 47. Is that worth crying about? Absolutely not.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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That was PRE combine BTW. Most had Moore a top 5 pick PRE Combine and he went in the 3rd round (Where Travis should have gone?)
So what if it was pre combine? So a slow 40 time causes a center to go from a fringe 1st rounder to a 3rd? I don'tlike that argu ment. Watch the damn tape.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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So what if it was pre combine? So a slow 40 time causes a center to go from a fringe 1st rounder to a 3rd? I don'tlike that argu ment. Watch the damn tape.
LOL then explain to me how Moore went from top 5 to the 3rd round? Yes the 40 time, bench reps, shuttle, all the things they do at the combine matter!! How about Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, Tyler Wilson, ect ect. At one time or another they were all considered 1st round picks. Did they all fall cuz all of a sudden they couldnt throw the ball anymore? People move up and down after the combine EVERY YEAR SMH...
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Things can always be better... For all 32 teams.

I'm not the happy police but I think if people have a realistic understanding for how the draft process works, then they can understand why teams can get desperate during the process and even make an early reach to ensure getting their guy.

There is no way in hell that Frederick was a 3rd round pick. At most, he's a 16 pick reach because we would've taken him at 47. Is that worth crying about? Absolutely not.
It is when you could have had one of Floyd, Eifert, Cyprien, Elam, AND Fredrick.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by chrlopez1 View Post
Every year people will complain about the draft how we missed on better prospect and how we screwed up. I think you have to just accept it and move on.....every team makes picks that are questionable. It happens all the time.

Example:
Couple years ago the Eagles drafted like 2 safeties and people on this same board complained, yet those two safeties never became stars and the eagles had to sign FA. (Allen and Jarrett)

I am just saying that we need to just look at the players and give them a chance. If Frederick goes and starts all games his rookie year nobody will say anything. All players do not become stars....this game is about 11 players who play and some we become stars and others will become support players.

The Draft is not about gettting 7 STARS. You are lucky if you can come out of it with at least 1 Star and 3 starters in the years to come.

I have read that some teams had great drafts...AGAIN that term....we don't know all we know is that the players they picked were higher on the position rankings than others. SF had 11 picks....DO U THINK THEY WILL KEEP EVERYONE? no...MANY OF THESE PLAYERS WILL BE CUT OR PUT ON PRACTICE SQUAD.

The way the contracts are structure now their is more movement after the first 4 years. So it's not like all ur players will stay will u longer than that.

We are still the Cowboys and we can still go out and get FA....trust me.

Every year you have to draft new players and next year we will do it again and you will see that new players will come in. I am sure next year...we will get DL and OL.....

You have to look at the roster and see what teams need. You can go through the whole draft and scratch ur head with some teams pick...because sometimes they are picking to add depth or they like a players because it fits their needs....ALL TEAMS DO IT.

1st Round - lets see how many games he starts and see if he is the center before we judge

2nd Round - 2 TE Sets......could become a weapon

3rd Round - We have a speedster who can stretch the field.....not all recievers play or need to have the same skill set..u need different kinds of players on ur team.

Lets give this class a chance.....
The problem is, is that we are 128-128 with 1 playoff win in the last 17 years. You want to give Jerry the benifit of the doubt but I gotta ask why? Every team hits and every team misses, I get that but our track record is not good. Its not even close to good.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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So now we have 2 guards and a Tackle that suck, 3 TEs and 2 of them cant block, two 30+ DTs one of which missed most of the year due to injury, 2 below average Safetys. And to top it off we brought in ZERO UFA on either line.

IDK, I just dont get it.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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LOL then explain to me how Moore went from top 5 to the 3rd round? Yes the 40 time, bench reps, shuttle, all the things they do at the combine matter!! How about Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, Tyler Wilson, ect ect. At one time or another they were all considered 1st round picks. Did they all fall cuz all of a sudden they couldnt throw the ball anymore? People move up and down after the combine EVERY YEAR SMH...
Moore received POOR reviews from someone at Texas. He was criticized as lazy and irresponsible. Also had a drug arrest that didn't scream high character. He was a case that he had a very high film grade but slipped due to character.

Same with Tyler Bray. He probably has the best arm in the entire class but he went undrafted due to being a knucklehead.

Frederick was an elite guy on tape that slipped because he didn't blow people away in the underwear olympics. The Lions reportedly were looking at him at the top of the 2nd so the idea of him slipping to 47 is a fallacy.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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LOL then explain to me how Moore went from top 5 to the 3rd round? Yes the 40 time, bench reps, shuttle, all the things they do at the combine matter!! How about Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, Tyler Wilson, ect ect. At one time or another they were all considered 1st round picks. Did they all fall cuz all of a sudden they couldnt throw the ball anymore? People move up and down after the combine EVERY YEAR SMH...
Who had him top 5? The talking heads? Who had those guys as first rounders? You see the teams boards?
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Moore received POOR reviews from someone at Texas. He was criticized as lazy and irresponsible. Also had a drug arrest that didn't scream high character. He was a case that he had a very high film grade but slipped due to character.

Same with Tyler Bray. He probably has the best arm in the entire class but he went undrafted due to being a knucklehead.

Frederick was an elite guy on tape that slipped because he didn't blow people away in the underwear olympics. The Lions reportedly were looking at him at the top of the 2nd so the idea of him slipping to 47 is a fallacy.
Moore didnt go to Texas, didnt mention Bray, Nobody kinows if Detroit would have taken him or not. Earlier somebody reported that the colts might take him at 24 or somebody else at 30. The fact is neither team took him. Even if he wasnt there at 47 Warford was and Schwenke and Jones were available even later than that. Also you know as well as I do, rankings change after the combine every year. You denying that?
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Moore didnt go to Texas, didnt mention Bray, Nobody kinows if Detroit would have taken him or not. Earlier somebody reported that the colts might take him at 24 or somebody else at 30. The fact is neither team took him. Even if he wasnt there at 47 Warford was and Schwenke and Jones were available even later than that. Also you know as well as I do, rankings change after the combine every year. You denying that?
I said Texas because the articles I found on it didn't mention the coaching staff at A&M. Whether it be parents, high school coaches, teammates, opposing coaches, etc. :)

So why are you arguing it was bad value if you cannot predict what teams do? It's a two-way street. You can't know that Frederick would of lasted until 47. I say he wouldn't of any cite the Lions interest. You cite your sources and say he would have. I counter with Pauline and other scouts who saw him as a 1st round talent. You counter with your sources. It's all hearsay.

Frederick was the #1 center and Dallas slotted him 22nd on their board. By their value they drafted a player 9 selections ahead of perceived value.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Who had him top 5? The talking heads? Who had those guys as first rounders? You see the teams boards?
Lol, your right. None of the "talking heads" know anything. Yours is the only opinion that matters. Every pick we made were great picks and they will all go on to be pro bowlers. Jerry has a track record of that
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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I said Texas because the articles I found on it didn't mention the coaching staff at A&M. Whether it be parents, high school coaches, teammates, opposing coaches, etc. :)

So why are you arguing it was bad value if you cannot predict what teams do? It's a two-way street. You can't know that Frederick would of lasted until 47. I say he wouldn't of any cite the Lions interest. You cite your sources and say he would have. I counter with Pauline and other scouts who saw him as a 1st round talent. You counter with your sources. It's all hearsay.

Frederick was the #1 center and Dallas slotted him 22nd on their board. By their value they drafted a player 9 selections ahead of perceived value.
Where did I argue he would be there at 47? I believe he would have been but thats irrevelent. My arguement is that we passed on better prospects IMO (if Im allowed to have one) and could have gotten a similar player to Fredrick at 47 if not him.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Lol, your right. None of the "talking heads" know anything. Yours is the only opinion that matters. Every pick we made were great picks and they will all go on to be pro bowlers. Jerry has a track record of that
Strawman. You're changing the conversation.

Let me give you two examples. Floyd was a consensus top 5 pick by everyone. Well, it ends up 22 teams passed on him. Same thing w decosta last year. Everyone had him top 10 but went late 20s. The talking heads aren't clueless, but they aren't always right.
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Strawman. You're changing the conversation.

Let me give you two examples. Floyd was a consensus top 5 pick by everyone. Well, it ends up 22 teams passed on him. Same thing w decosta last year. Everyone had him top 10 but went late 20s. The talking heads aren't clueless, but they aren't always right.
So one guy says hes a fringe 1st rounder pre combine, and several "talking heads" says hes a 2nd/3rd rounder after the combine, means the 1st guy is right cuz we drafted him huh? Got'cha.
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Bryan Broaddus ‏@BryanBroaddus 2m
ď@oledustytrail: @BryanBroaddus any truth to the rumors that cowboys wanted Patterson at 31 until the Vikings got him?Ē Truth.

Seems Fredrick wasnt even our target. Panic move?
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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Bryan Broaddus ‏@BryanBroaddus 2m
ď@oledustytrail: @BryanBroaddus any truth to the rumors that cowboys wanted Patterson at 31 until the Vikings got him?Ē Truth.

Seems Fredrick wasnt even our target. Panic move?
If he wasn't our first choice why does that translate to panic? Why can't that mean he was simply the next man up?
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