Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2014 NFL Draft Forum

2014 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2014 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-02-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
Sportsfan486
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,857
Reputation: 469682
Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sportsfan486 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
What makes Patton THAT good? I mean, i realize he's a good "value" pick in Round 4 (based on what we know so far, NFL career's a different story). But on every board i go to people are lauding it as a huge steal, the steal of the draft, etc.
He gets a pretty good grade in every area and has elite potential (obviously not there yet or he'd have been a first rounder) in a couple, notably hands and route running.

Very well rounded with legit #1 potential, although he probably lacks the explosiveness in any one area to be a truly elite #1.

I thought he had much fewer question marks than any other receiver in the draft. Just also had less exclamation marks or things that really pop out at you.
__________________


When being a fanboi goes too far.
Sportsfan486 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 05:28 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,440
Reputation: 122376
bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

My Bucs fan pick: Jonathon Banks 2nd round. I think that was great value for him. Very good cover CB who can press WRs. Senior year was a bit of a drop off, however, his sophomore and jr tape is very good, worthy of a 1st rounder. I think the injury in senior year and his 40 time dropped him .

But one of my favorite value picks: Kasheem Greene. That might be a steal. I really like him and the Bears got him in round 4. I had him in some drafts going late 1st early to mid 2nd at the latest. Dude is going to be a baller and can play weak side backer or MLB.

It sucks that so many teams pass on guys because of 40 times. I mean, Richard Sherman ran what, a 4.57. ???? Some guys dont break out of track stances quicker than others.
bucfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 06:18 AM    (permalink
BigBanger
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: D.C. Chillin
Posts: 1,724
Reputation: 706082
BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

My Favorite / Best Value Picks of Round 1


Round 1 - Pick 24 - Indianapolis Colts - Bjoern Werner, DE, Flordia St

Apparently I'm of the few that never changed on Werner. I think this is incredible value at the end of round 1 and I think he's going to be better than every pass rusher that went in the Top 10 of this draft. His vision and awareness are simply at an elite level. I think he can play the run well, and when he develops his technique he can develop into complete football player. I had a Top 5 grade on him and I consider him the second best DL prospect in this draft (Sheldon Richardson). If he had a better motor, I'd have Werner a little higher.


Round 1 - Pick 25 - Minnesota Vikings - Xavier Rhodes, CB, Flordia St

I'm not so sure about the scheme fit, but Rhodes was my favorite CB in this draft (barely edging out DJ Hayden). Rhodes is a height, weight, speed guy and they are all beyond ideal. He's physical against the run and with his jam. He's a press corner and very good at disrupting routes. I really like his potential to be a shut down corner. I gave Rhodes a Top 10 grade. DJ Hayden (My #2 ranked CB) might wind up being the better CB from this draft (if he plays up to his potential after the injury) due to his ball skills and playmaking ability. I like the value at pick 25, but I'm not so sure how well he fits into the Vikings system.


Round 1 - Pick 26 - Green Bay Packers - Datone Jones, DE, UCLA

Rhodes might not be a perfect in Minnesota, but Jones is exactly that in Green Bay. He's going to develop into a potential double digit sack end in the 34. His hands are as violent and heavy as any pass rusher in this draft. His quickness and power is very impressive and he's only scratching the surface of his potential. I think Jones is going to turn into a dominant player. Another guy who I had a Top 10 grade and my #2 DE in this draft. Becuse I think this is such good value and such a perfect fit, I would pick this selection as being the best value pick of Round 1.


Round 1 - Pick 32 - Baltimore Ravens - Matt Elam, S, Flordia

Elam might be my favorite player in this draft. His instincts and closing speed are simply unreal. He is a downhill player and I can understand why he fell to the end of Round 1. Elam will struggle early against the pass and he's much more comfortable going forward then he is dropping into zones. But if his pass defense can gradually match up to his ability to make impact against the run or screen passes / short passes, then he's going to turn into one of the best safeties in the NFL. He's an impact player. My #2 ranked DB.




My Favorite / Best Value Picks of Round 2



Round 2 - Pick 33 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Johnathan Cyprien, S, Flordia International

Cyprien is my favorite DB in this entire draft and I have a Top 5 grade on him. I was surprised he was never pushed up into the 1st Round or viewed as a Top 20 talent like Kenny Vacarro and Eric Reid were. When I watched him at the Senior Bowl he simpy stood out like an elite prospect. He started gaining recognition, but his small school might have stopped him from really being selected as high as talent suggests. I love his range and toughness. I think he can play down in the box or deep in zones. This might be the best pick of the entire draft. In a class with a lot of talented safeties I think Cyprien is going to stand out from this class in another five years.


Round 2 - Pick 56 - Baltimore Ravens - Arthur Brown, ILB, Kansas State


Both of the Ravens first two picks made my list of best value picks and that's typically what the Ravens do. Somehow find a way to capitalize on other teams mistakes. Brown has as much potential as any defensive player in this draft. His speed and quickness is phenomenal. His ability to read and react is great and he can attack behind the line of scrimmage. He's still raw and doesn't play within the defense, but when he guesses right, he looks as good as any LB I've ever seen. I'm not at all worried about his size. He's a great athlete with potential through the roof. He'll struggle early with run fits, but by year three, I'd be surpsied if the Ravens don't develop one of the best 34 ILBs in the game.


Round 2 - Pick 62 - Sattle Seahawks - Christine Michael, RB, Texas A&M

Everyone likes to talk about Eddie Lacy (taken just one pick before this), but Michael, the fourth RB taken in 2013 draft, is the most talented RB in this draft class. He's also the most explosive. I understand that calling him the best RB from this class isn't necessarily the greatest compliment in the world compared to other draft classes, but Michael is a legitamate first round talent. His size / power is just as impressive as Lacy, maybe even more so. He might have dropped in the draft for other reasons off the field (and health), but getting a first round talent @ the RB with the last pick of the 2nd Round... and when three (3) other RBs were taken in round 2... that's value.




My Favorite / Best Value Picks of Round 3


Round 3 - Pick 63 - Kansas City Chiefs - Travis Kelce, TE, Cincinnati

I'm trying to figure out what Kelce is misssing. What part of his games makes him a 3rd Rounder? He's the most compete TE in this draft. He blocks... like really well. And he can, and he can run after the catch... like really well. I think his potential is of a 1st round draft pick, which is where I have him graded. I think he's the best TE in this draft. Size, speed... he's one talented 3rd round.


Round 3 - Pick 64 - Detroit Lions - Larry Warford, OG, Kentucky

The Lions needed this. They can't rely on Matt Stafford setting passing attempts records every other seasons. They have no running game or push in the middle of the field. Warford is road grader and simply a great value pick. I thought he could have went in the 1st Round. In my opinion he's the #3 OG in this draft. Played a lot of top level competition and not only did he beat talented interior players, he dominanted most of them. He's going to a Pro Bowl caliber OG.


Round 3 - Pick 76 - San Deigo Chargers - Keenan Allen, WR, Cal

People compare Allen's game to Aquan Boldin (everyone that is physical gets compared to Boldin), but I don't really see any comparison other than the fact they slipped in the draft. Their on field production screams of a 1st round talent yet their 40 times hurt their draft stocks. Allen is my #3 WR from this class and I gave him a late 1st Round grade. I think he'll fit in well with Philip Rivers. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but I do believe he's a 1,000 yard reciever. And getting one of those in round 3? I'd consider that good value.


Note: The New Orleans Saints picked Terron Armstead @ #75 overall... I don't know much about Armstead, but from watching the highlights and watching him move in space... pretty impressive. When I couple that with the Saint's track record for producing top tier offensive linemen from the middle rounds or late rounds... I immediately like Armstead's chances of becoming a quality LT.



My Favorite / Best Value Picks of Round 4


Round 4 - Pick 103 - Arizona Cardinals - Alex Okafor, DE, Texas

I think the Cardinals had a really good draft and Okafor in round 4 might be their best value pick. They added a lot of players to their defense and Okafor should develop into a good rotational player two or three years from now. I thought the third round was we're Okafor was going to go.


Round 4 - Pick 105 - Buffalo Bills - Duke Williams, S, Nevada

Good size and speed combination. And he jumped out during games. He can lay some good hits and he seems to play faster than everyone else around him. Off the field issues seem to have hurt his stock, but he looked good at the Senior Bowl and showed a lot of promise in man coverage. Very good against the run. A good amount of potential and he could develop into a nice compliment to Byrd if they manage to retain him.


Round 4 - Pick 107 - Tennessee Titans - Brian Schwenke, C, Cal

Arguably this is the best center in the draft and one of my favorite offensive line prospects from this draft. I think the importance of the center position is downplayed and Schwenke is, at worst, a second round talent. The Titans cap off a great offseason bolstering their offensive line by signing Levitre in Free Agency and drafting Warmack in round 1. I think Schwenke can start from Day 1.


Round 4 - Pick 127 - Atlanta Falcons - Malliciah Goodman, DE, Clemson

I like the player and I really like the fit. Goodman is more of a swing DE in a rotation, but he has a long frame and excellent pass rushing instincts. This is exactly the kind of player you look for in the third round; for the Falcons to select him late in the 4th... It's just great value. Low risk / high reward pick.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

Last edited by BigBanger : 05-03-2013 at 07:32 AM.
BigBanger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 07:16 AM    (permalink
brasho
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,115
Reputation: 76817
brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shere Khan View Post
Cincinnati Bengals

Margus Hunt, DE, SMU

Sure, he's raw and has yet to refine the nuances of playing the Defensive End position, but he's a world class athelete, with eye-popping measurables and the Olympian-Caliber work ethic to develop into a top-notch defensive player.

As a special teams bounus, This guy blocked 17 kicks in college, that's staggering.

If he can use that same timing and instinct to block passes at the line, look out.
I think the most important measurable for Hunt is the number 26, as in his age. For the past 4 seasons he's been a man playing against boys... yes, merely playing, not dominating. Now he'll be a man playing with other men. I don't expect much, if anything, from him. Still, if there was one organization he could go to, the Bengals are HUGE on measurables. Michael Johnson, Geno Atkins, Dontay Moch were absolutely physical freaks at the their combines and only Moch has failed to produce. If anybody could get anything out of the "Softy from Estonia", it would be the Bengals. He'll most likely be the backup backup this season, and this next season he could be the backup.. hopefully for him, he'll be starting when he's 29-30.
brasho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 08:16 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,103
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
My Favorite / Best Value Picks of Round 1


Round 1 - Pick 24 - Indianapolis Colts - Bjoern Werner, DE, Flordia St

Apparently I'm of the few that never changed on Werner. I think this is incredible value at the end of round 1 and I think he's going to be better than every pass rusher that went in the Top 10 of this draft. His vision and awareness are simply at an elite level. I think he can play the run well, and when he develops his technique he can develop into complete football player. I had a Top 5 grade on him and I consider him the second best DL prospect in this draft (Sheldon Richardson). If he had a better motor, I'd have Werner a little higher.


Round 1 - Pick 25 - Minnesota Vikings - Xavier Rhodes, CB, Flordia St

I'm not so sure about the scheme fit, but Rhodes was my favorite CB in this draft (barely edging out DJ Hayden). Rhodes is a height, weight, speed guy and they are all beyond ideal. He's physical against the run and with his jam. He's a press corner and very good at disrupting routes. I really like his potential to be a shut down corner. I gave Rhodes a Top 10 grade. DJ Hayden (My #2 ranked CB) might wind up being the better CB from this draft (if he plays up to his potential after the injury) due to his ball skills and playmaking ability. I like the value at pick 25, but I'm not so sure how well he fits into the Vikings system.


Round 1 - Pick 26 - Green Bay Packers - Datone Jones, DE, UCLA

Rhodes might not be a perfect in Minnesota, but Jones is exactly that in Green Bay. He's going to develop into a potential double digit sack end in the 34. His hands are as violent and heavy as any pass rusher in this draft. His quickness and power is very impressive and he's only scratching the surface of his potential. I think Jones is going to turn into a dominant player. Another guy who I had a Top 10 grade and my #2 DE in this draft. Becuse I think this is such good value and such a perfect fit, I would pick this selection as being the best value pick of Round 1.


Round 1 - Pick 32 - Baltimore Ravens - Matt Elam, S, Flordia

Elam might be my favorite player in this draft. His instincts and closing speed are simply unreal. He is a downhill player and I can understand why he fell to the end of Round 1. Elam will struggle early against the pass and he's much more comfortable going forward then he is dropping into zones. But if his pass defense can gradually match up to his ability to make impact against the run or screen passes / short passes, then he's going to turn into one of the best safeties in the NFL. He's an impact player. My #2 ranked DB.




My Favorite / Best Value Picks of Round 2



Round 2 - Pick 33 - Jacksonville Jaguars - Johnathan Cyprien, S, Flordia International

Cyprien is my favorite DB in this entire draft and I have a Top 5 grade on him. I was surprised he was never pushed up into the 1st Round or viewed as a Top 20 talent like Kenny Vacarro and Eric Reid were. When I watched him at the Senior Bowl he simpy stood out like an elite prospect. He started gaining recognition, but his small school might have stopped him from really being selected as high as talent suggests. I love his range and toughness. I think he can play down in the box or deep in zones. This might be the best pick of the entire draft. In a class with a lot of talented safeties I think Cyprien is going to stand out from this class in another five years.


Round 2 - Pick 56 - Baltimore Ravens - Arthur Brown, ILB, Kansas State


Both of the Ravens first two picks made my list of best value picks and that's typically what the Ravens do. Somehow find a way to capitalize on other teams mistakes. Brown has as much potential as any defensive player in this draft. His speed and quickness is phenomenal. His ability to read and react is great and he can attack behind the line of scrimmage. He's still raw and doesn't play within the defense, but when he guesses right, he looks as good as any LB I've ever seen. I'm not at all worried about his size. He's a great athlete with potential through the roof. He'll struggle early with run fits, but by year three, I'd be surpsied if the Ravens don't develop one of the best 34 ILBs in the game.


Round 2 - Pick 62 - Sattle Seahawks - Christine Michael, RB, Texas A&M

Everyone likes to talk about Eddie Lacy (taken just one pick before this), but Michael, the fourth RB taken in 2013 draft, is the most talented RB in this draft class. He's also the most explosive. I understand that calling him the best RB from this class isn't necessarily the greatest compliment in the world compared to other draft classes, but Michael is a legitamate first round talent. His size / power is just as impressive as Lacy, maybe even more so. He might have dropped in the draft for other reasons off the field (and health), but getting a first round talent @ the RB with the last pick of the 2nd Round... and when three (3) other RBs were taken in round 2... that's value.




My Favorite / Best Value Picks of Round 3


Round 3 - Pick 63 - Kansas City Chiefs - Travis Kelce, TE, Cincinnati

I'm trying to figure out what Kelce is misssing. What part of his games makes him a 3rd Rounder? He's the most compete TE in this draft. He blocks... like really well. And he can, and he can run after the catch... like really well. I think his potential is of a 1st round draft pick, which is where I have him graded. I think he's the best TE in this draft. Size, speed... he's one talented 3rd round.


Round 3 - Pick 64 - Detroit Lions - Larry Warford, OG, Kentucky

The Lions needed this. They can't rely on Matt Stafford setting passing attempts records every other seasons. They have no running game or push in the middle of the field. Warford is road grader and simply a great value pick. I thought he could have went in the 1st Round. In my opinion he's the #3 OG in this draft. Played a lot of top level competition and not only did he beat talented interior players, he dominanted most of them. He's going to a Pro Bowl caliber OG.


Round 3 - Pick 76 - San Deigo Chargers - Keenan Allen, WR, Cal

People compare Allen's game to Aquan Boldin (everyone that is physical gets compared to Boldin), but I don't really see any comparison other than the fact they slipped in the draft. Their on field production screams of a 1st round talent yet their 40 times hurt their draft stocks. Allen is my #3 WR from this class and I gave him a late 1st Round grade. I think he'll fit in well with Philip Rivers. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but I do believe he's a 1,000 yard reciever. And getting one of those in round 3? I'd consider that good value.


Note: The New Orleans Saints picked Terron Armstead @ #75 overall... I don't know much about Armstead, but from watching the highlights and watching him move in space... pretty impressive. When I couple that with the Saint's track record for producing top tier offensive linemen from the middle rounds or late rounds... I immediately like Armstead's chances of becoming a quality LT.



My Favorite / Best Value Picks of Round 4


Round 4 - Pick 103 - Arizona Cardinals - Alex Okafor, DE, Texas

I think the Cardinals had a really good draft and Okafor in round 4 might be their best value pick. They added a lot of players to their defense and Okafor should develop into a good rotational player two or three years from now. I thought the third round was we're Okafor was going to go.


Round 4 - Pick 105 - Buffalo Bills - Duke Williams, S, Nevada

Good size and speed combination. And he jumped out during games. He can lay some good hits and he seems to play faster than everyone else around him. Off the field issues seem to have hurt his stock, but he looked good at the Senior Bowl and showed a lot of promise in man coverage. Very good against the run. A good amount of potential and he could develop into a nice compliment to Byrd if they manage to retain him.


Round 4 - Pick 107 - Tennessee Titans - Brian Schwenke, C, Cal

Arguably this is the best center in the draft and one of my favorite offensive line prospects from this draft. I think the importance of the center position is downplayed and Schwenke is, at worst, a second round talent. The Titans cap off a great offseason bolstering their offensive line by signing Levitre in Free Agency and drafting Warmack in round 1. I think Schwenke can start from Day 1.


Round 4 - Pick 127 - Atlanta Falcons - Malliciah Goodman, DE, Clemson

I like the player and I really like the fit. Goodman is more of a swing DE in a rotation, but he has a long frame and excellent pass rushing instincts. This is exactly the kind of player you look for in the third round; for the Falcons to select him late in the 4th... It's just great value. Low risk / high reward pick.
You really think that Christine Michael was a better pick than Menelik Watson in the second? Michael was at best ranked as a 3rd rounder, Watson was a first. Michael has character concerns, Watson does not. Finally, Watson fits a HUGE need, Michael does not.
__________________
Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

- Genius
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
BigBanger
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: D.C. Chillin
Posts: 1,724
Reputation: 706082
BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
You really think that Christine Michael was a better pick than Menelik Watson in the second? Michael was at best ranked as a 3rd rounder, Watson was a first. Michael has character concerns, Watson does not. Finally, Watson fits a HUGE need, Michael does not.
If anything, Watson was a "reach". Or, at best, not something that I look at and say, "Hey, the Raiders got great value." I don't particularly like calling picks reaches, or bad value picks because in the long run, "value" means next to nothing. It's a draft term that has no baring on future success or failure, which is why I prefaced those picks as some of my favorites... Players who went below the grade I gave them. The Watson pick doesn't jump out at me as a value pick. It's more of a need pick. The DJ Hayden pick? A value pick based on need.

Watson, from what I've seen, looks like a project. And I don't think you take a project in Round 2. I'd give him a 3rd Round grade based on his potential to be an above average starting right tackle. His game tape looks that of a 5th Rounder. His measurables and athletic ability / raw ability make his 5th Round tape excusable, but only to a degree.

I wouldn't start drafting raw players with a high bust factor until Round 3. Menelik Watson has a high bust factor for a second round pick. He doesn't have a clue what technique is, or how to apply it. Off the top of my head, I can't think of an OT that went this high that was this raw coming out. The Raiders drafted Bruce Campbell in 2010 in the 4th Round. He had similar game tape / and similar potential. And some thought Oakland could take him in Rounds 1 or 2 (a year removed from DHB and Mike Mttchell, so the speculation was merited).

Watson does have upside, yes, I get that, but people are talking about his athleticism and questioning if he can play LT. The guy hasn't even come close to learning right tackle at the college level, and some are already talking about a possible switch to left tackle in the pros? Because he's athletic? If there's one thing I hate about the draft it's stuff like that.

But I don't know much about him to be honest, and from what I remember of EJ Manuel (the year before - 2011), I never remember seeing Watson on the field, if he even started. He looks good in space for a guy his size, but he's so raw and so unpolished that I wouldn't consider him in Round 2. I don't see much of a difference between Terron Armstead and Menelik Watson (I have seen far less of Armstead). I think Armstead went where he should have gone and Watson went a little higher than he probably should have.

EDIT: Okay, I did a little research on him and found out that he transferred this year from the JUCO ranks. This was his first and only year starting at the D-I level. I'd be even more concerned with this pick to be honest. I know he was generally regarded as a second round prospect and one of the 5-7 best OTs in the draft, but his lack of experience is a little disconcerting just as it is promising. He has a lot of work to do. He plays tall and narrow (base). When he does move his feet and try to sink his hips; he ends up lunging and dropping his head. He's also slow off the ball and grabs a lot.

I'm not calling the Watson selection a bad pick, because if he turns into a quality RT, then it was a good pick. If he doesn't turn into a solid player, then the Raiders are going to look back and see a bunch of players picked directly behind them that could have helped their team. It certainly has the potential to be a good pick, but its a risky selection in my book. And I don't see high risk / high reward. I think it's high risk / medium reward. I can't see a future All-Pro or perennial Pro Bowl player. He's just too raw and has too many lapses in his game. I think he's going to get beat badly early in his career if he's starting from day 1; and penalized a lot. Plus I think he's going to miss blocking assignments (which he does at the college level, and looks lost sometimes). Another thing, he's already 24 years old. He turns 25 before the end of the year. That's a little old for a project who's only been playing football for two years.


So, yes, Michael at the very end of Round 2 is much a better pick in my mind. A) I think he's a better player with more production and a natural skill set for the position: he's proven. B) He has less of a bust factor (based soley on his game play), but as much potential as any RB from this class.

I understand the character concerns and I think Michael dropped for a reason, but I view him as the only first round talent at the RB position in this draft. Health and character concerns dropped him in the second for me, but when I consider the team he went to (Seattle), then I consider it a nearly perfect fit. If he was the 1st or 2nd RB taken, then I might not view it as a steal. I think he's going to be better than all three RBs that went before him.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

Last edited by BigBanger : 05-06-2013 at 04:41 AM.
BigBanger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 10:25 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,103
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
If anything, Watson was a "reach". Or, at best, not something that I look at and say, "Hey, the Raiders got great value." I don't particularly like calling picks reaches, or bad value picks because in the long run, "value" means next to nothing. It's a draft term that has no baring on future success or failure, which is why I prefaced those picks as some of my favorites... Players who went below the grade I gave them. The Watson pick doesn't jump out at me as a value pick. It's more of a need pick. The DJ Hayden pick? A value pick based on need.

Watson, from what I've seen, looks like a project. And I don't think you take a project in Round 2. I'd give him a 3rd Round grade based on his potential to be an above average starting right tackle. His game tape looks that of a 5th Rounder. His measurables and athletic ability / raw ability make his 5th Round tape excusable, but only to a degree.

I wouldn't start drafting raw players with a high bust factor until Round 3. Menelik Watson has a high bust factor for a second round pick. He doesn't have a clue what technique is, or how to apply it. Off the top of my head, I can't think of an OT that went this high that was this raw coming out. The Raiders drafted Bruce Campbell in 2010 in the 4th Round. He had similar game tape / and similar potential. And some thought Oakland could take him in Rounds 1 or 2 (a year removed from DHB and Mike Mttchell, so the speculation was merited).

Watson does have upside, yes, I get that, but people are talking about his athleticism and questioning if he can play LT. The guy hasn't even come close to learning right tackle at the college level, and some are already talking about a possible switch to left tackle in the pros? Because he's athletic? If there's one thing I hate about the draft it's stuff like that.

But I don't know much about him to be honest, and from what I remember of EJ Manuel (the year before - 2011), I never remember seeing Watson on the field, if he even started. He looks good in space for a guy his size, but he's so raw and so unpolished that I wouldn't consider him in Round 2. I don't see much of a difference between Terron Armstead and Menelik Watson (I have seen far less of Armstead). I think Armstead went where he should have gone and Watson went a little higher than he probably should have.

EDIT: Okay, I did a little research on him and found out that he transferred this year from the JUCO ranks. This was his first and only year starting at the D-I level. I'd be even more concerned with this pick to be honest. I know he was generally regarded as a second round prospect and one of the 5-7 best OTs in the draft, but his lack of experience is a little disconcerting just as it is promising. He has a lot of work to do. He plays tall and narrow (base). When he does move his feet and try to sink his hips; he ends up lunging and dropping his head. He's also slow off the ball and grabs a lot.

I'm not calling the Watson selection a bad pick, because if he turns into a quality RT, then it was a good pick. If he doesn't turn into a solid player, then the Raiders are going to look back and see a bunch of players picked directly behind them that could have helped their team. It certainly has the potential to be a good pick, but its a risky selection in my book. And I don't see high risk / high reward. I think it's high risk / medium reward. I can't see a future All-Pro or perennial Pro Bowl player. He's just too raw and has too many lapses in his game. I think he's going to get beat badly early in his career if he's starting from day 1; and penalized a lot. Plus I think he's going to miss blocking assignments (which he does at the college level, and looks lost sometimes). Another thing, he's already 24 years old. He turns 25 before the end of the year. That's a little old for a project who's only been playing football for two years.


So, yes, Michael at the very end of Round 2 is much a better pick in my mind. A) I think he's a better player with more production and a natural skill set for the position: he's proven. B) He has less of a bust factor (based soley on his game play), but as much potential as any RB from this class.

I understand the character concerns and I think Michael dropped for a reason, but I view him as the only first round talent at the RB position in this draft. Health and character concerns dropped him in the second for me, but when I consider the team he went to (Seattle), then I consider it a nearly perfect fit. If he was the 1st or 2nd RB taken, then I might not view it as a steal. I think he's going to be better than all three RBs that went before him.
The vast majority of draft heads had Watson as a first round pick, yet you are calling him a reach in the 2nd. You know that, right? On the other had, Michael was never once considered a 1st rounder.
__________________
Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

- Genius
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 08:59 PM    (permalink
BigBanger
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: D.C. Chillin
Posts: 1,724
Reputation: 706082
BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
The vast majority of draft heads had Watson as a first round pick, yet you are calling him a reach in the 2nd. You know that, right?
No. I did not know that. I've looked at some rankings and I see him consistently among the Top 10 OTs. That's about it.

I simply looked at his game footage. I certainly don't see a first round prospect and I don't care for him in round two. He looks more like a project who should go in rounds 3 or 4. That's my opinion. You asked me about him. I never brought him up. Do you want me to simply agree with you?

Quote:
On the other had, Michael was never once considered a 1st rounder.
I never said Michael was considered a 1st rounder. Did I?

You started this thread asking us to name our most valuable picks (regardless of round). I made a list of my favorite picks. Call them valuable, call them reaches, call them whatever you like, but in my opinion Christine Michael was one of my favorite picks of round 2.

I think Michael is as talented, even more so, than Eddie Lacy. I considered those to be the two best RBs in this draft. That is my opinion. I should emphasize that. My opinion. That's why I liked the pick of Michael. Both players have injury issues that drop their first round grade a notch. Michael has character concerns, which hurts even more, but both are talented players. Michael has talent and great athleticism / power.

I think Michael can be a feature back. Bernard looks like a complimentary RB. Bell looks a 4th Rounder. And Lacy is the only RB on Michael's caliber. So when I stack him up against the second round RBs, I like Michael a lot more than two of them. And I think he's more explosive with better speed than Lacy. I think he's the best RB in the draft because, to me, he looks like he's the most talented with promising upside.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

Last edited by BigBanger : 05-06-2013 at 09:19 PM.
BigBanger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 09:07 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,103
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
No. I did not know that.

I simply looked at his game footage. I certainly don't see a first round prospect and I don't care for him in round two. He looks more like a project who should go in rounds 3 or 4. That's my opinion. You asked me about him. I never brought him up. Do you want me to simply agree with you?


I never said Michael was considered a 1st rounder. Did I?

You started this thread asking us to name our most valuable picks (regardless of round). I made a list of my favorite picks. Call them valuable, call them reaches, call them whatever you like, but in my opinion Christine Michael was one of my favorite picks of round 2.

I think Michael is as talented, even more so, than Eddie Lacy. I considered those to be the two best RBs in this draft. That is my opinion. I should emphasize that. My opinion. That's why I liked the pick of Michael. Both players have injury issues that drop their first round grade a notch. Michael has character concerns, which hurts even more, but both are talented players. Michael has talent and great athleticism / power.

I think Michael can be a feature back. Bernard looks like a complimentary RB. Bell looks a 4th Rounder. And Lacy is the only RB on Michael's caliber. So when I stack him up against the second round RBs, I like Michael a lot more than two of them.
I don't get your attitude, but whatever. I wasn't trying to make you agree with me. I just asked if you knew what the consensus rating of the players were because it didn't seem that you did.
__________________
Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

- Genius
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
BigBanger
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: D.C. Chillin
Posts: 1,724
Reputation: 706082
BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BigBanger is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
I don't get your attitude, but whatever. I wasn't trying to make you agree with me. I just asked if you knew what the consensus rating of the players were because it didn't seem that you did.
I have a vague idea. The consensus is always wrong quite frequently.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

Last edited by BigBanger : 05-06-2013 at 09:23 PM.
BigBanger is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.