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Old 04-29-2013, 06:36 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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Exactly! I am expecting mid rankings like 15th in total defense. If we hit 20s or especially late 20s, then fewell needs to be not re-signed. I would not want him re-signed anyways. I can't stand his scheme.
What I like actually is that retooling the Oline and bolstering our receiving weapons and a Wilson/Brown running game should help make our already explosive offense even better.

The Olinemen we have are more athletic, if Pugh can win the job at RT we have a real plus. He is athletic with great feet. He won't need as much help in pass protection from TEs. Our Oline was ok last year in pass protection and solid in the run game.

Sure Myers isn't in the same class as Bennett as a blocker, but he is a much better receiving weapon.

Randle will be better, plus Murphy adds a legit deep threat. Once Cruz is back, we have so many options for Eli to use.

What I really like is that while our offense is potentially very lethal, no-one is talking about it. :)

All we need is a solid defense, and quite frankly I have every expectation that will happen.

What I really like is that the players (and Coughlin) seem hungry and willing to work hard. They have that edge they didn't seemed to have last year and the competition will help hone it.

I am expecting big things this year.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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What I like actually is that retooling the Oline and bolstering our receiving weapons and a Wilson/Brown running game should help make our already explosive offense even better.

The Olinemen we have are more athletic, if Pugh can win the job at RT we have a real plus. He is athletic with great feet. He won't need as much help in pass protection from TEs. Our Oline was ok last year in pass protection and solid in the run game.

Sure Myers isn't in the same class as Bennett as a blocker, but he is a much better receiving weapon.

Randle will be better, plus Murphy adds a legit deep threat. Once Cruz is back, we have so many options for Eli to use.

What I really like is that while our offense is potentially very lethal, no-one is talking about it. :)

All we need is a solid defense, and quite frankly I have every expectation that will happen.

What I really like is that the players (and Coughlin) seem hungry and willing to work hard. They have that edge they didn't seemed to have last year and the competition will help hone it.

I am expecting big things this year.


Well I been toying or interested in the idea of:

Beatty-Pugh-Baas-Snee-Brewer


I would like to see that.. Let's see the weapon aspect of it. I think MB is a better talent and could have developed further. The issue is for me is we are musical chairs so we don't have time to develop them. I hope Myers can be good. However, I hope AR is the main guy. I am most looking forward to seeing him play. HE has to be effective.

In fact, I was thinking about this in couple hours ago. I want to see the younger guys play! Austin, JJ, Brown, Wilson, AR, Moore, Pugh, and hankins.

Play them! I don't want redshirts. I think Reese realized this too in his presser saying that those days are gone. Teams are drafting for guys to play right away. We are seeing this with QBs.

He even said he expected 1-3 round draft picks to contribute.

I want to see our draft classes contribute. Is Mark H. useless? How long are we waiting on him? Depth is one thing, but if the guy is a player we expect I want to see them. It's not like I expected much from Reggie Torbor or someone like that. However, play these guys and let's see what happens.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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i don't think we can bench boothe though. he was like, our best OL last season, wasn't he?
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Pugh is not gonna play this year. Maybe like game 12. We never start rookies, I don't now why that would change this year.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Because our OL isn't god like. Our OL is average and they can't stay healthy. It's the walking wounded. Snee, Baas, David D, and Sean. L. All 4 were hurt. I have to think Pugh, who is very smart, can beat our someone. That competition will be at all spots.

Not to mention RT is still wide open.

David D, Brewer or Pugh.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Pugh is not gonna play this year. Maybe like game 12. We never start rookies, I don't now why that would change this year.
Never? I think perhaps unlikely is better.
I am pretty sure guys like Eli, Snee, Wilson, Nicks, Phillips all started some as rookies.

Pugh is a chance to start, Coughlin has mentioned he is ready to contribute right away. He will have to beat out guys like Diehl and Brewer which may not be easy.

But we will see what happens through the offseason process, if Pugh is good enough, he will play.

I am not sure he will be a starter on opening day, but I would not be surprised if he is starting sooner rather than later.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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I am not sure he will be a starter on opening day, but I would not be surprised if he is starting sooner rather than later.
This is what I was implying.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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the best players will play, and if Pugh embodies that, he'll play. Coughlin typically doesn't play rookies b.c they do not understand the system and playbook as well as the vets. If Pugh grasps it quickly, he'll play.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:55 AM    (permalink
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This Cox fella reminds me of Brandon Jacobs. Out of the 3 late round guys, I think he's the one who has the best chance of sticking. He's big and he's a great pass protector. One of Jacob's most underrated characteristics was how dominant he was in pass protection. His sheer size allowed him to be like an extra OLmen out there in the backfield.

Cox gives us that size again. And Cox has good speed and he can catch as well. His lack of production was from running behind a terrible OL. It remains to be seen how great his vision is, but I think he has a good chance of making it on our roster as our 3rd RB on the depth chart.

Cooper is gonna be redshirted most likely. I see Sash getting the axe as long as Cooper can show up on special teams.

I'm a Nassib fan, I'm actually excited to see him in the preseason and see how he looks.

I think the 3 players that excite me the most for PS is Moore, Nassib, and Cox. I really want to see what those 3 can do.

I just don't like Hankins. I know I'm in the minority on that, but the more I think about it, the more I hate that pick.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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I like the idea of Hankins. If we're going to have interchangeable parts at linebacker, let's have some big run stuffing DTs to keep the linebackers clean. The pick also screams that Austin is lost in my opinion.

Also, I don't know why I feel this way, but I can see Joseph eventually being that guy we want to keep but can't because of the cap.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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Hankins is going to help us stop the run better and keep Joseph more fresh. It's a win win. The defense will be better when they start to get teams in more passing downs. It all starts there.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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I can see Joseph being gone bc of the cap. Which goes back to what I'm saying: nose tackles aren't valuable enough to invest high in, which is why we probably won't keep Joseph around, so why invest so high in the draft on one?

We could have gotten Jenkins in the 3rd who would be the same player, arguably better.

The value just doesn't match the selection. I feel that way about our first 2 rounds honestly, but I like Pugh and had him on my list so I don't knock that selection.

But we definitely went with need more than value in the first 2 rounds.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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I know that Fewell wants to 2 gap with his DTs. So perhaps he's going exclusively with 2 NTs up front who both 2 gap?

Seattle has a similar system with their beef up front, but Seattle mixes and matches and uses a lot of Over and Under fronts as well. If we go heavy up front with both DTs acting as 2 gap NTs, and use a lot of Over and Under with Kiwi as our Joker, then I can understand this move.

But like Seattle, we'd have to use a Leo, which I'd imagine would be JPP, and run a lot of single high looks and press man.

The problem with that is:

1. We don't have Seattle's CBs
2. We don't have a FS who can defend the post anymore with KP gone.
3. We don't have an elephant.

So it'll be interesting to see how multiple we are up front, but I just don't like it. I like the Wade Phillips style of 1 gap defense, where you overwhelm the gaps with penetrators. That fits our personnel better than the 2 gap/1 gap multiple formation look. It's too complex. Keep it simple for the players.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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I can see Joseph being gone bc of the cap. Which goes back to what I'm saying: nose tackles aren't valuable enough to invest high in, which is why we probably won't keep Joseph around, so why invest so high in the draft on one?

We could have gotten Jenkins in the 3rd who would be the same player, arguably better.

The value just doesn't match the selection. I feel that way about our first 2 rounds honestly, but I like Pugh and had him on my list so I don't knock that selection.

But we definitely went with need more than value in the first 2 rounds.
Yeah I can definitely see that as a replacement pick also. The 1 year they're definitely together is going to show how important having those run stuff DT's are though. NT's are certainly valuable but maybe we tried to work out an extension with Joseph and Reese thinks he's outpricing himself. It's no surprise we brought in some much DT help this year after the way we were thin there last year.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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I know that Fewell wants to 2 gap with his DTs. So perhaps he's going exclusively with 2 NTs up front who both 2 gap?

Seattle has a similar system with their beef up front, but Seattle mixes and matches and uses a lot of Over and Under fronts as well. If we go heavy up front with both DTs acting as 2 gap NTs, and use a lot of Over and Under with Kiwi as our Joker, then I can understand this move.

But like Seattle, we'd have to use a Leo, which I'd imagine would be JPP, and run a lot of single high looks and press man.

The problem with that is:

1. We don't have Seattle's CBs
2. We don't have a FS who can defend the post anymore with KP gone.
3. We don't have an elephant.

So it'll be interesting to see how multiple we are up front, but I just don't like it. I like the Wade Phillips style of 1 gap defense, where you overwhelm the gaps with penetrators. That fits our personnel better than the 2 gap/1 gap multiple formation look. It's too complex. Keep it simple for the players.
I don't know what Fewell has up his sleeve but I like the talent brought in on D. We need to get those trenches strong again and I really think all the DT help is going to allow us to do that. It's going to also free up the DE's big time. Cullen Jenkins will still be that penetrator from the middle and doubtful but maybe Austin finally does that as well.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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I think one question we need to have answered is what is our philosophy in the middle?

Now in the past, Fewell has stated that his DTs 2 gap. Both of them. He doesn't belief in the 3 tech. He wants both of his DTs to play 2 gaps, and he wants to form a wall up front against the run.

He adjusted this to allow for a 3 tech in 2011 and 2012. And our run defense suffered in comparison to 2010. So it could very well mean that we're going back to having 2 gapping DTs with no 3 tech for next year.

And if that's the case, then using both Hankins and Joseph makes sense, and it explains why Hankins was so high on our board, bc our DTs would be graded on how well they can 2 gap, and the 3 techs on our board would get pushed way down bc we're not looking for that.

That's my guess right now, but I don't agree with it.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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I don't know what Fewell has up his sleeve but I like the talent brought in on D. We need to get those trenches strong again and I really think all the DT help is going to allow us to do that. It's going to also free up the DE's big time. Cullen Jenkins will still be that penetrator from the middle and doubtful but maybe Austin finally does that as well.
A lot of teams now are using multiple gap strategy, where they mix 2 gap and 1 gap principles, and based on formation, down and distance, will use a combination of gap assignments to confuse protection and run blocking schemes.

They further elaborate on this with a lot of over and under fronts, both in the base and nickel.

I think Fewell is doing this, and getting away from exclusive 1 gap strategies and saving them for 3rd down only. Which makes our defense very multiple, and personnel dependent in strategy.

The problem with that is, with teams using a lot of no huddle, and speeding up the tempo btw huddles, being so multiple and personnel dependent in your fronts presents a serious flaw:

If a team catches you in a front that they can expose, they can keep that front on the field and attack it. So really, the best way to combat this is to streamline your fronts, and being flexible with your personnel, allowing for multiple fronts out of the same personnel.

The Giants aren't doing that. They're being specific with front and personnel. That's gonna present a problem vs up tempo offenses.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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I think one question we need to have answered is what is our philosophy in the middle?

Now in the past, Fewell has stated that his DTs 2 gap. Both of them. He doesn't belief in the 3 tech. He wants both of his DTs to play 2 gaps, and he wants to form a wall up front against the run.

He adjusted this to allow for a 3 tech in 2011 and 2012. And our run defense suffered in comparison to 2010. So it could very well mean that we're going back to having 2 gapping DTs with no 3 tech for next year.

And if that's the case, then using both Hankins and Joseph makes sense, and it explains why Hankins was so high on our board, bc our DTs would be graded on how well they can 2 gap, and the 3 techs on our board would get pushed way down bc we're not looking for that.

That's my guess right now, but I don't agree with it.
I think it's changing. The mantra the whole offseason from owner to coach was we need to stop the run again and get tougher inside the trenches. I think they're going to adjust to allow this to happen. I also think a strong push up the middle will help with the read option offenses we're going to be seeing plenty of.

Not the best comparison but doesn't Saban like the 2 NT look playing the 2 gap?
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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I think it's changing. The mantra the whole offseason from owner to coach was we need to stop the run again and get tougher inside the trenches. I think they're going to adjust to allow this to happen. I also think a strong push up the middle will help with the read option offenses we're going to be seeing plenty of.

Not the best comparison but doesn't Saban like the 2 NT look playing the 2 gap?
I'm thinking more like the 2000 Ravens defense. Or what the Jags did under Coughlin with Henderson and Stroud.

Edge pressure, with a wall in the middle, with 1 gapping LBs filling the holes. And Cover 2 and Cover 3 behind it.

Which means less blitzing. We're probably gonna rush 4 70% of the time. Yay.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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With Perry's blitzes it's like we're rushing 4 anyway. I've never seen blitzes start from so far away.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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With Perry's blitzes it's like we're rushing 4 anyway. I've never seen blitzes start from so far away.
Yeah he's awful. And he acts like blitzing the A gap is a crime.

That's why Spags was so good for us. We have plenty of edge pressure already, so he focused on the A gap and it was a perfect marriage.

Fewell...I just hate him so much.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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The worst part about Fewell is disguise though. He's not very good at disguising our fronts. It's like Hey guys! This is what we're doing and this is where we're coming from!

And the qb is just like oh thank you. Completion to the hot.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Fewell created the H gap and that's where we love to send them.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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He also likes using the same guy over and over again as his designated blitzer, making it easy for the QB to identify the Mike.

So long story short, we're gonna suck on defense again.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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The only positive I can take out of this is we get to see a lot of the young talent and see who if any emerges. I expect Tracy, Ojomo, Moore, Will Hill, Brown, Hosely, JWill, maybe Herzlich all to get a lot more opportunity to establish a rotation for themselves.

Out of those names, I'm expecting Tracy, Moore, JWill, Hosely, and Will Hill to emerge.

I don't believe in Ojomo, Brown, or Herzlich.

And if Hosely and Prince don't take the next step, we're in big big trouble on defense. Like, huge trouble.

Gigantic trouble.

Same with Brown/Hill at Safety.
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