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Old 04-30-2013, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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Alright Ill stop "trolling" Ive been a fan of the Dallas Cowboys since 1975 and will always be a fan. Its clear that if its not all rosey and if you have a negative opinion on different things it doesnt want to be seen in here. After the last 17 years of watching 128-128 football under the same leadership, its gotten hard for me to give Jerry the benifit of the doubt. Sorry Ive ruined some of your guys day and I dont want to get into Bob territory where people dont want to come in here because of me. Ill try to bite my tongue and be a bit more pleasant.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Okay. You wouldn't accept that the line of thought was 31+74 > 18. We agreed to disagree on where the value of Frederick fell. We discussed positional value.

You bring up sacks for 3-4 defensive lineman under BP and Ryan both of whom do not utilize them as pass-rushers as their first duty. You then compare their sack production with the Texans who turned Watt loose to have him act as their primary pass rusher.

If you genuinely thought the Texans utilizes Watt the same way as the Cowboys Hatcher than I apologize for the trolling comment. I thought you were being facetious.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Heres some positive for you, over the next 4 years of Romo we will have Dez (24) Coale (24) Costa (25) Escobar (22) Fredrick (22) Hannah (23) Murray (25) Randle (21) Tyron (22) Williams (23)

Thats some good young talent to build around so adding a few pieces should make this offense good for a long time.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Where is Ware playing again, LDE or RDE?
I'd say mostly in opponents backfields. That's where he excels best.

haha jk. Ware will play RDE. I'm not sure if Kiffin plans to move him around or not. But majority of his snaps should be at RDE. That's one of the most important positions on defense for a Tampa 2 D, imo. He's gotta create instant pressure. Ware has the fastest first step of our DEs, so naturally he's got to be that guy.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Alright Ill stop "trolling" Ive been a fan of the Dallas Cowboys since 1975 and will always be a fan. Its clear that if its not all rosey and if you have a negative opinion on different things it doesnt want to be seen in here. After the last 17 years of watching 128-128 football under the same leadership, its gotten hard for me to give Jerry the benifit of the doubt. Sorry Ive ruined some of your guys day and I dont want to get into Bob territory where people dont want to come in here because of me. Ill try to bite my tongue and be a bit more pleasant.
That's never been the case and you know it.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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WDE so RDE. If Kiffin remains true to his alignments he'll play a TON either on or beyond the tackles outside shoulder. Meaning unless you put a TE on him Ware is going to get a lot of 1v1s with room to move inside or bend around the outside.

One of the main reasons I'm excited is where we look to place him.
I want to see how well he does. I hope he is a flop and the system change was a poor decision, as a rival fan, but I wonder if DW can be as effective in a 43 than in a 34. I don't see him ranking up as many sacks with his hand in the dirt. I'd be impressed and very surprised year 1, he puts up 14 plus sacks.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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I want to see how well he does. I hope he is a flop and the system change was a poor decision, as a rival fan, but I wonder if DW can be as effective in a 43 than in a 34. I don't see him ranking up as many sacks with his hand in the dirt. I'd be impressed and very surprised year 1, he puts up 14 plus sacks.
Well one good thing about it, he'll be coming after the QB. No more dropping into coverage half the time.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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That's never been the case and you know it.
Depends on who your debating.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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I want to see how well he does. I hope he is a flop and the system change was a poor decision, as a rival fan, but I wonder if DW can be as effective in a 43 than in a 34. I don't see him ranking up as many sacks with his hand in the dirt. I'd be impressed and very surprised year 1, he puts up 14 plus sacks.
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Well one good thing about it, he'll be coming after the QB. No more dropping into coverage half the time.
What Pocket said. Also add in that Ware will no longer be the primary guy for maintaining the outside edge. He'll be the guy responsible for rushing the passer. I do agree that Kiffin will have to get creative with his linebacker blitzes though to free up Ware otherwise the opposition can park a TE on Ware for the double team all game long.

If Jason Hatcher plays half as good as Kiffin hyped him up pre-draft he could be in for a monster season on the inside too.

The chance of Kiffin being vanilla and leaving Ware to his own devices, and double teams, does scare the hell out of me though. The majority of my fears this year stem from bad coaching rather than talent deficiencies.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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I wanna know what Kiffin exactly means when he says "go watch the seahawks".

Was he just talking to the secondary? Cause he told that to Carr.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I wanna know what Kiffin exactly means when he says "go watch the seahawks".

Was he just talking to the secondary? Cause he told that to Carr.
Yeah from what I gathered from it I assumed secondary. As in we'll be physical on the outside with Carr/Claiborne and play less off-zone.

Press-zone is sexy. That Tillman INT play on Dez was about the best example I can think of for how to play press-and-bail. Even though it was a mis-communication between Dez and Romo this type of scheme is made for turnovers.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Well that's the thing about playing a 43 DE. He has to set the edge and get a pass rush. If he sets the edge, reads run, he has to be able to disengage and make a play.

That's hard to do. Justin Tuck was useless last year. He couldn't set the edge nor get any sacks. That's why I am glad Kiwi can help and d. Moore rotate in here and there.

These are the sort of things I want to see Ware do. If he can do all these things and still get his consistent production, then man, that's one all time player who can be productive in 2 different systems.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Hello everyone, new to the boards and wanted to give my impression of the Cowboys draft.

First, I think this draft was a good one and the main reason besides the obvious(needing an upgrade at C or G)which I believe Frederick will be, but the additional offensive weapons we added(Escobar and Williams)

We were not as bad a team last year as many think we were, we had some devastating injuries on both sides of the ball that I feel were the real cause of us not making the playoffs.

That being said the two other major issues we needed to address, getting off to a slow start which hurt us in many games last season and having trouble scoring in the red zone.
Hopefully the additional offensive weapons will help in these areas, so I don't have a problem with their selections at all, not to mention my concerns with dept at WR and RB if Austin or Murray have issues again.

Wilcox may need time to develop but I think Webb will help push Scandrick and add quality depth behind him.

Would I have liked to have seen a Guard or Tackle added at some point, yes, but all in all I like what they did. I'm sure they'll bring in some help via free agency.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Well that's the thing about playing a 43 DE. He has to set the edge and get a pass rush. If he sets the edge, reads run, he has to be able to disengage and make a play.

That's hard to do. Justin Tuck was useless last year. He couldn't set the edge nor get any sacks. That's why I am glad Kiwi can help and d. Moore rotate in here and there.

These are the sort of things I want to see Ware do. If he can do all these things and still get his consistent production, then man, that's one all time player who can be productive in 2 different systems.
Ware will be ok. Besides if he misses a guy Bruce/Lee will be there to eat them up!
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Well that's the thing about playing a 43 DE. He has to set the edge and get a pass rush. If he sets the edge, reads run, he has to be able to disengage and make a play.

That's hard to do. Justin Tuck was useless last year. He couldn't set the edge nor get any sacks. That's why I am glad Kiwi can help and d. Moore rotate in here and there.

These are the sort of things I want to see Ware do. If he can do all these things and still get his consistent production, then man, that's one all time player who can be productive in 2 different systems.
I believe he played with his hand on the ground in college, so it's not that much of an adjustment.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Well that's the thing about playing a 43 DE. He has to set the edge and get a pass rush. If he sets the edge, reads run, he has to be able to disengage and make a play.

That's hard to do. Justin Tuck was useless last year. He couldn't set the edge nor get any sacks. That's why I am glad Kiwi can help and d. Moore rotate in here and there.

These are the sort of things I want to see Ware do. If he can do all these things and still get his consistent production, then man, that's one all time player who can be productive in 2 different systems.
I definitely agree that he should be considered a marvel if he can be successful in 2 different systems. In reality, it's like his 4th different system. He dropped back way more with Parcells and Ryan than he did with Wade. But honestly, I think playing 3-4 OLB is more demanding of a player. Creating edge rush on passing plays and playing gap control against the run is nothing new for him. He was already asked to do that. Now, he gets to do that full time.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Of course it is. This isn't Troy anymore, and it's the NFL. Now he will have to do the stuff that 43 DEs do. Set the edge and rush the passer. The annoying issue is teams will run quick game or 3 step drops that will negate the pass rush which hurt us as well. That's what you can expect against you guys too.

Like I said it will be very interesting to see how it plays out.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Hello everyone, new to the boards and wanted to give my impression of the Cowboys draft.

First, I think this draft was a good one and the main reason besides the obvious(needing an upgrade at C or G)which I believe Frederick will be, but the additional offensive weapons we added(Escobar and Williams)

We were not as bad a team last year as many think we were, we had some devastating injuries on both sides of the ball that I feel were the real cause of us not making the playoffs.

That being said the two other major issues we needed to address, getting off to a slow start which hurt us in many games last season and having trouble scoring in the red zone.
Hopefully the additional offensive weapons will help in these areas, so I don't have a problem with their selections at all, not to mention my concerns with dept at WR and RB if Austin or Murray have issues again.

Wilcox may need time to develop but I think Webb will help push Scandrick and add quality depth behind him.

Would I have liked to have seen a Guard or Tackle added at some point, yes, but all in all I like what they did. I'm sure they'll bring in some help via free agency.
Welcome to the boards Jas! We have a small but passionate group here. We always welcome new voice, so welcome to the family! :)
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Of course it is. This isn't Troy anymore, and it's the NFL. Now he will have to do the stuff that 43 DEs do. Set the edge and rush the passer. The annoying issue is teams will run quick game or 3 step drops that will negate the pass rush which hurt us as well. That's what you can expect against you guys too.

Like I said it will be very interesting to see how it plays out.
Yeah, I'm excited but fearful at the same time.

Right now, I trust our players more than I trust the coaches. That's scary.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I'm excited but fearful at the same time.

Right now, I trust our players more than I trust the coaches. That's scary.
Playing 43 is tough. This is the issue we deal with all the time. We have dealt with this since 2004. Do you have depth at DE to rotate in? You can't keep Ware all day long out there or he won't be effective. Do you have other bullets or just one main bullet?

We have:

Kiwi
Tuck
JPP
Moore
Ojomo

and I think a few more. What worries me is that a team once again uses quick game to negate everyone, which happened last year. By the time they make a move on their respective OL guys, the ball is out for a 3-5 yard gain. And unlucky one would be a deep fade, and we forget to cover the WR, lol. That happened a lot last year.

So 43 system, and 43 DEs, it's tough to be productive.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Ware is a far better player than Tuck, and he believes he won't have any problem making the switch. So I'll trust him on that. The depth behind him and Spencer is a concern though.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Ware is a far better player than Tuck, and he believes he won't have any problem making the switch. So I'll trust him on that. The depth behind him and Spencer is a concern though.
In a 34 system year he is and much more productive. Also, Tuck is old and useless now so that's how saying much. However, it's a real issue, and so I don't see Ware being productive consistently like he was in a 34 system.

So basically you guys will rolling with 2 DEs the whole game? Good luck with that.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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We ran a 43 for most of our history and we rolled with two very sucessfully in the 90's with Haley and Tolbert, I know the league has become far more pass happy since that time but I don't think it's impossible, but as I stated the depth behind them is a big concern, especially in the event of an injury.
They may have to give Hatcher or Crawford a look at both DE as well as DT.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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We ran a 43 for most of our history and we rolled with two very sucessfully in the 90's with Haley and Tolbert, I know the league has become far more pass happy since that time but I don't think it's impossible, but as I stated the depth behind them is a big concern, especially in the event of an injury.
They may have to give Hatcher or Crawford a look at both DE as well as DT.
It's a challenge, and I mean that was so long ago. The league has changed leaps and bounds. Even Monte Kiffin coming back will be interesting because the game has changed since he left. There are a lot of question marks I see that I am looking forward to see answered.

I think depth is key. We have so much depth now at DE and DT, and still I have ZERO confidence in stupid Perry Fewell. At least now, the fool has no excuses. We have enough DEs and tons of DTs.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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It's a challenge, and I mean that was so long ago. The league has changed leaps and bounds. Even Monte Kiffin coming back will be interesting because the game has changed since he left. There are a lot of question marks I see that I am looking forward to see answered.

I think depth is key. We have so much depth now at DE and DT, and still I have ZERO confidence in stupid Perry Fewell. At least now, the fool has no excuses. We have enough DEs and tons of DTs.
We're also moving Kyle Wilbur OLB to DE, which again is a transition but he's a quick kid so we'll see how that plays out. We do need the depth though and I agree the switch back to the 43 will be interesting.
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