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Old 05-02-2013, 11:24 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
a tebow highlight video, consisting mostly of run plays and you ask if i forgot about those GAMES? and then you try to tell me that he threw well against miami (13/27), KC (2/8, then 6/22), SD (4/10, 9/18) and compound the error by suggesting he threw well against denver when he was on denver for two years, then never played them in NY? and the pittsburgh game? really? when he had ONE good throw?

if a guy isn't given a chance to play qb, it's likely because he isn't as good as the starter. the fact he couldn't outduel sanchez should speak volumes. instead, everyone, including you, wants to turn it into some coaching failure, like tebow might've been really, really amazing if he'd just been given one more chance. he got his chance. he showed he's a pretty good facsimile of a bowling ball, with roughly equivalent passing ability.
NO YOU'RE WRONG!

TEBOW!

I want him to start SO bad! SOOO BAD! I love Tebow. I want him to start for the Jaguars and just take the league by storm.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Watching some highlight reels of Calvillo, I could definitely see him playing in the NFL. He's a far better QB than Tebow, that's for sure. Regardless, I think he's smart for never leaving the CFL, he probably would never have gotten past being a backup down here, but up there he's a major star.

Btw, while a few CFL qbs have excelled in the NFL, using Warren Moon as an example is a bit misleading. He was the victim of the NFL bias against black QBs, rather than a lack of skill.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Some day Hollywood will make a movie about Warren Moon.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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I wonder how Warren Moon sees Tebow?

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Hall of Famer Warren Moon said in a radio interview Wednesday that the Canadian Football League is not a viable option for Tim Tebow to prove he can play quarterback, as the former Heisman Trophy winner doesn't throw the ball well enough to play in the league.

"You have to be able to throw the ball up there, if anything. They throw the ball a lot. It's only three downs, so the passing game is much more important up there, and there's a lot more field to cover," Moon said in an interview with KILT-AM in Houston.

"If you can't throw the football, it doesn't matter where you play quarterback," he said. "You have to be able to throw it. That's his biggest problem, just being able to complete passes, be an accurate passer.
Pretty much what everyone here has stated repeatedly. Tebow is not a quarterback. Pure and simple.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Watching some highlight reels of Calvillo, I could definitely see him playing in the NFL. He's a far better QB than Tebow, that's for sure. Regardless, I think he's smart for never leaving the CFL, he probably would never have gotten past being a backup down here, but up there he's a major star.

Btw, while a few CFL qbs have excelled in the NFL, using Warren Moon as an example is a bit misleading. He was the victim of the NFL bias against black QBs, rather than a lack of skill.
Doug Williams was the #17 overall pick that same year. With what he did in college it is strange he wasn't drafted but I think the race card is overplayed here. He was years ahead of the game back then and today would be a Top 10 pick any given year because of the evolution of the game.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Good QB's take way too much blame, and bad QB's get way too many excuses.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that his problem is throwing.It reading defense and making the right reads down the field. Sure his motion is a bit sloppy . No one has a perfect throwing motion Kaepernick , nah. Stafford nah,Culter nah , hmm who else ? Rivers nah. It's all about reading the defense.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Doug Williams was the #17 overall pick that same year. With what he did in college it is strange he wasn't drafted but I think the race card is overplayed here. He was years ahead of the game back then and today would be a Top 10 pick any given year because of the evolution of the game.
Yeah, I've always been a tad skeptical of the whole "Warren Moon went the CFL because of racism!" storyline. He's an all-time great who's still underrated, but he's not the only all-time great to be overlooked by coaches and scouts. Johnny Unitas was cut by the Steelers, Tom Brady and Bart Starr were drafted at 199 and 200, Warner almost didn't even make the league. I could go on and on.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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There a lot of guys that have had better arms than Pennington that were terrible in the NFL.

Either way, that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have had a successful stint in the NFL if he was given the chance. Jeff Garcia also had limited arm strength, but had a pretty decent NFL career.

If he had been given a chance, maybe he would have sucked like Casey Printers, but I'm just saying you never know.
Calvillo had a chance. He worked out with a few different teams. His best chance came with the Steelers before they drafted Roethlisberger. He was hoping to get a shot as a backup to Tommy Maddox. The Steelers ended up signing Charlie Batch instead.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that his problem is throwing.It reading defense and making the right reads down the field. Sure his motion is a bit sloppy . No one has a perfect throwing motion Kaepernick , nah. Stafford nah,Culter nah , hmm who else ? Rivers nah. It's all about reading the defense.
Just stop it....just stop.




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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I've always been a tad skeptical of the whole "Warren Moon went the CFL because of racism!" storyline. He's an all-time great who's still underrated, but he's not the only all-time great to be overlooked by coaches and scouts. Johnny Unitas was cut by the Steelers, Tom Brady and Bart Starr were drafted at 199 and 200, Warner almost didn't even make the league. I could go on and on.
I was a kid at the time, in fact that Washington-Michigan Rose Bowl was the first college football game I remember watching. At the time I asked my Dad if Warren Moon would become the QB of the Seahawks when he finished college. (I didn't understand the draft and thought that you "graduated" to the local pro team after college). My dad's response was, "No...black people aren't smart enough to be a quarterback in the NFL." I have talked with my dad about it as an adult and he feels horrible that he ever said such a thing. He really didn't mean anything hurtful when he said it; it was just the prevailing thought among white people at the time, especially those who lived in all white areas. And it was what he grew up hearing from his dad. So I do believe that there was that common thought during the '70s. There were still schools in America that had yet to desegregate. And, just like what we have today with the *** players, there were probably a lot of teams that didn't feel that way, but none of them wanted to be the first.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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To this day I still have no idea who that was supposed to go to, other than any of four Panthers' defenders.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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It really bugs me how some people are in denial that racism was and is a real phenomenon in American society, and was too in the NFL.
(And maybe still is if your skin is pale but your game is cornerback/RB).

Is this revisionist history among other football fans about Warren Moon common?? That it wasn't racism that caused a Pac 10 POTY with a cannon arm, 6'3/215# and mobile not to be drafted in a 12 rounds??

We're talking TWELVE DAMN ROUNDS in 1978.
Acknowledging racism doesn't make someone racist by association because of their own race. It provides a baseline for what the current generation believes is acceptable behavior going forward, and conversely what we will never tolerate collectively in society.

I never knew Doug Williams was drafted in the first round of the same draft in 1978. That should be a future ESPN 30 for 30 segment.

I'd really love to talk to the GMs and owners from that period and find out what the thinking was on these two prospects.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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It really bugs me how some people are in denial that racism was and is a real phenomenon in American society, and was too in the NFL.
(And maybe still is if your skin is pale but your game is cornerback/RB).

Is this revisionist history among other football fans about Warren Moon common?? That it wasn't racism that caused a Pac 10 POTY with a cannon arm, 6'3/215# and mobile not to be drafted in a 12 rounds??

We're talking TWELVE DAMN ROUNDS in 1978.
Acknowledging racism doesn't make someone racist by association because of their own race. It provides a baseline for what the current generation believes is acceptable behavior going forward, and conversely what we will never tolerate collectively in society.

I never knew Doug Williams was drafted in the first round of the same draft in 1978. That should be a future ESPN 30 for 30 segment.

I'd really love to talk to the GMs and owners from that period and find out what the thinking was on these two prospects.
I totally agree. There were a few people who actually spoke their mind back then, but the issue was so touchy that they ended up getting fired for it, so no one said what they really thought. Jimmy the Greek got fired for saying that blacks were better athletes because slave owners paired their strongest slaves together. Who knows if this is true or not? I don't...I suppose it could be true, but I don't know because rather than saying, "Wow, is this true? Let's find out!" they just said, "You can't say that, you're fired."

And by the way, I never knew Williams was drafted that same year either.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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A Doug Williams/Warren Moon 30 for 30 documentary would be awesome.

I certainly have no problem believing that racism was a factor, but I don't know to what extent. It was before my time, so I just don't know. What I do know is that I watched him play lights-out football when he was already an old man, and he might have become the NFL's all-time leading passer if he had gone straight to the NFL rather than having to go to Canada.

Looking at his numbers and game footage, he should be a lot higher on most people's QB lists.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Moon could slang that ball. If he says Tebow can't play in the CFL, I believe him

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Old 05-02-2013, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that his problem is throwing.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Watching some highlight reels of Calvillo, I could definitely see him playing in the NFL. He's a far better QB than Tebow, that's for sure. Regardless, I think he's smart for never leaving the CFL, he probably would never have gotten past being a backup down here, but up there he's a major star.

Btw, while a few CFL qbs have excelled in the NFL, using Warren Moon as an example is a bit misleading. He was the victim of the NFL bias against black QBs, rather than a lack of skill.
Here is a great article on Calvillo from a couple of years back.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...arterback-ever
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
Calvillo had a chance. He worked out with a few different teams. His best chance came with the Steelers before they drafted Roethlisberger. He was hoping to get a shot as a backup to Tommy Maddox. The Steelers ended up signing Charlie Batch instead.
Yeah I read about that. I think it was close to a decade ago that the Steelers decided to resign Batch instead. He had meetings with the Seahawks and Jaguars too, but it wasn't really an opportunity, just a "meet and greet" as he called it. Apparently the Steelers would have signed him as a backup if Charlie decided to leave via free agency.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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You guys are taking away Tebow's thread here. It's not talk about old Qb's thread. but ok .
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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You guys are taking away Tebow's thread here. It's not talk about old Qb's thread. but ok .
Tebow doesn't deserve a thread here, he doesn't even have a job.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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Tebow doesn't deserve a thread here, he doesn't even have a job.
He will soon don't worry. Browns still need a QB he could beat out Weeden no doubt.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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He will soon don't worry. Browns still need a QB he could beat out Weeden no doubt.
No, he really couldn't.
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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weeden has viable arm strength and he's really not all that inaccurate, his problem was he makes some pretty terrible reads (and he's 30 in his second season). tebow has a 50% spiral rate.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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weeden has viable arm strength and he's really not all that inaccurate, his problem was he makes some pretty terrible reads (and he's 30 in his second season). tebow has a 50% spiral rate.
Tebow throws kickoffs. 50% is awful generous.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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